Project Reality Forums

i was playing al basrah the other day, it was terrible tbh. they need to find a balance between the two, and yh ppl need to change how they play too. its just bit frustratin when u walk bare far from the nearest FO and then die in freak situation. :S

food 4 thought

mat552 wrote: Edit, on lonewolfing. It's better in the beta than it has ever been before. A single rifleman, waiting for just the right moment, can set a squad, and thus a part of the blob, back. Everyone can be as 1337 as a sniper, without the kit. I love being that rifleman, especially on muttrah, I feel like a ninja.

Yeah, this really has to be tweaked.
Speaking of lone-wolfes being succesfull against properly working squads, i have to say that i loved the cruel deviation before v0.8, where shooting kinda felt like playing an RPG with every round having a specific chance to hit its target due to ingame calculations and not primary because of a player's skills.
Lone-wolfig against working squads was really senseless back then, since having 6 barrels pointing at one player ment precalculated death of the latter.
Of course it wasn't realistic at all and not many ppl liked that firefights with that deviation felt like some kind of gambling but it actually strenghtened the need to work as a combined squad.

On the TG server you're kicked for not being in a squad. There's your solution to lone-wolfing. If a server can't get an admin on or sort out a system , don't play there.

i'm pritty sure that removing rps and what not will be alot more benificial to the community then not. Sure the player base may become smaller, but the people who really wanna play pr through teamwork will stay. Infact the amount of teamwork should increase dramaticlly. Lets say the devs didn't change something because of how it might negitivly effect PR. PR would be nowere then. It would just be some other mod that people forget about because they wouldn't change it just because somebody said no.

Also, if your walking across the map your doing something wrong. A you should have spawned with your squad on what ever fob or spawnpoint was asked. B if you were wounded then you shouldn't have gave up. C don't rely on everybody else on less teamwork oriented servers, build fobs to, remember its equally your fault nobody built a fob. D if you came in the middle of the round, without any fobs nearby then thats to bad. Get a ride, Wait for a fob to get nearby, start hoofing it or leave the server.

I think the biggest problem with the new changes is that you can't FORCE people to be mindful of their team and the game at large.

With the new system in place, it really requires a team that knows what it's doing and knows what it wants to do.

The change from squad to team will only benefit those who see the value in the team as a whole. In your average game, even if people join squads, it seems just too easy to spawn at the front line and charge in.

It was essentially the fact that squad RPs were the best way to get into the fight that people would join squads and do the entire teamwork thing in the first place.

I remember when they stopped you being abole to spawn on APCs, everyone was going mad, but it brought us to here, and the SL spawn too

crAck_sh0t wrote:On the TG server you're kicked for not being in a squad. There's your solution to lone-wolfing. If a server can't get an admin on or sort out a system , don't play there.

Same on UKWF now, my solution is making my own squad and naming it FREE KITS and telling every1 to do their own thing (Yes I rly do that!), and no im not using the squad for snipor/marksman kitz, usually its just a SL kit for the dressings or a LMG if im really pissed off.

CAS_117 wrote:Removing rally points isn't going to ruin anything. The problem is that they've been in so long that so many things are based around them that its like removing a cast off of a person with a broken leg; It's going to be wobbly until certain things are done.

Great metaphor that pretty much sums it up. Once the number if tickets and caches etc has been adjusted it will be even better than in the beta.

Jevski wrote:I agree with soldier, trying the beta on specific servers only works well on those servers.
They do not give a good picture of the general playerbase of PR.

As an experiment the base is too small, it does not give a good picture. Like flipping a coin twice and then say it lands "heads" 100% of the time.

I do like the new system, I just dont think its usuable on public games. Scrims and such yes.

Ive tried playing on servers where the base wasnt the usual up to standard, guess what, no one except the usual 1 or 2 players build firebases. Asking for help or anything did not help in any way. . And being the only SL that does anything at all can be very stressful.

And yes, play on another server, but that does not help PR If all the good and experienced players are on 2 or 3 full servers, how will the beginners learn?

As I have stated before in another thread, removing the RP will remove any independence from the rest of the team in case they dont teamwork. Not all server have the same rules, on some its not mandatory to follow Sl or Co's order.

