Project Reality Forums

x4 zoom doesnt mean he'll be on a hill 600m away sniping the enemy...

if you think that having a x4 scope stops the SL leading, then I'd like to see you apply that logic to every conventional team ingame.

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:x4 zoom doesnt mean he'll be on a hill 600m away sniping the enemy...

if you think that having a x4 scope stops the SL leading, then I'd like to see you apply that logic to every conventional team ingame.

Can't say anything agains.Thats all,what I talking about in previous post.

If someone suggest optics - he are lone wolf,thats squad player.In teamplayable squad you never die,if all squad got ironsights.

samogon100500 wrote:Can't say anything agains.Thats all,what I talking about in previous post.

If someone suggest optics - he are lone wolf,thats squad player.In teamplayable squad you never die,if all squad got ironsights.

So all factions should have scopes removed? If you say "No, you can just request ironsights", well guess what, you can do the same here. I still stand by on giving it to SL and specialist.

Stealthgato wrote:So all factions should have scopes removed? If you say "No, you can just request ironsights", well guess what, you can do the same here. I still stand by on giving it to SL and specialist.

No of course.It's just an example.Well SL = rifleman with ability to request deployable assets and got 3 bandages thats one.Not sure thats good idea to give scope them.every one,who want optics will create his own squad just to have that.Did you can't don't fight at long range and search CQB fight in place,where you got higher chances to win the fight.Deep forest or houses for example.

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:x4 zoom doesnt mean he'll be on a hill 600m away sniping the enemy...

if you think that having a x4 scope stops the SL leading, then I'd like to see you apply that logic to every conventional team ingame.

I wouldn't like to mix the role of SL with marksman that's all. SL should have the same zoom than riflemen.
And of course I can apply the same logic to conventional armys, i wouldn't like to see SL in conventional armys to have sniper rifle (or any x8 zoom weapon) as an option.

It doesnt automatically mean SL will be sniping from far away and forget about SL but it highly increases the chances. Aswell as that would increase a lot the chances of most militian squads beeing only (SL,medic,specialist,marksman-sniper)

I prefer optics, almost everyone prefers optics but militia forces you to play AAS maps differently and that's fun too.

just give the militia the akm 74 scope back, for keeping balance at the AAS and for some other reasons. Or remove all Scopes from the opposite.
Scope only for SL is senless like Scope only for Specialist!
SL + standart rifleman.
kits like lat, gl can still equipped with unscopes.

samogon100500 wrote: If they can't make needed quantity of weapon - where they found needed quantity of scopes.Main problem for them - ammo.1 Scope = ~1000 round.Bad quality scope(~1.5) - 300 round.Not sure that so good idea to buy to much scopes.

that's exactly why i suggest having it limited. my post says specifically that the number should be LOW no matter how much you prove that it is impractical for them ALL toi have them that doesn't counter the fact that they would be available. WHICH IS the point i am trying to make.

Bellator wrote:You could probably hire a gunman in the third world with the same amount of money that you'd spend on a scope (let's say 200 dollars). And it isn't just a question of affordability, but also availability: 1P29s don't exactly grow on trees. So, no, I don't see any reason why scopes should be widely wielded by militia, especially by militia that seems to operate strictly in woodland and urban terrains where its utility is further reduced. Also, If you look at the media pictures of various third world militias, they rarely wield scoped assault rifles in any significant scale.

read above. again, limited, regardless of how few they will have i feel it is important that they should be available. please reference my earliest post for my restrictions on the scoped rifleman kit. the numbers are of course subject to change, i just want them to be there.

samogon100500 wrote:Can't say anything agains.Thats all,what I talking about in previous post.

Not at all. It's still been the discussing (not at the last page but before) about how and if it is possible for Chechen forces to have scoped rifles. And now we got some feedback from the DEV's which tells us that in fact it is possible. And perhaps we will see scoped rifles for Militia in the next version.

Rudd talked about a scoped version of the Rifleman Specialist and the Officer Kit.

In my opinion, a scoped Officer would be great. Normally he is the one walking in front of the whole squad and the first one spotting enemies. He is telling the rest where enemy fire is coming from. It is easier for him to spot enemies on bigger distances.

The Specialist itself should not become equipped with a scoped rifle. I would suggest a kit, limited squad internal to 2 and team internal to about 10 to 12 with scopes on it. You will still have the choice to request all other standart kits in the spawn menu and in addition to request a limited kit which could be requested e.g. before moving into forest regions.

KeksTerror wrote:Rudd talked about a scoped version of the Rifleman Specialist and the Officer Kit.

Well they talking about RS kit only.Not SL,watch previews posts.
If in your country standard service rifle in army got scope or holo-sight - this is don't means thats every army must have same.

Bringerof_D wrote:read above. again, limited, regardless of how few they will have i feel it is important that they should be available. please reference my earliest post for my restrictions on the scoped rifleman kit. the numbers are of course subject to change, i just want them to be there.

