Project Reality Forums

dtacs wrote:The more I read his posts the more I believe it..its just too subtle.

On topic I see no problem with deviation other than how effective prone diving is. I was killed on Gaza peninsula by an instaproning HAMAS sniper 10m away. Elmo147*AUS* his name was, he even said it was total bull over mumble. Proves that prone diving isn't truly emitted from the game.

Prone-diving only increases the spread. There's still going to be a slim chance they'll hit you regardless.

Sure I've been killed by prone-divers a couple of times... Normally I just crouch and shoot them in the face as they blindly pray for a lucky hit.

dtacs wrote: On topic I see no problem with deviation other than how effective prone diving is. I was killed on Gaza peninsula by an instaproning HAMAS sniper 10m away. Elmo147*AUS* his name was, he even said it was total bull over mumble. Proves that prone diving isn't truly emitted from the game.

You will always get, or get done by a lucky shot... there is no way to remove that (small) factor.

And yes, going by Kami.exe's wording and what not i do think that , he be trollin!

Dev1200 wrote: However, PR can't tell you where your aimpoint is, since the engine isn't as enhanced as other game engines. So, you have to approximate.

Why do people assume this isn't a big deal? In fact, this is the thing that is really most frustrating. Without memorizing certain time factors and keeping track of everything you do, how can one be expected to obtain good deviation. I play tactically and often think I've done the right thing to line my shots. Still, 50% of the time, I miss horribly. IRL or ArmA, I would know how much I was swaying as well as the moment when I could fire. With such a complex deviation system, there is a lot of luck involved.

IMO, it's one of the basic problems of PR. It tries to compensate for too many things that the bf2 engine is not fit to handle. PR will never be a milsim, only a tactical shooter.

google wrote:IMO, it's one of the basic problems of PR. It tries to compensate for too many things that the bf2 engine is not fit to handle. PR will never be a milsim, only a tactical shooter.

I don't think PR has ever tried to be a milsim...

Here we go again. :-S Deviation is perfect in terms of BF2 enigne. IDK what problems you guys are having all the time, but I think you are a bit impatient. If you cant wait for the weapons to settle, go play BF2v Thank you.

Phatcap wrote:Deviation is perfect in terms of BF2 enigne.

Deviation is flawed, it can't appropriately handle both close and long range combat. It's a poor substitute for ballistics and other realistic factors.

It's a compromise either way, I'd rather be able to make fluke shots at long range than miss someone right in front of me just because I've been moving for longer than a few seconds.

Phatcap wrote:IDK what problems you guys are having all the time, but I think you are a bit impatient.

If you want to know read the thread, it's all about problems with deviation. Waiting to settle to hit someone at long range is one thing, frantic close combat is another matter.

Phatcap wrote:If you cant wait for the weapons to settle, go play BF2v Thank you.

I put up with it for all the good things about PR and hope the devs can improve it.

Vanilla BF2 has it's own deviation problems. It's actually worse because unlike PR where you at least get good accuracy once you settle, in vanilla it's always randomly spreading.

Look Snazz I would support the shift to the BF2142 engine, just to have "correct" ballistics . But because of the tracer bug, we CANT have ballistics in BF2 R. So to make CQ and long range battles enjoyable the DEVs added this kind of deviation to stop dolphin dives, prone kills, bunnyhopper spraying (and killing everything), and and and. So IMO its good enough, cuz if you look back at old complaints about deviation "balblabla killing while going prone" .." balblabalba killed at 100m while jumping of a ladder", they were all related to "over"precise weapons. To sum up, I can say that you guys are never pleased.
I don't think that these kind of threads/discussions are any helpful to the DEVs. They are fully aware, that this kind of system isn't perfect, BUT its (for now) the best one.

And about my post before, yeah I exaggerated a bit...just to make people clear that we are sick of such pretty much useless and redundant threads.

Ahem.

If you don't like to shoot, then be Commander, he never shoots ever.
Or try being logistics, drive around trucks, hmmvs. And build FOB.

