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Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 12:06
by _casualtyUR
Limeni[BiH],
it's private because someone invented it and they do not want it it in the public domain. I'm sure you've heard of intellectual property rights. You can write a mortar calculating program and give it out for no charge.
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 12:17
by Kain888
'Limeni[BiH wrote:;1564281']So if I create something that will help me to, I dunno, run faster in the Olympic games I don't have to share that with the community cause it's my intellectual property and I don't wanna give it for free to other noob sprinters???
Well pretty much yes, unless it's like doping.
That's why some time ago swimmers kept in secret their visits in oxygen tanks. :>
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 15:14
by _casualtyUR
LOL, competitors dont test others for doping; the governing build does the testing.
The PR admins have looked at this software and APPROVED it's use.
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 17:56
by Hitperson
_casualtyUR wrote:LOL, competitors dont test others for doping; the governing build does the testing.
The PR admins have looked at this software and APPROVED it's use.
correcttion the
PRT this has nothing to do with the official stance from the management team over here.
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 18:19
by Bisclaveret
'Limeni[BiH wrote:;1564271']Why is it a private property? Do they have something to hide or...?
It's private because they want to use it in the PRT on the NATO side and don't want CATA to have it.
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 18:22
by Chase Armitage
Which is perfectly understandable.
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 18:30
by Spec
Not it isn't.
They can't be forced to share it, but there's no need to keep it away from CATA, unless they want to win so badly that they don't even want the other players to have the same tools. I wouldn't share my strategies and tactics with the "enemy", but why not share the programs I created them with?
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 18:44
by Hitperson
Spec_Operator wrote:Not it isn't.
They can't be forced to share it, but there's no need to keep it away from CATA, unless they want to win so badly that they don't even want the other players to have the same tools. I wouldn't share my strategies and tactics with the "enemy", but why not share the programs I created them with?
oh please...
what you are saying is one and the same.
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 19:45
by qs-racer
just unfair...
(love the tag of the topic^^)
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 19:50
by Spec
Hitperson wrote:oh please...
what you are saying is one and the same.
No? I'm sorry if I'm sounding overly harsh, and certainly don't want to start any flames in here, but there is a difference between a tool and a plan?
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-18 20:12
by Bisclaveret
Draakon wrote:*cough* *cough*
Read the thread people next time. IT IS available for public.
Then we're talking about 2 different ones. The one i'm talking about is made by ZuluActual and is called SBCS. As posted in the TG forums:
As Ytman pointed out quite accurately it is an external application coded in JAVA and completely independent of the game itself. In short it allows the calculation of an elevation and angle value for each shot of an individually configured firemission taking your current (manually adjusted) home position and elevation as well as the position and elevation of your target into account . When talking about individually configured firemission it means using one of the four featured Type of Mission modes as a basis for the calculations. The modes are Point-To-Point (PTP), Keypad (KP), MultiMainGrids (MMG) and FireForEffect (FFE). For the sake of better understanding imagine those modes as different kinds of geometric shapes that are shot as the result. They all strive to achieve maximum effect on target depending on the situation and target distribution. Additionally the current state of development enables the prebattle predesignation of targets by callsign and as you may have guessed the utilization of heightmaps for automatic compensation of relative height differences. There are more features mostly for a convenience and efficiency increasing purpose.
That is all I am currently allowed to say.
Should you wonder if I am going to release this to the public the short to mid-term answer is no. I will be exclusively employing SBCS for one more campaign in the PR:T on the side of NATO and probably in NATO CHARLIE if possible. Should you like to use it yourself as soon as possible I suggest signing up with NATO on the next campaign. After that we can talk public release.
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-19 06:13
by ThirdSin
Maybe you can help me get my head around why this is being "OK'd"
Is there another application that uses information from the game (not hooking in) to provide any kind of advantage to someone using it? No, voice programs don't count, they are available, common place, and often encouraged.
I guess i'm trying to look for any sort of precedent for this sort of thing.
Personally I think it's lame. Play the game with the guns and tools provided IN THE GAME. I really can't think of any other FPS where this sort of thing is condoned. (WOW doesn't count... lol).
Perhaps i'll just go back to yelling at those darn neighborhood kids to get off my lawn. Doesn't look like anyone is having a change of opinion on this.
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-20 01:52
by ThirdSin
Draakon wrote:They actually do the same thing.
Good idea, let's stop using mumble and use the in-game VOIP.
Perhaps you missed this point.
No, voice programs don't count, they are available, common place, and often encouraged.
Look, I don't participate in any of the contests where my opponent is likely to use this calc. Heck, even if someone did use it against me how am I any the wiser? So I could really care less whether using this tool really creates an advantage for the person/team using it.
Call me crazy, but I find it a bit nuts we even have to talk about some super secret calculator for a video game... I'm drifting OT, i'll end with this - If they want an edge in game that bad, let'm have it. I'll just sneak in and ruin their day with a bayonet to the back. WHERE'S YOUR CALCULATOR NOW PUNK!?
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-20 10:15
by Spec
No. A third party voice program is encouraged by the administrators of the servers it is used on. This program might not even be known to them.
Imagine we'd be building PR2 at the moment, and we decided to integrate an awesome voice over IP system in-game that allows for perfect distance-related communication, squad channels, inter-squad channels, commander channels and any other custom channels one might want, as well as an admin channel and a player-to-admin channel. None but the last two can be used while one is dead to avoid giving intel you only have while you are dead.
Under these very specific circumstances, a server admin might decide not to allow third party voice or chat programs. Then I would consider those cheats, too.
In PR and very likely PR2, however, no such system is in place and no server forbids the use of third party voice programs. Also, they are commonly known to everybody playing this game and mentioned in the game manual, on most servers rules etc.
The game was designed with third party voice programs in mind. It was NOT designed with mortar calculators in mind. (It was, however, designed with normal calculators in mind, and those are too mentioned in the game and known to all players)
Re: is a 3rd party mortar calculator a hack ?
Posted: 2011-03-20 14:14
by Gracler
I can't think of any FPS games that encourage you to use a 3rd party "program" that isn't part of the original mod or game install package, that has an effect on the game-play itself.
Discussing if the effect is a lot or not cant really be discussed.
If i used a wall hack just to stand in the wall and look at people passing by then it isn't a cheat? of-course it is a cheat your having an advantage that others do not, its your fault your not good at exploiting it properly though
