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Look at my edit above.
Heavy air assets doesnt mean necessary a specific plane or helicopter.
An Apache armed against armor is considered heavy air asset.

But Apache can also take a role of light anti-infantry asset. It has a flexible cannon and advanced targeting system for it.
While an F-16 cant be used to kill only "those two guys on the roof".

Also i dont limit you.
I tell you that you can use an Apache reallisticaly in insurgency.
But how you can use an F-16?

Actually A10s, F18s and similar are all used to bomb and strafe targets with their cannons.

Yes but what kind of targets?
Civillians armed with ak's and RPGs?
Inside the citys?
With so many unarmed people?
While Apaches can do it better and more precise?
(Remember we are talking about RL situations here. Not in game situations where the Apaches are afraid of the technical and not the opposite)

Jets + 90% Of PR Community That Are Retarded = Major Ticket Waste

Nemus wrote:Yes but what kind of targets?
Civillians armed with ak's and RPGs?
Inside the citys?
With so many unarmed people?
While Apaches can do it better and more precise?

Nemus you have allways had something against jets lol .. CAS planes would make insurgency rock, you spot the cache call in the airstrike and the BOOM cache is gone Maybe you should make it 15 caches if there are jets on the map

F18 20mm strafe.

LiveLeak.com - F-18 Hornet 20mm Strafe Attack On Taliban

JDAM from F18, in a build up area.

LiveLeak.com - A US F-18 takes out IED and group of insurgents in Ramadi, Iraq.


I doubt they just drop on anything, but when it comes to air support, you use what you have above you, be it an apache, kiowa A10 or F18...

Nemus wrote: While Apaches can do it better and more precise?

not always a apache about.

YouTube - f-16 straifing run

Ok, lets recap.

Problem 1 : Jets are too fast and sometimes too powerful to include in maps smaller then 4X4km, and are almost "phased out" by now.

Problem 2 : Baserape is mostly associated with jets. Allowing jets to fly outside of the combat zone disables shield domes and makes bases vulnerable.

Problem 3 : Manoeuvrability on jets is wonky. New players will often crash/die, and complaints of the old AA system are plentiful. Another type of AA is (as of now, and very limited in use) ZPU style weapons. New types need to be made.

Problem 4 : People want counters against aircraft, as in they "must" die. These assets cost tickets, and when the only counters are hard counters (There are no soft counters as there only is one type of lock-on), this causes much rage. It's kill or be killed, taken to a new level. Problem can be associated with problem 3.

Problem 5 : All problems together, people just want more jets and aircraft. More more and alot more. Seeming as the previous problems still exist, DEV's are doubtful of doing this until the main problems have been fixed.

I think that's all the ones we have, now we just need solutions :s

Alex6714 wrote:F18 20mm strafe.

LiveLeak.com - F-18 Hornet 20mm Strafe Attack On Taliban

JDAM from F18, in a build up area.

LiveLeak.com - A US F-18 takes out IED and group of insurgents in Ramadi, Iraq.


I doubt they just drop on anything, but when it comes to air support, you use what you have above you, be it an apache, kiowa A10 or F18...

LiveLeak.com - F18 strike in Karmah, Iraq

I disagree.
There are many players that they want to play realisticaly as Alex mentioned above.
The point is to have jets where they belong.

IRL maybe when the troops find the location of a cache to request a pinpoint missile strike to avoid casualties.
But find me a pilot in PR who can wait for a cache be founded by his teammates, fire a missile and then wait again for the next.
So in a 2-3 hours game the only that he does is to fire 4 missiles.
Maybe someone says tha he can do gun strafes to technicals.
Well if IRL the US Army takes off a fighter to destroy a technical then OK ... fold

MendozaMan wrote:Ok, lets recap.

Problem 1 : Jets are too fast and sometimes too powerful to include in maps smaller then 4X4km, and are almost "phased out" by now.

