Project Reality Forums

Bump. Devs?

True but sometimes the sniper is alone and it's not always easy to find a good spotter. I'm usually a spotter and I have a hard time finding a decent sniper. Most of the snipers ingame have a headset on their heads therefore a radio. So I don't see what is so difficult about giving them a radio for spotting purposes. Usually a 2 man team gets spotted faster then a 1 man team that is efficient and reliable on his own. True fact.

How about using a SL kit to spot? The GLTD can be just as, if not, more deadly than the sniper rifle. That is, when it is coupled with CAS. Once again tho, if your mission is just to spot, not to engage, grab the SL kit.

The sniper kit is now meant for sniping and lazing only. If you want to one man a spotting mission, don't grab sniper.

Expatriate Gamer wrote:I know the whole Idea of not giving the Sniper a Radio is to increase Intel gathering teamwork. However, no one is ever willing to go Squad Leader Kit with a Sniper. On Muttrah for Instance, there is usually a CAS Squad with a Cobra Pilot + 2 Attack Huey Pilots + 1 Squad leader. Most the time the squad is locked and its a big hassle getting in there and then your very effective because you can't mark targets exactly, you have to give a approximate grid blah blah... Thats why I make my own squad but if I don't have a partner, and most of the time I do he just prefers to bring a HAT kit not a squad Leader kit...


Anyway just give the Sniper a Radio, I don't care if you get rid of ALL the Bandages

completely agree. Snipers main role is gathering intelligence and being the commanders eyes on the ground, they NEED radios. Marksman are for squad support and long range targets.

once again, realism please, let the arcaders go play on their wii

We don't see enough people using the kit and assisting the kit properly, so lets make it easier on the people who wish to play it incorrectly??

People don't always use the logistics truck properly, does that mean we should add the big crates to the humvees? Or hell, we can go one further, I rarely see logistics trucks following tank convoys to repair them, so let's just make the tank pop out a repair drop? Then you wouldn't need to bother finding anyone to drive the truck around repairing you, because nobody ever wants to do it.

In some situations I'll agree with a sniper running off alone. But, we shouldn't be changing the game to suit a 1 man sniper team.

the sniper defanyly needs one.You wont need to have someone with the officer in order to call in stuff like a chopper or set up a rally point.

if only they can bring back the double zooms for all previously used weapons/gadgets.

hey guys i heard you like to be squadleader while sniping so we put a radio on your sniper so you can spot while you snipe

drs79 wrote:I could be wrong from not having any experience in the military, but I will say assertively that a knife is part of standard issued gear for all US Military Infantryman, and Snipers.

You're right Tom, but is a sniper really going to use a knife when there is more important kit needed?

Exactly! If an enemy is close enough to knife and you haven't killed him with your rifle, or you've used all the rounds in your sidearm magazine, then you're going to die.

Yeh, i think that it should be replaced. It has been something we have needed for a while.

calstifer wrote:Yeh, i think that it should be replaced. It has been something we have needed for a while.

Only if people choose to lonewolf, and even then, the majority of those players wouldn't mark targets even if they did have a radio, guaranteed.

sniper + radio = teamwork kill

sniper + spotter w/ radio = good

I disagree with giving them radios - it won't change game play. Even if it does change game play, it will be for worse, not better. It's a waste of the devs time.

You all mean to tell me that proliferating a device who's only purpose is to communicate with the team is somehow going to hurt teamwork? That makes absolutely no sense; especially in this environment where players are so precious as there are so many jobs to fill.

Expatriate Gamer wrote:Being a Spotter FOR a Sniper is Boring.

Well, some people also share this opinion, as well as the opinion that commander is boring. However, it is hard to argue against the fact that currently a sniper's spotter is detrimental to gameplay because it takes a player away from the infantry and other ground assets. To illustrate my point Let's say that we're on Karbala as the Americans...
18 Infantymen
4 Strykercrew
3x Tank Crew
2LB pilots
1 Commander
4x sniperteam members. 1 Officer + 1 sniper per team.