As many may say Rp's are not realistic, well of course they arent. This is still a game. And as such we must also remember to keep the playability alive. How many would play PR, if you had 1 life?

I'd not play because war inherently must have casualties and that means that it's going to be a very unfun game because I might as well just stop playing after I die.

Icix1 wrote:It was essentially the fact that squad RPs were the best way to get into the fight that people would join squads and do the entire teamwork thing in the first place.

Why play a game like PR if you're only doing the teamwork thing in order to gain a closer spawn point? Skip the hassle and play vanilla.

crAck_sh0t wrote:On the TG server you're kicked for not being in a squad. There's your solution to lone-wolfing. If a server can't get an admin on or sort out a system , don't play there.

Another solution would be:

Not in a squad? You don't get to use FOBs.

Hunt3r wrote:My two cents regarding the matter is that it won't. What is needed to prevent the shock of the removal of RPs is to keep log trucks, and trans helos to be on every map. One, or the other, or both.

The logistic trucks ingame are already a problem. The DEVs designed it behind the whole "teamwork" concept of some dedicated squad actually delivering the supply crates and returning the truck to main. That system never worked though and we all know that supply trucks are just personal transports now and get left all over the battlefield.

Do you really think this Beta change is going to change anything?

Threedroogs wrote:the changes will make lone wolfing easier and more effective, but it will also make squad teamwork more important. in the beta (especially with no RP spawn at all), the squad is everything. i wanted to be in visual contact with at least a few of my squadmates at all times, with all six of us within 50 or so meters. successfully attacking an objective takes a serious amount of teamwork on the squad level. attacking is very hard without the ability to hide an RP a few hundred meters from the fight. when someone was shot, the entire mission shifted to securing the downed infantryman and reviving him. i view all these things as improvements. my guess is that if there's more lone wolfing, it will happen around the FOs most of the time. any added defense is okay in my book.

How is that any different from what's ingame right now? You can do ALL of that ingame right now, all it takes is a good squadleader and a couple of competent squadmembers. I can do the whole 50m visual contact thing, flanking thing, teamwork while assaulting or defending thing, etc. All this Beta does though is weaken that already good system ingame.

Kim Jong ill wrote:I think the idea that this is to stop RP's acting as a siege engine is an absolute cop out on behalf of any potential defenders, if you plan to just sit there after a repulsed attack with your thumb up your arse then you deserve to lose. Rather then just sitting there like a stunned mullet how about you dedicate a portion of your force to tracking down the attackers and overrunning their rally, they can't effectively defend a rally if they've just spawned (Or waiting to spawn) and you're counter attacking quickly.

This seems to me a massive shift of responsibility away from defending forces and instead putting it on the shoulders of those attacking, which isn't right.

As the OP stated this is going to kill effective flanking actions, all it takes is your medic to be killed and/or pinned down and your squad will be mince meat and sent back to a FOB god knows how far away.

I 100% agree. I really think the Beta is a big copout for for those who don't want to do the work (counter-attacking) or expect the game to be given to them once they defeat one enemy squad. I like how they say I am complaining, when they do the samething, except that they are coming from a "lazy" point of view. Once an enemy squad is defeated, you guys need to push forward (unless you are defending, in which case send out patrols to clear the area of RPs) so that their reinforcements cannot get to you quick enough to do anything.

Look, there are only 32 players ingame per side. Currently, the RP system allows reinforcements possible and waves of enemies which basically simulates larger number of enemies. With the Beta, you are going to cut the amount of reinforcements and enemies down by A TON. So now, it will essentially be 1 vs. 1 squad fighting as opposed to multiple squads since when one gets wiped out, its gone for good. The large scale epic battles of old will be gone and will be replaced with small, light skirmishes which will end quicker than they begin. The fact is, having to respawn all the way back at FOBs doesn't properly simulate reinforcements. In fact, reinforcements will be rare now since when one squad goes down, by the time the other squad gets there, they will be the only ones there.