Shooting is everything in this game, its not a run and gun, COD game.
You need to work as a team, so build FOB's be Commander, drive trucks around.
Learn to fly, drive tanks around.

And if you do chose to be in a squad, don't pick a vital kit, pick Rifleman and when a firefight comes around, supress them, and let a part of your squad flank around them.

And whinning on the forums that the devation is right, or you can't fire your weapon, then you know what, go to coop and practice. I'm getting into to PR tomorrow, I've had no video card for 6 months, never even played PR .91 at all. But before that I never got a kill, yes maybe 1 kill every 3 rounds, but that was luck. But I fought on and did what the SL asked me to, and I sure didnt come on teh forums to give the 133t DEV, R-Coms, or Mods any trouble.

If you need help send me a PM here and I'll help you.
But asking the DEV's a question they have already seen, 1000+ times isn't gonna fix anything, its gonna end you up with infractions and possiblely more hatred towards PR which I hope isn't the goal of the DEVs. But if you feel that the devation in this game isn't to your standard then, I suggest you go back to Vanilla or some other games.

This game doesn't get easier unless you play like you have no life(not to offend anyone) then yeah shit gonna happen, you might rage quit, I have not gonna lie, PR does make me mad sometimes, but its the playablity and the fact that I can practice and think about what will happen if I master the devation system is what makes me come right back.

i hope that you do read this and learn from it. I've played for awhile over a year or 2. So yeah PM if ya need help. i'll try my best.

Sorry for super long response i get carried away.

Phatcap wrote: dolphin dives, prone kills, bunnyhopper spraying (and killing everything)

I'm pretty sure that the deviation values that prevent these two examples, are seperate from standard, movement based, deviation. You say that "we" are never pleased. I, for one, never had any complaints regarding .7 - .75 deviation. Sure, it could've used a little tweaking, but things were fine really. Snazz is absolutely correct in saying that deviation does a horrible job of what it's supposed to portray (weapon sway mainly). It's fairly obvious that plenty of people see that this compensation is flawed and severely annoying.

Phatcap wrote: They are fully aware, that this kind of system isn't perfect, BUT its (for now) the best one.

You may believe it to be the best one. I believe it to be detrimental to gameplay.

Johncro wrote:, and I sure didnt come on teh forums to give the 133t DEV, R-Coms, or Mods any trouble.

Wait, the player base is not supposed to give its opinion/input on gameplay in the feedback forum?

You've given your feedback countless times, the fact that deviation isn't going away should tell you something.

google wrote:
Wait, the player base is not supposed to give its opinion/input on gameplay in the feedback forum?

No, I've given feedback before. But asking for the devs to change devation all the time has to get annoying.

I can recall other 5 times in about 2 weeks were devation was asked to be changed.

And surely making a post were I've seen about 3-4 pink words like fluffy and whatnot is not proper feedback. If your mad then dont make a post until you have calmed down

Phatcap wrote:Look Snazz I would support the shift to the BF2142 engine, just to have "correct" ballistics . But because of the tracer bug, we CANT have ballistics in BF2 R.

I'm aware of the tracer bug issue. As for shifting to 2142 that wouldn't be wise as we'd lose all the vanilla BF2 content, force everyone to buy/install 2142 and give up the benefits of the far larger BF2 playerbase.

Phatcap wrote:So to make CQ and long range battles enjoyable the DEVs added this kind of deviation to stop dolphin dives, prone kills, bunnyhopper spraying (and killing everything), and and and. So IMO its good enough, cuz if you look back at old complaints about deviation "balblabla killing while going prone" .." balblabalba killed at 100m while jumping of a ladder", they were all related to "over"precise weapons.

CQ battles in PR are not enjoyable IMO.

Prone diving and bunny hopping are unrelated to the general movement deviation I'm talking about.

Phatcap wrote:To sum up, I can say that you guys are never pleased.

Not with deviation, I doubt the devs are either. It's unrealistic and only suits one range of combat or the other.

Phatcap wrote:I don't think that these kind of threads/discussions are any helpful to the DEVs. They are fully aware, that this kind of system isn't perfect, BUT its (for now) the best one.

