[Server Option] Disallow HAT and CE in Insurgency mode

[Dev1200]

This is the main reason why im one of the few people that supports keeping the HAT kit in insurgency maps. Weapons like the javelin ARE used in real life in places like iraq and afghanistan. Just make it unreloadable and i think we will have reached a compromise on the whole situation.

You can't make it fill only 1 kind of ammo. It's either refill everything or nothing at all. That's why ammo bags fill up HAT, grenades, patches, etc.

[snooggums]

TG has insurgency?

Yes, I haven't seen a rotation on TG without insurgency in months outside of password events.

admins are supposed to watch everybodys kit and say "hey! is that hat blufor or insurgent!" then investigate it? NO.

No is correct, but the admins aren't expected to be the ones to watch the list, the commander or squad leaders who have given the orders to restrict the kit are expected to report the issue. Also, if there is no commander orders to restrict kits and the SL doesn't care anyone can take a HAT/AA/CE kit during a round of insurgency on the TG server. Now if they do it to intentionally give to the other team that would be cheating and not allowed, but kits are only restricted by the chain of command (Commanders or SLs over the player wanting the kit).

instead they run out and die without any reason to get kicked or banned because you can't ban ppl for dieing.

Right, there's no rules against stupidity but we don't allow actions like sharing intel or intentionally giving away kits as that is intended to harm the team or breaks the rules about cheating. Yes, players do run off and lose kits stupidly on the TG server when there is no commander, often the players will let them know it is a bad idea or step up to organize the team and restrict items for the rest of the map.

for those of you who think a hat can't ruin a round..... think of albasrah.... still think so? then your dumb.

Ok, I'm dumb. I've never seen a HAT taken by insurgents ruin Al Basrah in the many times I've seen it taken because it is rare for them to have enough ammunition to make the weapon useful on a 2k map. Sure, it might kill some armor, but so do bomb cars and bomb trucks which respawn as well as artillery, artillery IED kits and mines.

HAT AND AA ARE THE KITS THAT NEED REMOVED FROM BLUFOR ON INSURGENCY. ce kits do too. but hell, i'd take hats and aa as a major improvement. atleast ce kits can be usefull.

AA is illogical in Insurgency, I will agree. Do you know what kit really hurts BluFor on Insurgency? SAWs/light machine guns. HATs and CE might kill a few BluFor, but infantry light machine guns just waste the BluFor and are plentiful.

[K4on]

Do you know what kit really hurts BluFor on Insurgency? SAWs/light machine guns. HATs and CE might kill a few BluFor, but infantry light machine guns just waste the BluFor and are plentiful.

this point is intresting, cause i've never though this way. now, when i read this, i have to agree with u.

[illidur]

Yes, I haven't seen a rotation on TG without insurgency in months outside of password events.



No is correct, but the admins aren't expected to be the ones to watch the list, the commander or squad leaders who have given the orders to restrict the kit are expected to report the issue. Also, if there is no commander orders to restrict kits and the SL doesn't care anyone can take a HAT/AA/CE kit during a round of insurgency on the TG server. Now if they do it to intentionally give to the other team that would be cheating and not allowed, but kits are only restricted by the chain of command (Commanders or SLs over the player wanting the kit).



Right, there's no rules against stupidity but we don't allow actions like sharing intel or intentionally giving away kits as that is intended to harm the team or breaks the rules about cheating. Yes, players do run off and lose kits stupidly on the TG server when there is no commander, often the players will let them know it is a bad idea or step up to organize the team and restrict items for the rest of the map.



Ok, I'm dumb. I've never seen a HAT taken by insurgents ruin Al Basrah in the many times I've seen it taken because it is rare for them to have enough ammunition to make the weapon useful on a 2k map. Sure, it might kill some armor, but so do bomb cars and bomb trucks which respawn as well as artillery, artillery IED kits and mines.



AA is illogical in Insurgency, I will agree. Do you know what kit really hurts BluFor on Insurgency? SAWs/light machine guns. HATs and CE might kill a few BluFor, but infantry light machine guns just waste the BluFor and are plentiful.

then you realise if even tg doesn't want ppl running around with that kit it would be better to just not have it. i mean if every server is against it then why have it? less admin more play!

1 tank kill on al basrah from a hat is already reason enough. and how is it hard to reload a hat? theres even ammo trucks.....

[snooggums]

then you realise if even tg doesn't want ppl running around with that kit it would be better to just not have it. i mean if every server is against it then why have it? less admin more play!

1 tank kill on al basrah from a hat is already reason enough. and how is it hard to reload a hat? theres even ammo trucks.....

I don't want to limit people running around with it at all on all insurgency maps. There are times and places where the kits are useful and can be used in a way that minimizes the chances of losing the kit. Having the choice is better than restricting it completely.