Myru wrote:Yeah, this really has to be tweaked.
Speaking of lone-wolfes being succesfull against properly working squads, i have to say that i loved the cruel deviation before v0.8, where shooting kinda felt like playing an RPG with every round having a specific chance to hit its target due to ingame calculations and not primary because of a player's skills.
Lone-wolfig against working squads was really senseless back then, since having 6 barrels pointing at one player ment precalculated death of the latter.
Of course it wasn't realistic at all and not many ppl liked that firefights with that deviation felt like some kind of gambling but it actually strenghtened the need to work as a combined squad.

I actually won't mind the deviation going back to that of 0.8, but more tweaked levels. Right now, firefights don't last very long, even with good teamwork, because the SAWs are so accurate. And when you stick your head out, you are likely to get clipped, even if ducking down constantly because of lag.

badmojo420 wrote:Why play a game like PR if you're only doing the teamwork thing in order to gain a closer spawn point? Skip the hassle and play vanilla.

Just stop it. Just because someone doesn't 100% agree with you doesn't mean they should go to vanilla. Maybe you should just go to ArmA if you want 100% realism? Stop using "go play vanilla" as an argument because it is a weak one.

The point the guy was making was that RPs essentially force, but also reward players for going into squads. They have an extra spawnpoint there closer to the action, but if they want to remain using it, they have to follow the SL's orders or else they will be kicked from the squad. With the Beta, you take out that reward and add in another reward completely independent of squads, which is the Firebase. Thus, increasing lone wolving.

crAck_sh0t wrote:On the TG server you're kicked for not being in a squad. There's your solution to lone-wolfing. If a server can't get an admin on or sort out a system , don't play there.

So are you willing to stay on PR 24/7 in order to fix that problem? I assume not, and thats the case with most servers and their admins. The majority of servers are privately owned and they don't have the manpower or money to have people on all the time to admin.

BTW, that "join a squad or be kicked" thing does nothing to solve the problem of lone wolves. I noticed when I was in those servers that all I got in my squads were guys who just went off on their own and were only in my squad so they wouldn't get kicked. That never happened on other servers (as much) either. I would much rather have guys who willingly want to be in my squad over those who are forced to be.

Jevski wrote:I agree with soldier, trying the beta on specific servers only works well on those servers.
They do not give a good picture of the general playerbase of PR.

As I have stated before in another thread, removing the RP will remove any independence from the rest of the team in case they dont teamwork. Not all server have the same rules, on some its not mandatory to follow Sl or Co's order.

As many may say Rp's are not realistic, well of course they arent. This is still a game. And as such we must also remember to keep the playability alive. How many would play PR, if you had 1 life?

^^^This.Anythings possible on TG since they have the money from supporting members to always have admins on and constantly admin their servers. Not every server has this ability though.

Remember when APCs were the spawnpoint? They worked good in TG just like the Beta in TG. Look how that went on most servers, it failed. Remember when Logistic trucks (2 seater trucks) were first introduced? They worked good on TG, but look what happened when they were used on every other server? After the first week of the patch, they got left all over the battlefield.

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:Just stop it. Just because someone doesn't 100% agree with you doesn't mean they should go to vanilla. Maybe you should just go to ArmA if you want 100% realism? Stop using "go play vanilla" as an argument because it is a weak one.

The point the guy was making was that RPs essentially force, but also reward players for going into squads. They have an extra spawnpoint there closer to the action, but if they want to remain using it, they have to follow the SL's orders or else they will be kicked from the squad. With the Beta, you take out that reward and add in another reward completely independent of squads, which is the Firebase. Thus, increasing lone wolving.

Okay yeah sorry, telling him to play vanilla was a little out of line. But it wasn't an argument, it was my opinion on what I thought would suit him better.

Telling me to go play Arma if i want 100% realism isn't correct. Arma doesn't offer 100% reality, nor does any game. And nor do I want 100% realism. What i want from PR, is amazing teamwork. Not forced teamwork through the use of incentives. To me personally, having a squad that works great together, is all the incentive I need.

What I was responding to, was him saying that rallypoints were the only reason people join squads. And personally I dislike this idea that forcing people into groups will create better teamwork. People will always play the way they want to, be it as an extreme team player, extreme lone wolfer, somewhere between, or even both at times. Nothing the game imposes on you, will make a person change. If a person wants to lone wolf, they will.

