Project Reality Forums

I don't think that the problem is PR vets acting elitist. When i'm SL i don't allow ppl without mic or mumble in the squad because a game like this should not be played without it. It improves the gameplay experience so much its just insane! But never in my life would i kick someone for not knowing how to do something and say "OMG uninstall PR you noob". The people that are doing this are often kids from MW or BF3 that for some reason found PR instead. And if they are not kids well grow up god damn it.

Something i do see however is that ppl join my squad but they are not doing anything of what im saying and never listens. They are completely ignorant and refuse to learn witch result in me kicking them and for the that i get called a noob and allot of other bad things in chat. They even try to get me kicked O.o

In my eyes the new guys need to pay attention to the SL at all times, If he dose this everyone is happy and he will learn allot of new things. If the newguy is just acting like a idiot not listening or following orders, doing stuff without asking well the kick is coming.

Treat other as you would like to be treated!

Show your respect for the SL and he will show you his.

As a PRTA admin I'll try to add "that comms are essencial in this game" when informing them that Mumble is mandatory and if they need any help with it.
The helping lines seem to be getting longer and longer...

Some members in PRTA have already started New Players squads. I'm sure others are doing it as well, but we need more volunteers and for this method to stick throughout 1.0 release.

T.A.Sharps wrote:Everyone.

To the OP.

The one and only problem that PR has always had, but is just more prevalent now, is...
Elitism

I remember posting in SEVERAL threads advocating for the "NOOBS"!

P.R. Vets always had horrible prejudice toward NOOBS.

People here that gain experience... suddenly think a New Player is the worst thing ever, and totally ignore the fact that without "NOOBS" Project Reality goes away. AND ALL OF US WERE NOOBS HERE ONCE TOO!

How elitist and delusional do you have to be to not realize that!

A store can't stay open if it has no customers!

People always want to talk about the community here... B.S.

And that is what new people get when they come here.

I think you missed part of the point. People are aware without new blood the community will die. That's not the point.

Also I may be wrong on this but I believe that typing in large font like that is against the forum rules.



The attitude in general should change toward new players trying to learn the game, just give up a bit of time & voila you might have a new guy to play with. The ones who just ignore you after various attempts to communicate via Text/VOIP or any other way. Fuck em.

Patience is key

I would just recommend one thing which looks rather banal, but in my eyes is not:

Rework the mod description! And on the way to the download link you need a few... yes, I would call them even "warnings", that this mod is not suited for some people.

If you mention that...

... mumble is more or less mandatory
... you need to listen to what other people tell you, even if you don't know them at all
... a big part of the time is spent waiting or running
... skills like "aiming" and "reflexes" are not really needed at all (at least not the "Counter Strike"-kind of skills)
... the game is complicated, and that you will spend a lot of time reading, learning and dying before actaully having real fun

you will have both effects, most wrong players deterred and those who still insist don't have the wrong expectations. I can't stress enough how important expectations are for a first impression, and how the first impression can determine the entire rest of a gaming career. In multiplayer games the first impression also determines the community's attitude towards you, which is also vital for your gaming career.

The developers made some things already perfectly right, like installing mumble together with the mod and placing the manual on the desktop, but I fear that won't be enough. Call it catering or whatever, but you have to adjust to modern times.

Joker86 wrote:... skills like "aiming" and "reflexes" are not really needed at all (at least not the "Counter Strike"-kind of skills)

This is wrong. This kind of attitude is one of the main reasons why 90% of players(and not talking about new players) are just really bad. They might be fun and easy to get along with, but they are just bad.

I simply don't hold with the viewpoint that it's the new players that are the problem, as I said previously new players are generally quite predictable and I don't think they cause that much of a problem. It's the players who have been around a while and think they know it all that causes issues.

One of the main issues I see is asset whoring. Now I may be wrong but I believe it's much easier to really understand how the game works and what the team needs if you are on the ground. I'm not dismissing the value of assets it's just that I see day in day out people join a server when a round is underway who wont do what the team needs at the time and will just make an apc/tank/trans sqd because that's what they want to do.
Most of the time I see this behaviour it usually results in a quick death for the vehicle because after all, how can they possibly know what's going on on the map,where the enemy is or where is best to go. I think that a lot of clan players are very guilty of this especially when they come on to a server with only 2 of them.So instead of making maybe a much needed infantry squad they just drive off into the sunset to shoot stuff and these are players that probably think they know the game and are good.