Well lets just stick to 4x4 maps then

Problem 2 : Baserape is mostly associated with jets. Allowing jets to fly outside of the combat zone disables shield domes and makes bases vulnerable.

Seriusly if you baserape on a decent server you will be banned for life and thats a fact .. i have never seen a jet baserape on PR ..

Problem 3 : Manoeuvrability on jets is wonky. New players will often crash/die, and complaints of the old AA system are plentiful. Another type of AA is (as of now, and very limited in use) ZPU style weapons. New types need to be made.

Learn to fly on training server its so easy once u know basis, and just stay over 1300 unless you got targets and no AA will take you down

Problem 4 : People want counters against aircraft, as in they "must" die. These assets cost tickets, and when the only counters are hard counters (There are no soft counters as there only is one type of lock-on), this causes much rage. It's kill or be killed, taken to a new level. Problem can be associated with problem 3.

There isnt only the lock on system, there are the AA guns in main bases like kashan qinling and muttrah

Problem 5 : All problems together, people just want more jets and aircraft. More more and alot more. Seeming as the previous problems still exist, DEV's are doubtful of doing this until the main problems have been fixed.

we only have 2 maps with jets, and since they are so usefull when lasing correctly they are a good thing for gameplay

Nemus wrote: Well if IRL the US Army takes off a fighter to destroy a technical then OK ... fold

like i said, there isnt always apache's about.... why wait when the above aircraft can also help out... it isnt always the US army who do it.

1) Alot of the problems mentioned are fixable. We have a new flare system, missile prox detonation, target pod cameras and other realted things in CA that fix alot of the problems people have. The code is there.

2) I don´t know why people have it in their head that aicraft are always hitting lases by infantry. They have very effective cameras and are not always responding to calls, but circling overhead and searching for targets themselves...

Alot of the time they will be called in via infantry, but it doesn´t mean a lase will be set p, it will be more like "enemy grid blah blah other side of the road etc" and the aircraft searches and kills them.

Example from the book Apache, where they went out after hearing of AAA fire from other aircraft in an area, Apache flew as decoy making noise, the other hid behind a hill and waited to fire. They did not get it that night, but got news that a harrier spotted and took it out himself after that.

Alex6714 wrote:"enemy grid blah blah other side of the road etc"t.

haha sounds like you have been flying too many times on kashan

Elektro wrote:haha sounds like you have been flying too many times on kashan

Lol, I meant more in real life. Can´t remember the last time I flew on kashan...

Alex6714 wrote:2) I don´t know why people have it in their head that aicraft are always hitting lases by infantry.

It has been made very clear that the desire to do anything but fly on station and wait for targets by other people is not the kind of behavior desired of the players by the DEVs. The system is set up so that trying to designate and take out targets by you and only you in the cockpit should always be ineffective and the large majority of the time fatal. (The fact that is is apparently (I do not have the training or knowledge from someone trained in aircraft use as pertains to military applications, nor their weapons or target acquisition systems ) unrealistic does not matter, this is a balance issue)

The problem is, you are assuming it can´t be balanced any other way, which it can, and that without it there would be no teamwork, which there would.

I was unaware I was assuming anything
Merely postulating the reasons and intentions.

Personally I think much could be imported from CA, but what do I know.

Alex6714 wrote:F18 20mm strafe.


LiveLeak.com - A US F-18 takes out IED and group of insurgents in Ramadi, Iraq.

Just a question.
How do you know that they are really insurgents and not just crowd? Because the video says so? Can you see if they are armed?

Zrix wrote:LiveLeak.com - F18 strike in Karmah, Iraq

How do you know that the rockets hitted only insurgents?

Personally i dont think that a pilot fires blindly to whatever concentration of people he sees..
So somebody must told him that they are insurgents and no civilians nearby.

But this pilot ....



Just tell him where they are and he has no problems.
Thats my point.

Nemus wrote:
Personally i dont think that a pilot fires blindly to whatever concentration of people he sees..

Nor do I...