No, one tank kill is not enough and to be honest, the tank is not important for the BluFor at all. It rarely makes it through the map and when it does, the intel it collects is minimal compared to a few guys with shotguns and the odds of it really helping assault a cache is low with the number of caches that spawn in the city.

[Imchicken1]

do NOT remove CE kits. As many have been saying, it is great for field repairs and removing mines and such.

[illidur]

I don't want to limit people running around with it at all on all insurgency maps. There are times and places where the kits are useful and can be used in a way that minimizes the chances of losing the kit. Having the choice is better than restricting it completely.

No, one tank kill is not enough and to be honest, the tank is not important for the BluFor at all. It rarely makes it through the map and when it does, the intel it collects is minimal compared to a few guys with shotguns and the odds of it really helping assault a cache is low with the number of caches that spawn in the city.

hat kit is useful when? you have a choice to use a different kit to do the same result if not better.

if the tank is down then the bombcars and bombtrucks are free to target those would be shotgunners. the tank can help alot if used correctly.

i have another good point. its unrealistic in every way.

and back on topic this is about an option to not have them on insurgency. say if x server wants them in, then they can. but if y server doesn't then they dont have to admin the ppl doing it and just use that version?

[Rudd]

CE minus C4 would work fine in leu of anything better, and a HAT with AT4(s) as another person stated would also be acceptable, though more debatable.

[HAAN4]

CE minus C4 would work fine in leu of anything better, and a HAT with AT4(s) as another person stated would also be acceptable, though more debatable.

I guess it's a ever better solution if we give 4 LATs instead of 2 doupla LATs kits.

I mean, the insurgents will be not ablle to kill a tank whicht a single shoot and the Bluefor squad will be ablle to deal whicht Suciede bomb cars and tecnical more times that usuel.

this will not make the life of APCs miserable because simples there is't any APC for insurgents, and the life of a Crewman can't get more bad that in insurgency anyway, because the mines, the ALOT RPGS, hoever. insurgent team is very well equipended to deal whicht armored treats.

also the insurgents still able to get some headsome rewards, because a LAT is everthing a Insurgent want, a scope rifle, a decent Anti tank gun, and a frist aid path. this will make everboby happys, no douth.

i sugested 4 LATs because bluefor also recive 2 LAT because the AA anyway.

[Inca_Killa]

This sounds like a server specific issue and if the server rules don't cover this issue then they should. I know of a couple servers that have posted no HAT/CE kits rules for BluFor, you should be able to rely on the players to report someone breaking that kind of rule, and if someone is intentionally handing a kit over to the other team or ghosting for caches, you should ban them.

This isn't a problem on TG, while there will always be the occasional person who loses the kit the majority of the time players will educate the player by letting them know how damaging it is to BluFor if they lose the kit or use the chain of command to deny the kit. When they are lost on occasion the game is not ruined, the kit just needs to be reclaimed. If the problem is the player base on a server, maybe that should be addressed?

Admins shouldn't have to police kits, it'd be much more simple to remove HAT/C4 from CE/AA, and you wouldn't lose much gameplay, seriously. A LAT can do anything a HAT can and its not game breaking.

IF the devs would remove those kits/remove C4, it would be like a birthday present to admins everywhere.

[TheOldBreed]

absolutely not. sometimes i find the SRAW is extremely useful in insurgency mode. this one time, in Korengal, we were at outpost observing from the trench line, and a cache marker appeared. funnily enough it was below us in the valley. found it with the binos, clear line of sight, request HAT, select SRAW, wait, fire, boom, cache down. couldn't have done that with an AT4 could I

[Serbiak]

I Agree that it can be a problem but they actually take HATs to insurgency.

who took HAT on insurgency?!

Best comment in a while

But its too bad it destroys our arguments against taking a hat on insurgency

That´s what Ferron said to these Fotos:
Click here for HD-Version

Click here for HD-Version

[Total_Overkill]

absolutely not. sometimes i find the SRAW is extremely useful in insurgency mode. this one time, in Korengal, we were at outpost observing from the trench line, and a cache marker appeared. funnily enough it was below us in the valley. found it with the binos, clear line of sight, request HAT, select SRAW, wait, fire, boom, cache down. couldn't have done that with an AT4 could I

Clear line of sight on a cache in Korengal?
Hmm, if thats the case, i wonder what weapons could kill the cache
Sniper
HAT
LAT
Marksmen
SAW/PKM
... actually, a couple guys just spamming with M16s can kill it ??:
(ponders how many rocks it takes to kill a cache)

[ryan d ale]

I've read the first few pages of the thread and want to make my opinion seen:

I'm against the idea
C4 can open gates too
Anti Tank does have a tactical role to play: cache destroying, destroying vehicles stationary and on the move, anti-infantry, building destruction, supression.

