Project Reality Forums

Jabil_One wrote:
...... and actually we was the guys that bugged you on the hotel roof

HMG Emplacement needing scopes.

Nice teamwork there, but after a very near miss I placed myself so you couldn't hit me, it was the second tow shot who got me. Mission accomplished though, I only attracted fire so our tow could destroy yours, which it did seconds later. I'm a martyr!

Was fun. Doupt that the PR community is ready for this kind of ticket system, but works for closed events. Would love to try this on more forested or with hard cover maps so INF would have a bit more options on what to do once the heavy assets start rolling out. Like already pointed out, we had around 16 guys hiding in a tiny hole around D11 area as it was the only place where we could hide while waiting for more supplies to arrive.

Shoutout to that sniper south of H4 FOB. Good job at forcing our heads down, allowing the Chinese INF to push in.

@jabil - right clicking in HMG should be zoom in, unless it got removed on one of the latest updates.

Good job everyone. Looking foward for more

Thanks for organizators for efforts in balancing.

Game mode now is a VW with a vehicle shop. Whole concept might be applied for strategies but not for FPS. Infantry fight is a core of gameplay and allow to release masses of "fun tickets". In this gamemode on this map infantry fight had no serious application and consequences. Fighting against vehicles meant much but only 1-3 men of 8 able to do it, rest will die for nothing, like when you making mass infantry funerals in Wargame only 3-5 of 30 survive. If you die for nothing as bot dealing zero damage to enemy immersion breaks rapidly.

Wargame: Red Dragon have totally unpopular economy gamemode, in most aspects it matches with Redux. It can be won or by sitting on *** and making vehicle kills , or by using cheap cost-effective ****. After match I feel that we better sit on *** and camp in G8 rather than trying to move anywhere at all. Cost-effective shit spam impossible because PR don't have that many vehicles of various decades that can be classified as tank, apc or aa. Idea of spamming was already tested on WoF events when up to 10 uparmored Humwees with GMG and Avengers was deployed, that event was horrible.

Frontliner wrote:I hope that emphasizes how recon is a must-have for this game mode.

Two good figher pilots, 10 good crewmen and 10 infantry guys is all must-have for this gamemode since it is VW basically. Recon needed in each gamemode, not only in this one. Knowing where enemy is leads to VW gameplay not making any fun for ones who outside of vehicles.

Gameplay consisted of vehicle fights and backdooring with FOBs. IMO CNC basis is a sterile soil.

In this gamemode on this map infantry fight had no serious application and consequences.

That's a good point.

How it would look when infantry generate tickets for killing enemy infantry/vehicles or something similiar?

Congratulations Frontline, Cas and Alon, it was great and very interesting and awesome concept that has to be repeated (maybe once a month?)!

This was a bit dull for a lot of inf squads so maybe doing it in a more INF centered map would definitely be excellent!

Maybe make the Logis/Trans choppers be less expensive or have a system to get the crates faster since a lot of waiting had to be done.

This would definitely never work in pub servers, I can see asset whores just binge buying assets...

agus92 wrote: Maybe have the bigger assets even more expensive though, as Chinese when you fielded the hind+tank+bmp3 and we lost our assets, there was absolutely nothing the inf could do but die.

I wouldn't say that at all. Chrisweb and I only narrowly dogded your TOW shot because it banged into the wall. Had it hit the ground next to us we probably would've died because we were sparkling already.

If I were to increase the pricing on the assets while you die as infantry to these assets along with your FOB(s), then that would be even worse because not only do you not have TOWs and AAs available to defend yourself, you've also lost your income and have to reinvest heavily so that you can deal with the enemy assets.
And since tickets are also doubled as the winning condition, whoever wins the first asset battle has won because he doesn't have to spend anymore.

Game mode now is a VW with a vehicle shop. Whole concept might be applied for strategies but not for FPS. Infantry fight is a core of gameplay and allow to release masses of "fun tickets". In this gamemode on this map infantry fight had no serious application and consequences. Fighting against vehicles meant much but only 1-3 men of 8 able to do it, rest will die for nothing, like when you making mass infantry funerals in Wargame only 3-5 of 30 survive. If you die for nothing as bot dealing zero damage to enemy immersion breaks rapidly.

Thank you for the critique Chuva.

I understand that a map like Black Gold might not be the most fun for infantry, but it is the map with the highest asset variety in the game, and that's why we chose it in order to showcase what having total control over which assets to use means. That infantry on a desert map has a hard time doing anything productive, isn't that a given? You can hardly pin that on the game mode.