Well - standard rifleman was not limited.Anyone will do not take any limited kit,and go with rifleman,because they much "better" thats any limited.Only 8 mans per 32 player team can get it and 9 per 64 team - this is much real quantity of scopes thats 55 per 64 or more.

samogon100500 wrote:Well they talking about RS kit only.Not SL,watch previews posts.
If in your country standard service rifle in army got scope or holo-sight - this is don't means thats every army must have same.

The German G36 in it's regular edition got an aimpoint + scope. But that's got nothing to do with the topic itself.

samogon100500 wrote: Well - standard rifleman was not limited.Anyone will do not take any limited kit,and go with rifleman,because they much "better" thats any limited.Only 8 mans per 32 player team can get it and 9 per 64 team - this is much real quantity of scopes thats 55 per 64 or more.

standard rifleman isn't currently a limited kit but you can make it so. just like how there's limited AR kits or marksman kits or medic kits. It should be possible to remove the scoped rifleman for Militia from the spawn menu and leave the iron sights. that way all rifleman must spawn iron, then request scoped which will have limited numbers.

KeksTerror wrote:The German G36 in it's regular edition got an aimpoint + scope. But that's got nothing to do with the topic itself.

No,very many.Standard for G36 - optics sight + aimpoint,Standard for L85 - susat.USarmy upgrade their soldiers SSR,because they go needed money supplies.
AK - got ironsight in standard.And no one cares to update it,because IRL the works well with iron sight,it was in soviet union and in russian army(Supplies some scopes,but majority got irons).For SVD scope = standard also.Well,if soviet army never buy a scopes,and militia got old soviet arsenal - where they found a scopes for each soldier(Riflemans - majority of all infantry).

It's isn't about "realism" or wether militia IRL have scopes or not. In the game the screen is much smaller than it should be so on some distance a man becomes only one or two pixels and you need the scope to see them. In vBF2 all weapons have some zoom. IRL you can hit a target at 400 m with ironsight. I wonder if you can se it in BF2. Then, to give such a huge advantage to scoped weapons is unfair.

PR is a game and for balance sake militia should have scope on both the lmg and a rifle and or SL.

samogon100500 wrote:No,very many.Standard for G36 - optics sight + aimpoint,Standard for L85 - susat.USarmy upgrade their soldiers SSR,because they go needed money supplies.
AK - got ironsight in standard.And no one cares to update it,because IRL the works well with iron sight,it was in soviet union and in russian army(Supplies some scopes,but majority got irons).For SVD scope = standard also.Well,if soviet army never buy a scopes,and militia got old soviet arsenal - where they found a scopes for each soldier(Riflemans - majority of all infantry).

You always compare the whole "reality" thing with the game. There's a big problem. A game is keeps beeing a game. In case you want to build a game that features any kind of weapons used by a conventional army like the British or another - I wish you pretty much luck and a lot of time to do this. You won't have a complete arsenal of the Chechen-used weapons but there have to be some improvements.

At least I do not undestand why you always try to begin a new disussing about scopes. Your arguments do not become more valid then before...

manligheten wrote:It's isn't about "realism" or wether militia IRL have scopes or not. In the game the screen is much smaller than it should be so on some distance a man becomes only one or two pixels and you need the scope to see them. In vBF2 all weapons have some zoom. IRL you can hit a target at 400 m with ironsight. I wonder if you can se it in BF2. Then, to give such a huge advantage to scoped weapons is unfair.

PR is a game and for balance sake militia should have scope on both the lmg and a rifle and or SL.

if militia have russian scopes for rifleman and ARs, then Russia should get reddots, if we are going the game play way

to give such a huge advantage to scoped weapons is unfair

they have no advantage, if you can see a pixel you can shoot it, also sometimes you dont need to start shooting the very moment you see someone at a huge distance.
and i have a 16" laptop monitor with a max res of 1366x768 i do just fine with irons, or reddots

Lack of scopes forces militia to have a different play style then other factions, which is more focused on quick strikes, get in close fast where they have a good chance of killing the enemy, and a very defensive/ambush style, if you give them scopes, then they are just like the russian faction, and thats no fun.

EDIT: Pretty much the only argument for having scopes for militia is
- i dont want to learn how to play, its too hard for me, i want scopez NAO

manligheten wrote:It's isn't about "realism" or wether militia IRL have scopes or not. In the game the screen is much smaller than it should be so on some distance a man becomes only one or two pixels and you need the scope to see them. In vBF2 all weapons have some zoom. IRL you can hit a target at 400 m with ironsight. I wonder if you can se it in BF2. Then, to give such a huge advantage to scoped weapons is unfair.