Assuming that this is a well organized team, we can see the potential to remove players from the fold here and to increase some teamwork.
Lets say that we remove both of the officers from the sniper teams and instead of running into the city, the sniper takes a step backwards, relatively close to friendly forces but at a distance away from the main fighting where he can use his kit properly. Turns out two of our team members are now out of a job, maybe they can dig firebases or pick up mines. However, without even firing a shot, both of these snipers, now fully empowered to speak to the CO without the burden of having to proxy through a squad leader who spots can make radio calls for CAS, Transport, Reinforcements and spotting. The sniper can now be the eyes and ears of his/her commander with this. I have personally commanded maps such as Korengal Valley where snipers have spent ages simply spotting targets for me. However, due to the limitations of BF2 1.50, it was very difficult for me to keep up with all of his marker requests plus all of the requests of the other squad leaders. This will alleviate some of that stress; not only on the commander, but on the squad leaders who must mark targets and call in area attacks/laser targets, often under while under fire.

An alternative method is to use a specialist to allow the sniper to reach better locations and then provide cover. We can have a 3 man sniper group, with 2 rifles and a specialist. This leaves 1 player out of a job for the awesome task of Firebase digging.

Expatriate Gamer wrote:You people don't get it, this isn't real life. There is a max of 32 people on a team. Having a second person in a sniper squad is ineffective to just mark what the sniper reports, just make the sniper be able to do it himself, its also more effective if you have more than 1 spotter for CAS in a squad to be at different Vantage Points.

badmojo420 wrote:2 sets of eyes are better than 1. Not to mention an officer with an aim point is far superior protection than your pistol.

They aren't going to remove a realistic part of combat, just because you think the job is boring & redundant.

A specialist with a rope will do even better than an officer if you must be protected.

They've already removed many realistic parts of combat for the sake of player count. In my opinion, both denying the sniper a radio for communication as well as forcing him to walk around with a spotter takes away from teamwork and does absolutely nothing to help the situation of limited players.

zebra.actual wrote:I disagree with giving them radios - it won't change game play. Even if it does change game play, it will be for worse, not better. It's a waste of the devs time.

I'm going to take an educated guess here and say that changing kits around isn't very hard for the developers especially when compared to the other developments for PR.
Knife: 1
Pistol: 2
Rifle: 3
Radio: 4
GTLD: 5
Random Item: 6
Green Smoke: 7
Field Dressing: 8
????: 9
PROFIT!!!!: 0

CCCode wrote:sniper + radio = teamwork kill

sniper + spotter w/ radio = good

Giving a sniper a radio so that he can call for support from his team and thus communicate with them does not kill teamwork. Let's look at it like this. The squad leader can call for assets to come pick him up, there is an audible tone and a marker on the map to alert pilots to this request. He can also create markers on the map so that T-90 that rolled around the corner won't be such a surprise to the others in the field. Finally, assuming he's in a good position, the squad leader can call in Laser strikes and Jdams, just hope that he hasn't bee spotted yet. Johnny the Sniper however, lacks any of these abilities when he's on his own. Perhaps, he's on Korengal Valley, spotting from the main base for the commander and taking out targets so the infantry have an easier time in the brush. I hope the commander can keep up with all those markers he wants to report because he just can't do it himself because it hurts teamwork if he can mark his own targets for the team. Let's say he's on Muttrah and needs a ride into the mountains behind north city as the MEC close in. I hope that those pilots spend a few seconds to look at the chat box while dodging AA missiles to hear his request for transport because he can't call it on his own because it hurts teamwork to ask the team for a lift. But, let's say that he does make it to the mountains and sees a huge blob of infantry and vehicles bunching up, turns out that Mr. Sniper can't call in an area attack to allow the team to move up because it's hurtful for teamwork unless he has someone not play infantry and call it in for him because calling it in yourself hurts teamwork .