Also on nearly every server I play on at start of the round a simple "who is defending and who is attacking" question would solve a whole lot of fuck ups that I see daily, but this rarely happens nowadays.

With the gameplay having sped up over recent releases it's becoming more and more like vanilla with people just going backwards and forwards to flags as they keep changing hands and with few people seeing the advantage of having fobs BEHIND your own lines. Instead we now see the all too common sight of logi rushing to try and build that leet fob right on top of the enemy,this almost never works especially at the start when all the other team in theory are alive and looking for you.And yet I see the same people doing it time after time after time.Einstein's definition of insanity springs to mind regarding this.


After 5 or so years of playing this mod I too feel somewhat jaded playing because although the phrase "communication is key" is constantly spouted there never seems to be much of that going on. Sick and tired of trying to talk to so called mumble squads who suddenly become mute once the game starts. Sick and tired of people not getting the fact that if you help each other out instead of doing your own thing then the game is so much easier and by extension more fun and sick and tired of being left to defend a flag time after time because "defending is boring" when these same people are fucking useless at attacking.

In short there is far too much selfishness and far too much me,me ,me for a team game to work as well as it should.

smiley wrote:...

Very good points in your post! Never read anything from you before but it seems that there is a working brain behind that avatar.

I'm happy with what i get from PR atm. Yer thing's were different back in day, but that's history.

I dont go looking for l33t server's/player's to play on/with, i still enjoy PR and for me its more about who i get on with than who is "elite" enough for me to play with.

I'm glad that our server is always up and i can get a decent game in atleast once a day, ofcourse someday's are frustrating and nothing works..but hey that's life.


I think if you or your clan set's a high standard of gameplay, you will inevitably struggle to find it.



btw agree with Smiley.

L4gi wrote:This is wrong. This kind of attitude is one of the main reasons why 90% of players(and not talking about new players) are just really bad. They might be fun and easy to get along with, but they are just bad.

Would you care to explain?

Because from what I have experienced so far, due to deviation, it doesn't matter if you can put the (invisible) crosshair over the head of an enemy which just came around the corner within a split second or not, because the bullets won't hit where you are aiming at, anyway.

Of course reflexes matters when both you and the enemy know where the other one is, and one of you is coming around the corner/looking over the edge, but pressing the mouse button as soon as something moves into your (already waiting) crosshair isn't so much of a special skill...

Or do you want to tell me PR is about who is the best and fastest mouse marksman? I would say it's about the right tactic, which is rather about positioning, stealth and surprise. Or pure (guided) covering fire.

Edit: this was my post #69. I feel naughty now...

This topic has only brought one new thing to light (at least for me) on the subject at hand. I can sum it up quite nicely; Respect is a two way road.

I've seen both sides of the argument being dicks to the other and it becomes a vicious repetitive cycle that has slowly replaced the older methods of mentor/apprentice.

smiley wrote:After 5 or so years of playing this mod I too feel somewhat jaded playing because although the phrase "communication is key" is constantly spouted there never seems to be much of that going on. Sick and tired of trying to talk to so called mumble squads who suddenly become mute once the game starts. Sick and tired of people not getting the fact that if you help each other out instead of doing your own thing then the game is so much easier and by extension more fun and sick and tired of being left to defend a flag time after time because "defending is boring" when these same people are fucking useless at attacking.

In short there is far too much selfishness and far too much me,me ,me for a team game to work as well as it should.

Excellent post, this sums it up, you basically just copy & past'd my thoughts.

Joker86 wrote:Text

It is about skill and reactions. Switch to full auto, and anything within 150 meters is dead. Waiting for deviation to settle gets you killed. It doesnt matter if its CQB or shooting in the forest, when you get your sights up and unload on the enemy, he dies. Biggest mistake most people make is having their gun on semi auto, crouch/prone as soon as they see the enemy, wait 6 seconds and start shooting single shots. By that time full auto fire has either killed you or made you run into cover.

