Can you imagine how awesome PR 2 will be?!

[SomebodySomeone]

Imagine PR on Bad Company 2, that would rule.

[Z-trooper]

The ones of you that enjoy the awesome free gameplay and would like it to remain that way or don't like to pay via a subscription IF that will end up being the way we go, you always have the option of playing the amazing free (if you've botherd to pay for BF2) option of "Project Reality (1)"... dun dun duuuuun. Noone is forcing you to pay for PR2 if you don't want to...

[Twisted Helix]

I don't think anyone is "freaking out" about it, just the whole "subscription" thing rubs me the wrong way just like it does with Xbox Online and WOW. I rather just pay upfront, even if it is 60 bucks because I won't have to have in the back of my mind that I am signed on to something and have to go in and cancel it manually.

You have to understand that this is simply the way things are going. In fact ... few years and you might not be able to buy PC games anymore except through special online outlets. Most major games stores are ceasing to stock PC games (as they really don't shift units in comparison to console titles), and some development companies are beginning to wonder what the point of keeping a PC division salaried, when it doesn't make money.

So it may end up being that PC games delivery is exclusively through people like Steam, and its indie.

So you are going to need that credit card or paypal account anyway. Also PR2 will be an 18 rated game (most likely we expect it to be violent ) and therefore over 18s should have no problem with credit cards ... under 18s ... well I am sure they will find a way, they always do.

Addressing your concerns, we could make it so that you could buy a yearly subscription up front. This would STILL be cheaper than buying the game as a unit ... and you do not have to worry about renewal. You could buy 2 or 3 years upfront and STILL be cheaper than buying the game as a unit with associated updates over that time.

The way I see it ... like Jaymz, is that a subscription allows you to get the best value for your money and offers a scaling price scheme for a variety of different users (the quick triers, the ones who play for a while and the hardcore) without being complicated. Although ... bear in mind that we are not even saying that it WILL be subscription based, this is just one of the ideas that we have been mulling over. Whatever we decide we fully intend to make the community part and parcel of the decision, but of course you can't please all the people all the time. There are other ideas as well, which I wont say anything about now, that might well make you change your point of view come nearer the time. All I can say is wait and see. We intend to try and be quite revolutionary, not only in our game ambitions, but in our revenue model as well ... because as we do not have publishers to pay back, we can afford to be pioneers.

Games that cost money are all worse and yes, its a confusing paradox but it seems to be correct. I have my own idea why, and that is since the DEVS do things because they want to, not because they have to pay their bills. If there is a monthly salary for the DEVS it is more likely player will start demanding things and more likely the DEVS will succumb to the will of the masses, making PR2 content more washed out. The constant requirements of new content would risk alot more subpar material being included in the mod.

You are not quite right there. The reason this happens is because publishers are involved, and they want to see a return on their investment ... and they therefore exercise control over the development and push it in ways that they see as being commercial (which is often just *shit*).

We will avoid that by putting in the hard work , up front, for free. So we can make a game free of these commercial constraints. It may be because of that the game never makes any money but thats the risk we are taking. I really don't understand where you get the idea that we will have a salary and that will spoil the making of the game, because there really wont be any money until the game is finished and shipped :

(and this next bit is not directed at you TheLean, but is just in general for all those who think that games should be made for free)

I mean it seems to me ... that you want us to make the game, but you do not want us to be rewarded in any way whatsoever. Do you realize that that is the definition of slavery ?

What if after making it ... we just thought , hell thats all too much work to continue doing ... and just let it drop, because the time and dedication required had brought to many of us to breaking point. Is that what you want ? We break our backs so that you can play a game you like and then you just want us to shuffle off to our little cells and make no more noise til you fancy an update ?

I mean ... call me sensitive ... but I find that a bit callous.

Oh and incidentally , regarding donations ... I think you will find that a lot of them come from us Devs ourselves , we put both our time and our money in to this ... hows that for a financial model ? Its not really a workable solution in the long run. Not if you want us to continue.