Well - 300 meters was effective fire distance. 5.45 and 5.56 round caliber pretty sensitive for weather(Such as wind or rain),they easy can change his trajectory.Al what more that this distance - work for MG and DMRs.Of course - at firefange you can hit a target at this distance,but in real fight - not sure.

karambaitos wrote:they have no advantage, if you can see a pixel you can shoot it, also sometimes you dont need to start shooting the very moment you see someone at a huge distance.
and i have a 16" laptop monitor with a max res of 1366x768 i do just fine with irons, or reddots

Lack of scopes forces militia to have a different play style then other factions, which is more focused on quick strikes, get in close fast where they have a good chance of killing the enemy, and a very defensive/ambush style, if you give them scopes, then they are just like the russian faction, and thats no fun.

It's a big fail shooting at long distance,with enemy who got better weapon that you.With irons you can fight at long distance with some practice.Just you need different gameplay style,that those,what you does with optics.You are completely right - at ~100meter distance they pretty effective,with some practice - you can shoot at longer distances.

The Militia is a Psuedo conventional force and I like them for that! They normally win Fools Road and Dragonfly goes both ways consistently... Ochamchira (old version) would often see the Brits succumb to the Militia as well. I personally take unscoped weaponry majority of the time as CQ scoping is too time consuming.

karambaitos wrote:if militia have russian scopes for rifleman and ARs, then Russia should get reddots, if we are going the game play way

Reddots dont have zoom. It isn't comparable.

karambaitos wrote: they have no advantage, if you can see a pixel you can shoot it, also sometimes you dont need to start shooting the very moment you see someone at a huge distance.
and i have a 16" laptop monitor with a max res of 1366x768 i do just fine with irons, or reddots

Lack of scopes forces militia to have a different play style then other factions, which is more focused on quick strikes, get in close fast where they have a good chance of killing the enemy, and a very defensive/ambush style, if you give them scopes, then they are just like the russian faction, and thats no fun.

EDIT: Pretty much the only argument for having scopes for militia is
- i dont want to learn how to play, its too hard for me, i want scopez NAO

You can't learn to play with out scopes. On distance, squad versus squad, the militia will lose, as they don't see what they hit or if they hit. In close both teams have the same opportunity. How ever you do, you'll end up with the short straw as militia.

Milita had scopes back in the day and the games were more even. Then they were removed for unclear reasons. The militias draw back should be lack of armor and air units, not worse small arms. It doesn't work in AAS if one team is nerfed. It's like IDF vs Hamas in Asad Khal. IDF got scoped SAW. Hamas got unscoped PKM.

samogon100500 wrote:Well - 300 meters was effective fire distance. 5.45 and 5.56 round caliber pretty sensitive for weather(Such as wind or rain),they easy can change his trajectory.Al what more that this distance - work for MG and DMRs.Of course - at firefange you can hit a target at this distance,but in real fight - not sure.

Well, at 300 m I'll hit 2 out of 3 shoots at a standing target. At 400 m I'll hit like 1 out of 3. My point is that iron in game is worse than scopes in a exaggerated way. Things get very small at 100 m ingame due to "game field of vision".

manligheten wrote:Reddots dont have zoom. It isn't comparable.

sure it is, its a unrealistic gameplay feature for russia to have reddots, and they dont have them, same militia shouldnt have scopes even though its a fictional faction, it wouldnt be realistic for them to have scopes which are already available in small numbers,
which are also very expensive.

You can't learn to play with out scopes. On distance, squad versus squad, the militia will lose, as they don't see what they hit or if they hit. In close both teams have the same opportunity. How ever you do, you'll end up with the short straw as militia.

militia isnt the only faction, its a different faction and it should remain as such, it forces different game play, and tactics

Milita had scopes back in the day and the games were more even. Then they were removed for unclear reasons.

they were removed because they arent realistic, and i guess for gameplay reasons.

The militias draw back should be lack of armor and air units, not worse small arms. It doesn't work in AAS if one team is nerfed. It's like IDF vs Hamas in Asad Khal. IDF got scoped SAW. Hamas got unscoped PKM.

it does, work, ive actually seen hamas win more games on asad khal then tha IDF because the hamas use hit and run and defensive tactics, they only engage on their conditions where they can win easily, also there is not one map AAS where hamas or militia arent in a environment which is better suited for iron sights then scopes

and the only reason still remains is, give militia scopes because i dont like iron sights, and dont like trying new things out.

300m with ironsight! tzz. stop talking unkown shit. ofc you can shot when you see a pixel, but a scoped rifleman will beat you at 300 meters because he could get a cover with 10% bodysight. You guys play PR at the cinema right?
Guys, no one care about your prefers also no one care about your "known about realism" .

We talking about BALANCING, and if you guys no need scope at cqc use ironsight stop spamming here your favourite weapon.
Smogon sorry man do not take it personally but you talking bullshit only. Doesnt matter and dont care what appliance the russian army use/used.

If you need Realism than go to the Russian army and take PR at the reallife. should you die at combat (god forbid) than dont wonder when you are not reviveble!!!
over!