It's still lone wolfing when someone joins a squad, takes a kit and runs away on his own. So how exactly does forcing people into squads create better teamwork? Educate me please!

00SoldierofFortune00 wrote: Look, there are only 32 players ingame per side. Currently, the RP system allows reinforcements possible and waves of enemies which basically simulates larger number of enemies. With the Beta, you are going to cut the amount of reinforcements and enemies down by A TON. So now, it will essentially be 1 vs. 1 squad fighting as opposed to multiple squads since when one gets wiped out, its gone for good. The large scale epic battles of old will be gone and will be replaced with small, light skirmishes which will end quicker than they begin. The fact is, having to respawn all the way back at FOBs doesn't properly simulate reinforcements. In fact, reinforcements will be rare now since when one squad goes down, by the time the other squad gets there, they will be the only ones there.

yeah thats what bothers me a little.
imo best option would be limited rally where you can spawn just examble 4 times and sl can deploy that just once.
(you have fear of dying there and you have rally,theres something for everybody)
but hey,if rp changes gonna destroy the game,bring rallys back at v1.0

Arguing as if FOBs do not exist is not a good way of arguing.

badmojo420 wrote:Okay yeah sorry, telling him to play vanilla was a little out of line. But it wasn't an argument, it was my opinion on what I thought would suit him better.

Telling me to go play Arma if i want 100% realism isn't correct. Arma doesn't offer 100% reality, nor does any game. And nor do I want 100% realism. What i want from PR, is amazing teamwork. Not forced teamwork through the use of incentives. To me personally, having a squad that works great together, is all the incentive I need.

What I was responding to, was him saying that rallypoints were the only reason people join squads. And personally I dislike this idea that forcing people into groups will create better teamwork. People will always play the way they want to, be it as an extreme team player, extreme lone wolfer, somewhere between, or even both at times. Nothing the game imposes on you, will make a person change. If a person wants to lone wolf, they will.

Which is why this change is terrible. It destroys one of the main reasons why people join squads (RPs) and tries to force them into working as a team by all spawning together on FOBs. As you just said, people will play the way they want to play, so if there isn't teamwork (or at least teamwide teamwork) already in PR as some of the people here (who are clueless IMO) are arguing, then how is this going to change it as you just said?

It's still lone wolfing when someone joins a squad, takes a kit and runs away on his own. So how exactly does forcing people into squads create better teamwork? Educate me please!

I never said to just "force" people into squads just for the sake of forcing teamwork. If you read one of my previous posts, I am 100% against TG or any other server's policy of forcing players to join squads. Let the lone wolves lone wolve, but reward the players who want to be in squads by allowing them to spawn closer to the action for instance. Take this reward away for joining a squad and being a good teamplayer and you really have 32 lone wolves on your team and some of which just happen to be in squads.

I said they were essentially forced into squads because of the benefits and rewards they get from it which are very important to surviving ingame such as spawning closer, more weapon choices, etc. There need to be incentives for people to join squads. The new Beta FOB spawn system does nothing to add to the reward/incentive system already in PR. Without incentives, there is no reason for anyone to do anything ingame really. People aren't just working out of kindness. Think of it like a job. People need to be paid or else they wouldn't be working there. Its no different with video games.

A limited respawn on the rally would be better. Four is a good number, it would simulate a large platoon. And then maybe a 10-30 min to create a new rally point.

Soldier of fortune: About the job liklines i would then argue that the feeling of actually having a good teamwork squad and team is the "pay" for most people plaing this mod.

'Sirex[SWE wrote:[MoW];1200775']Soldier of fortune: About the job liklines i would then argue that the feeling of actually having a good teamwork squad and team is the "pay" for most people plaing this mod.

No, I agree with that (and that's how I feel when I play), but you can't deny that spawning close to or with your squad isn't an incentive to join a squad. Many, especially of the new players, don't, so they need some incentive to join squads and learn why they are fun. RPs are what really seperates PR from vanilla and the rest of the BF2 MODs IMO as they make constant teamwork possible. All have squads, but one has constant teamwork and the other doesn't.

I think it will ruin PR as much as the minimap removal did and when they removed the SL spawn.