[Claymore]

Ok, as much as I like free games and open source community, there is one thing that has to be said. If you aim high, it's impossible to finish pretty much anything else than a mod as a free dev. I was a part of a very dedicated mod team once and we ended up paying for the project ourselves while giving it away for free. Mod leader payed more than 1000$ for getting various things done by external people, I used 800$ on software and another 700$ on hardware upgrades for better and faster results.. so on and so forth. And it was only a mod.. It's a paradox. I like being a free dev even for the cost of sacrificing my time and money but I have to admit that any big projects are simply out of my reach.

Anyone who starts developing a game on his own deserves the utmost respect these days. I am also not comfortable with any monthly fees, never played WOW or any game like that. But for PR2 I'd make an exception and would even go as far as to say that independent game developers could possibly afford more in relation to their community than a commercial company.

Don't know if it was mentioned earlier but there is a game called Interstellar marines (Interstellar Marines). The team behind it was created as an independent company and at a certain point in development started to search for a distributor. Distributors said yes but this and that has to be changed, we want control over the development and we want basically all profit after the release. The founders of the independent studio simply couldn't agree with that and right now the development is basically funded by the community. Unbelievable but real, at least for now. People know that even if they pay their money to the studio, the development may fail and at a certain point it almost did but when the studio offered refunds, noone wanted to take their money back. I'd like to see a commercial company getting this kind of support from it's community

EDIT: Helix, you were faster I can only agree with everything you said. There is no distributor that would finance development of PR2 in the way devs want it. It would be another semi Rambo FPS with a nightvision, flashlight and an underslug grenade launcher for every soldier as a DLC option.

[Conman51]

i actually would be interested in making direct donations toward the equipment of PR2 once i can, because as far as i know the money that gets donated is ONLY for server costs.

im sure that the software to start making the game will probably be more expensive than the profit the devs will make back

[Scared_420]

so pr2 is gonna be awesome duhhh why are you all talking about having to pay for it, for amount of time you played it to have signed into the forums and post then u obviously enjoy it better than your xbox 8vs8 maps

[Smurf_39]

I dont know what all the fuss is about, people that are part-timers on PR will probably have a problem paying/subscribing, people that enjoy PR for what it is (a unique style of tactitical gameplay) would fork out the money.....and thats alot of people.

Iam for paying.

DEV's keep on doing what your doing

[MonkeySoldier]

PR2 is probably going to be awesome, but i bet i will have to get a credit card, or i will not be able to play.
That sucks.

You can use PayPal. I don't got a creditcard either, but I do got a PayPal account. That enables you to link your bank pass (Rabo bank, ABN, whatever you're connected to) to a PayPal account. That way you can transfer money internationally.

[Zulnex]

You can use PayPal. I don't got a creditcard either, but I do got a PayPal account. That enables you to link your bank pass (Rabo bank, ABN, whatever you're connected to) to a PayPal account. That way you can transfer money internationally.

Yes, I also use Paypal (linked my bank account) so the money is immediately transfered. Never had any problems with it.

[Masaq]

To summarize the team's position;

Project Reality 2, as a work in development, is still in very early stages. We, like everyone else, have no real idea of what shape or state the market for video games will be like by the time PR2 comes to be a viable commercial project, and as such are completely unable to comment with any degree of certainty what the licensing method used will be at the point of sale.

As such, please do not speculate or postulate what possible implications there are for any given method of purchase at this point. When the team are in a position to be able to give firm indications of what the purchase method will be, we will inform you. We do not realistically expect to be able to do this for a considerable period of time; it is likely to be shortly before release, once there is actually a playable game to market and publish.

We do, of course, welcome any and all interest in PR2 - however we must ask you all to be patient and to not discuss rumours or your own thoughts as being factual - online communities are rather like a massive, constantly-evolving game of Chinese Whispers, and we all know why that game is so hilarious: because everyone gets it wrong!

So I'm going to park this thread and please, feel free to point people at this post if you see them getting worked up about things that even the PR2 team aren't considering a priority at this point!

Regards,


Masaq