CCCode wrote:sniper + radio = teamwork kill

sniper + spotter w/ radio = good

Simply sad. Brought to the point.

This is all I can say. I completely disagree with the suggestion und agree with this quote.

The sniper should always have a spotter with him, since otherwise he gets simply sneaked out and shot in close range, giving the kit to the other team as well as taking it away for a short time from his team. Also two people see more, since the sniper can watch a specific target while his spotter keeps his mind over the whole area. Next point is: Every time the sniper has to change to his GTLD or to type something, he becomes less effective. For this reason I NEVER play lone sniper, but always with a spotter. If you can't find a proper spotter: Don't touch the sniperkit since you are not even half as effective.

Another point: Approximately half of the time I see someone sniping, I see him going with a spotter. The other ones are lonewolfers, who wouldn't have much of a radio since they try to be some kind of uberkiller.

-1 to the suggestion.

I think the constellation of a 2 man Sniper Squad, with the SL having Offiver Kit with Radio works just fine. And i am not bored just spotting targets and marking them on the map as the SL. I think it is good the way it is. As SL of a 2 man Snipersquad giving the Sniper high priority targets with SL-marker and important intel about enemy assets with Radiomarker or inform about hostile movement isnt a boring job at all and helps even the whole team, if you can warn Squads about nearby ambushes, tanks, APCs or whatever. But thats just the case if the Snipersquad works in that way and is not there for just to take out as many infantry as possible. As already said, RECON is a big part of the job. But sometimes i feel like i am the only guy using the Radio to mark stuff on the map (as SL of Infantrysquad or Snipersquad). I think people dont use Radio as often as it should be used. ( I can tell from my experience)
The Radio was a big improvement in 0.9 and it should be used more in game to inform the whole team about enemy actions.

USA-Forever932 wrote:Johnny the Sniper however, lacks any of these abilities when he's on his own.

I think you'll find that is being penalised for lonewolfing, which, by its very definition, does not involve teamwork.

USA-Forever932 wrote: Perhaps, he's on Korengal Valley, spotting from the main base for the commander and taking out targets so the infantry have an easier time in the brush. I hope the commander can keep up with all those markers he wants to report because he just can't do it himself because it hurts teamwork if he can mark his own targets for the team.

If he was part of a squad which consisted of him and an officer, or any other combination which involved an SL having an officer kit, he would not have this problem, do you see a pattern?

USA-Forever932 wrote: Let's say he's on Muttrah and needs a ride into the mountains behind north city as the MEC close in. I hope that those pilots spend a few seconds to look at the chat box while dodging AA missiles to hear his request for transport because he can't call it on his own because it hurts teamwork to ask the team for a lift.

If he had an SL with an officer kit as his spotter...

USA-Forever932 wrote: But, let's say that he does make it to the mountains and sees a huge blob of infantry and vehicles bunching up, turns out that Mr. Sniper can't call in an area attack to allow the team to move up because it's hurtful for teamwork unless he has someone not play infantry and call it in for him because calling it in yourself hurts teamwork .

You know, if he had a squad leader with him, with some sort of kit which had a radio, like an Officer, he would have been able to do all of this.

This Johnny Sniper character sounds like all of those kiddies on the game at the moment who just finished watching Jarhead and think that they're pretty hot shit and don't need anyone slowing them down.

To lonewolfers everywhere, I salute you.

sniper teams on this game are very useless as the long ranges can be achevied with a marksmen rifle, spotting can be done by an officer and well... thats about it, a recon team could consist of 1 four man squad;
- officer = SL, used for spotting and commicating with commander/ rest of the team
- marksman/AR = SM1, used for long range kills/harrasment
- medic,LAT,spec rifle, rifle ammo = SM2, used for short/medium range kills and can suypply health/anti tank support/rope and shot gun/ammo.
- medic,LAT,spec rifle, rifle ammo = SM, used for short/medium range kills and can suypply health/anti tank support/rope and shot gun/ammo (3usualy not the same as the first, if a LAt is brought by 2rd SM then 3rd should bring ammo).