It's feedback nevertheless, how much the devs take in is up to them.

Deviation itself is obviously here to stay, but it can be tweaked. I would at least lower it so close combat is less ridiculous, the resulting increase in long range accuracy would be well worth it IMO.

Phatcap wrote:And about my post before, yeah I exaggerated a bit...just to make people clear that we are sick of such pretty much useless and redundant threads.

Whoever you're speaking for should realize that this is the feedback forum.

Snazz wrote:CQ battles in PR are not enjoyable IMO.
Prone diving and bunny hopping are unrelated to the general movement deviation I'm talking about

I know I know I agree with you mate. I'm just saying, that I'm tired of these "DEVIATION SUX" feedbacks, DEVs and the whole community know that it isn't good nor very realistic/enjoyable. So the only thing I'm trying to say is that these negative feedbacks (after the 100th time) wont accelerate the changes at all.

Don't get me wrong you are right, but I don't wanna blame the DEVs either.

Snazz wrote:I'm aware of the tracer bug issue. As for shifting to 2142 that wouldn't be wise as we'd loose all the vanilla BF2 content, force everyone to buy/install 2142 and give up the benefits of the far larger BF2 playerbase.

I would like to shift because I own BF2142 and about "loosing" stuff we have now, porting from BF2 to BF2142 isn't very hard (I speak from personal experience). It is some work but not insanely much. Anyway this has nothing to do with the topic. And yeah BF2 player base is much more extended.

Originally Posted by Phatcap

They are fully aware, that this kind of system isn't perfect, BUT its (for now) the best one.

google wrote: You may believe it to be the best one. I believe it to be detrimental to gameplay.

My opinion, your opinion, that is impregnable.

I'd be in favor of just having lower max deviation, seeing as how it's one of those things that seem way too high right now.

You're right, I'm a troll, what was I thinking sharing my combat knowledge that is imparted upon all United States Marines. My bust, if I would have known you're so ignorant and your battlefield knowledge comes from video games, and that is the "Rule of Law" I would have kept my mouth shut because obviously you have dealt with IEDs, Mortars, Rockets, Grenades and pissed off Iraqi's trying to kill you with their AK's You know that using the ACOG RCO that you're utilizing off-set aiming or 'Kentucky Windage'
You know that you cant just pull your weapon to the center of your chest and engage and kill a tango at 20 yards with accurate fire.
You know that there is no such thing as deviation with a shotgun, that it's accurate at all ranges even though in the real world the shotgun has the worst deviation, and is completely unpredictable.

You know better than I do!

How would I know anything, I'm just a dumb jarhead stuck in the middle of Baghdad, Iraq 2010 style.

I'm sorry for trying to bring a little more realistic play to a game that's sole mission is realism.

Kami, your input is appreciated, but please keep your tone civil. This goes for everyone else too. Flame baiting and personal attacks will result in infractions.

Kami.exe wrote:Stuff.

The devs have numerous serving personnel for this info. Everything you said has been discussed before.

You have also yet to answer my question, you claim you can dive prone and crack off a headshot at 350 yards, how long would this process take you?

gazzthompson wrote:The devs have numerous serving personnel for this info. Everything you said has been discussed before.

You have also yet to answer my question, you claim you can dive prone and crack off a headshot at 350 yards, how long would this process take you?

2.5 seconds maximum, static target. From dive, to prone, 2.5 seconds maximum.

According to Jonny (he and zangoo were making a realistic ballistics for PR) weapon sway is possible. Have DEV's even contacted to him on this matter?

Surely this system would be better or not?

sakils2 wrote:According to Jonny (he and zangoo were making a realistic ballistics for PR) weapon sway is possible. Have DEV's even contacted to him on this matter?

Surely this system would be better or not?

The devs are fully aware. For a weapon to have ballistic every or all shots must be a tracer round. I guess they decided against this approach.

Kami.exe wrote:2.5 seconds maximum, static target. From dive, to prone, 2.5 seconds maximum.

I do not believe you can see a target 350 yards away and in 2.5 seconds dive prone and shoot said target.