Sure you can do what you want to make it an immersive experience, but if you dont want to get killed this is the the shortest way to success. A lot of people might not like this way of fighting, but I for one dont care. It works -> use it.

TL;DR: Fastest on the trigger -> You win.

Success in PR is more a matter of position, positional awareness, and the ability to predict what the enemy is going to do than pure reflexes in my opinion. Not that reflexes don't net kills, too.

I agree with you on that. You also need to know how guns work to take full advantage of what you mentioned.

L4gi wrote:It is about skill and reactions. Switch to full auto, and anything within 150 meters is dead. Waiting for deviation to settle gets you killed. It doesnt matter if its CQB or shooting in the forest, when you get your sights up and unload on the enemy, he dies. Biggest mistake most people make is having their gun on semi auto, crouch/prone as soon as they see the enemy, wait 6 seconds and start shooting single shots. By that time full auto fire has either killed you or made you run into cover.

Sure you can do what you want to make it an immersive experience, but if you dont want to get killed this is the the shortest way to success. A lot of people might not like this way of fighting, but I for one dont care. It works -> use it.

TL;DR: Fastest on the trigger -> You win.

Quite true up to a point and one of the biggest (unintended) turn offs of Deviation, a system which I fully understand and support the aims of.

When you have intelligently out manoeuvred your opponent there is nothing more frustrating when operating your weapon in a logical manner than to have it (roll the dice) miss due to deviation and be killed by your slapdash unaware target because he went rock and roll and painted the area you were standing in whilst spinning around in a blind panic.

The cruel law of unintended consequences. Introduce a system to encourage realistic play, have players ignore it because it eventually punishes the best (ie intelligent, precise, prepared) players. Damn you cruel irony lol.

After the last couple of days, one thing I feel compelled to say on the subject of elitism.

Locked infantry squads. These are fairly common, and I wish they were less so. The less experienced players on the server (and especially new players!) need competent SLs. The locked squads usually have them. It's not uncommon to see a situation with 2-3 locked infantry squads that have some 4 free-but-locked places between them, and a similar number of unaffiliated/less experienced players that are in no squads or in a passive squad, not learning, not getting much enjoyment from the game.

I understand that sometimes you want to play with your clanmates in a very effective manner, doing things you've trained for, and anyone else would just slow the squad down. Fine. But please try not to do that every round, let others play with you once in a while, especially if they are new.

I like semi with assault rifles at most ranges lol. More control.

Solver wrote:Locked infantry squads. These are fairly common, and I wish they were less so. The less experienced players on the server (and especially new players!) need competent SLs. The locked squads usually have them. It's not uncommon to see a situation with 2-3 locked infantry squads that have some 4 free-but-locked places between them, and a similar number of unaffiliated/less experienced players that are in no squads or in a passive squad, not learning, not getting much enjoyment from the game.

I don't even like the whole concept with clans, specially country specific clans.

Even when I see an english speaking clansquad with 5/6 I still feel kind of awkward to join.

L4gi wrote:It is about skill and reactions. Switch to full auto, and anything within 150 meters is dead. Waiting for deviation to settle gets you killed. It doesnt matter if its CQB or shooting in the forest, when you get your sights up and unload on the enemy, he dies. Biggest mistake most people make is having their gun on semi auto, crouch/prone as soon as they see the enemy, wait 6 seconds and start shooting single shots. By that time full auto fire has either killed you or made you run into cover.

Sure you can do what you want to make it an immersive experience, but if you dont want to get killed this is the the shortest way to success. A lot of people might not like this way of fighting, but I for one dont care. It works -> use it.

TL;DR: Fastest on the trigger -> You win.

This is true. There is some skill & knowledge and that is no xploitation. I too go around on full auto and spray the things that come into my view and if the mag empties or there is more, i go to the nearest cover to reaload and then flank or send more lead downrange.

After reading 3 posts after my last post. It seems this is going off topic. If you want to talk about what should be put into the downloads section or new players make another thread. This is meant to discuss Elistism in the community.

sweedensniiperr wrote:I don't even like the whole concept with clans, specially country specific clans.

Even when I see an english speaking clansquad with 5/6 I still feel kind of awkward to join.

What's so wrong with clan squads?