or for jungle/non insugency;
- officer = SL, used for spotting and commicating with commander/ rest of the team
- combat enginer/AR = SM1, used for long range kills/harrasment
- medic,LAT,spec rifle, rifle ammo = SM2, used for short/medium range kills and can suypply health/anti tank support/rope and shot gun/ammo.
- medic,LAT,spec rifle, rifle ammo = SM, used for short/medium range kills and can suypply health/anti tank support/rope and shot gun/ammo (3usualy not the same as the first, if a LAt is brought by 2rd SM then 3rd should bring ammo).

if the CE is brought then the other two squad members should bring ammo. Also regular drops by ethier supply trucks or apcs should be made by the team or the squad members.



this suggestion would not help teamwork as we already have enough lone wolfing 1 man locked squad snipers who think their kit is 1337 when an AR or even 3 man rifle squad could probs take him/her out.


untill map size and veiw distance is increased snipers are not very usful, if they are removed marksmen should be availble on the squad reaching 2-3 members.

BlackwaterSaxon wrote:I think you'll find that is being penalised for lonewolfing, which, by its very definition, does not involve teamwork.

We penalize and penalize for supposedly lonewolfing (How going out and marking targets for the team from any position on the map is lonewolfing I have no idea) but we never penalize for wasting player positions. People find it unneeded to protect a 10 ticket asset with an extra machinegunner, but they find it in the field of good teamwork to have a sniper lug around an extra player just for a set of binoculars and a radio? If what you say is true, what stops a lone player from driving a logi out of main base, by himself, without any support to get some repairs to the tanks on Kashan desert?

BlackwaterSaxon wrote:If he was part of a squad which consisted of him and an officer, or any other combination which involved an SL having an officer kit, he would not have this problem, do you see a pattern?

Or we could just put him in an actual squad, putting more people on the field and enhancing the main battle. There are plenty of scenarios where having this officer is just plain redundant I'll go ahead and list them.
Sitting in Fallujah west main
Sitting in Korengal Valley main
Sitting in Qwai River mountains by the processing facility.
Sitting in the mountain valley on Muttrah.
Some of the flags which are not in play On Barracuda for China
Sitting on the Castle in Operation Archer.

I have witnessed lone wolf snipers literally SPAMMING my communications channel with requests for markers for different targets all around the map. I had two snipers. that game, giving them officers would have taken valuable infantry or vehicle or aircraft operators off of the field just for the silly purpose of having someone look through a GTLD because we believe that anyone doing anything even remotely alone hurts teamwork no matter what it is.

Following this logic, we should also be able to list the following things, as they involve only one person, as lonewolfing and detrimental to teamwork gameplay.

Transport choppers dropping crates automatically near friendly forces.
Attack Hueys doing strafing runs without lases.
Logistics trucks doing repairs without escort.
Lonewolf AA vehicles perching themselves up on the Kashan mountains and waiting for targets where jets have been previously reported.
An Officer going out by himself and reporting targets.
Any sort of cache-ninja.

BlackwaterSaxon wrote:You know, if he had a squad leader with him, with some sort of kit which had a radio, like an Officer, he would have been able to do all of this.

You know, if we weren't sticking people in redundant positions like spotting on a 32 man team, we actually might be able to crew all of those wonderful assets that collect rust in the main base and we might not have to make so many development concessions due to playercount. Oh yeah, maybe so many infantry squads wouldn't have to operate at half staff because the Cobra squad and all the sniper teams all need officers to hold their hands, even if they're at main!

BlackwaterSaxon wrote:This Johnny Sniper character sounds like all of those kiddies on the game at the moment who just finished watching Jarhead and think that they're pretty hot shit and don't need anyone slowing them down.

This sniper-team stuff sounds all of those buffs who just got done watching The Hurt locker and....

BlackwaterSaxon wrote:To lonewolfers everywhere, I salute you.

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