I like what Charlie came up with but it can't happen (keeping the ammo if it has any) as a compromise but I like things as they are. If some fool drops it then a fool drops it.

[snooggums]

Admins shouldn't have to police kits, it'd be much more simple to remove HAT/C4 from CE/AA, and you wouldn't lose much gameplay, seriously. A LAT can do anything a HAT can and its not game breaking.

IF the devs would remove those kits/remove C4, it would be like a birthday present to admins everywhere.

Admins don't have to police kits any more than they need to police teamkilling or griefing. If they consider taking a HAT out of main make it a rule and treat it like griefing and leave the kits alone.

Most player decision making problems should be addressed through the servers, not through the game. HATs in insurgency is realistic, using them stupidly is a teamwork and server issue.

Again, I'm an admin who loves insurgency and stupidly losing a HAT or two to the insurgents doesn't ruin a round.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

So, like friendly fire, it is an issue when people are jerks and hurt their own team on purpose?

Sounds like an issue for server administration.

This has nothing to do with server admining, which would be flipping impossible. To force at leastr 2 admin to watch each side to see if some prick is going to hand over a kit, that in reality, would never be there in the first place is asinine. The kits need to be fixed, in some manner. From both gameplay and admin perspectives, these kits do not belong on an insurgency map in their current configuration.

[barbdwyer22]

Admins don't have to police kits any more than they need to police teamkilling or griefing. If they consider taking a HAT out of main make it a rule and treat it like griefing and leave the kits alone.

Most player decision making problems should be addressed through the servers, not through the game. HATs in insurgency is realistic, using them stupidly is a teamwork and server issue.

Again, I'm an admin who loves insurgency and stupidly losing a HAT or two to the insurgents doesn't ruin a round.

Also, we are given these weapon systems to utilize inside cities. We use them to take out enemy positions all the time in real life.

The difference is: 1) We rarely lose them 2) They are disposable 3) insurgents do not have spare AT4/SRAWs laying around some crappy underground cache (a lot of them are buried).

What part of what I said earlier are you not understanding?
Yes, ONE CE and HAT can ruin a game, especially large maps with open ground. I have seen lots of armor destroyed in one round because one guy was just reloading on a cache, running up a hill and one shotting stuff, rinse and repeat, it is ridiculous.
As an admin of HARDCORE servers, I am not about to sit around and watch both sides to ensure people do not take these kits out.

It is so funny, everyone sits around and makes all these assumptions on nothing they really know about, yet someone who has actually been there and done that and is scheduled to do it again, no one listens to.

[mat552]

Why can it not be a player's job to help enforce the rules lol? HARDCORE players are downright vicious when it comes to defending your named squad/asset rules, up to and including having forced me to tk to get the asset for themselves. I can only assume that they'd take to reporting those running off willy nilly with the heavy kits just as seriously.
As far as ruining a round goes? That's pretty subjective. Armor rarely helps anyway, thundering fatty rumbling around, attracting all the bomb cars and rpgs, but none of the insurgents guarding the actual cache up close. I can have plenty of fun without armor, it's not like bluefor is/was going to/can ever win anyway. (Barring the ins team screwing up royally)

That's simply the nature of the gamemode.

[=]H[=CubCadet1972]

Why can it not be a player's job to help enforce the rules lol? HARDCORE players are downright vicious when it comes to defending your named squad/asset rules, up to and including having forced me to tk to get the asset for themselves. I can only assume that they'd take to reporting those running off willy nilly with the heavy kits just as seriously.
As far as ruining a round goes? That's pretty subjective. Armor rarely helps anyway, thundering fatty rumbling around, attracting all the bomb cars and rpgs, but none of the insurgents guarding the actual cache up close. I can have plenty of fun without armor, it's not like bluefor is/was going to/can ever win anyway. (Barring the ins team screwing up royally)

That's simply the nature of the gamemode.

Some regulars are that vicious, but it still causes the admin to have to drop everything and deal with a situation that shouldn't exist in the first place.

Since PR's player count isn't really all that high, we have taken it upon ourself to try to teach the newer players instead of just banning them for stupid mistakes like some servers are known to do. The downside is that griefers crawl out of the woodwork to intentionally ruin the game play. The HAT and CE kits being handed over are a common occurrence, in fact, we currently have an active ban appeal in our forums for just that. The player wanted to "work an arms deal" with the other side.

The CE and HAT kit are just fine for AAS maps, but they need a revamp for INS.

[Acemantura]

We should keep them in just to piss off the Hardcore Clan

Other than that, it should probably be a server choice, with most servers choosing to leave them out.

Perhaps the Admins at HArdcore should adopt the CIA way of Admining, be an Admin First and a Player second.