Overall your team was too passive throughout most of first half hour. You guys had a TOW FOB staring us down at the Factory, you knew exactly that had to be our FOB location, why didn't you push? The guys on H4 were under pressure the entire time and only managed to hold on because they could respawn. Once the tanks arrived that ceased and it looked very bad for our team.
From the position you were in on G8, you could've and should've attacked the Factory, as any muppet brave enough to try shoot the incoming infantry you could've shot with either sniper, TOW or machinegun, some dudes managed to sneak in and killed us. Why wasn't your entire squad there? Why did you not invest into an IFV to make it even easier, you certainly had the money for it? Had we lost that position we would've lost income and our control over the territory which you could've then fortified.

Wargame: Red Dragon have totally unpopular economy gamemode, in most aspects it matches with Redux. It can be won or by sitting on *** and making vehicle kills , or by using cheap cost-effective ****. After match I feel that we better sit on *** and camp in G8 rather than trying to move anywhere at all. Cost-effective shit spam impossible because PR don't have that many vehicles of various decades that can be classified as tank, apc or aa. Idea of spamming was already tested on WoF events when up to 10 uparmored Humwees with GMG and Avengers was deployed, that event was horrible.

To be honest I hardly saw any of that cheap, cost-effective **** you were talking about. In the entire game I saw one VN-3 purchased and one 25mm ZSL. The rest was either all CAS, Tanks and maybe AA pieces(didn't see them). Same with our team, we bought a Shturm and a BMP-3, rest was CAS, Tank and AA. Regardless of this, we capped the asset amount so that spamming cost effective units like VN-3s and Shturms was not going to be a problem.
And yes, G8 was a great position, why did you guys think that deploying to M8 would be any better? Even if it wasn't for the tank coming up and smacking your troops as they deployed over there that position doesn't give any advantage over G8, especially not if you're content with spamming TOW shots into our fortified position instead of attacking it. The whole M8 endeavour was a tactical blunder on your part, and while you're making it sound as if the game mode was to blame, it was not. I can only repeat myself, you were too hesitant to assault the FOB location that we sat on, not a single ZSL to go along with your infantry push, even though the money was there. Just look at the tracker, you were at over 4,500 points when we brought our tanks in and you shifted towards M8, instead of investing and giving our team the finishing stroke the tickets were not spent....

Knowing where enemy is leads to VW gameplay not making any fun for ones who outside of vehicles.

Again, the map is largely at fault.

Gameplay consisted of vehicle fights and backdooring with FOBs.

I personally saw a VN3 and the 25mm ZSL and that was it for me in the BMP-3. Vehicle fights? Where?
The failed M8 push left your South wide open. What do you think any competent CO would do in reality if you shift your entire forces North? I would put enough combat personnel on the North to hold the ground while a strike force goes for your base. Hadn't it been for my D/C you probably would've never known. What you did know however is that the grounds close to your main base give the most points.
I would wager the next time we play this mode you're aware and it will not happen again.

This was a bit dull for a lot of inf squads so maybe doing it in a more INF centered map would definitely be excellent!

Would love to try this on more forested or with hard cover maps so INF would have a bit more options on what to do once the heavy assets start rolling out.

We heard your prayers We'll give you something more exciting for infantry the next time we do it.

Tiger Platoon would like to thank the builders of this gamemode and the hosts of the event.

We played as reconnaisance on the russian faction and enjoyed it immensely. Recon actually felt really important and a big part of the team. We managed to get a grip on their supply routes and get the support assets of our team to deal with these.

10/10 we would play again.

[TP]Behr from Tiger Platoon

Was a really nice Event, although we lost

But there was some nice communication and teamplay going on. We, DPRC, would join again on a new event.

First of all: THX from the DPRC Crew! Especially the MechInf stuff realy is a great enhancement and should be put in place, instead of that APC-Rule everywhere (it just makes so much more sense, since modern warefare is about combined arms at not-forrested areas).

Other than that: It´s true, our Team-Strategy wasn´t as good. This is not blaming of any kind - we realy appreciate anyone taking on the commanders role! But we nearly had no scouting for intel as Chinos. Also, we only where 2 Peps in the Tank-Squad, which made us both extra cautious/defensive with our war-elephant. Second, there was barely a call for help on ongoing infantry pushes - we would have loved to assist more on pushes, instead we where used as Firefighters and Guards on the teams flanks (which kinda worked, but it didnt made the russians loose tickets, but just avoid us).

It also felt like, our pushes wherent realy organized. The SLs could have called us themselves BEFORE they attacked anything, but than left it all to the commander to call us, when SHTF far away from our positon. Next time, all the SL should join a common strategy briefing with pre-defined attack, hold and defence procedures.

One Example: Attack
- Troops size/arrangement as Combatgroup (1 Inf Sqd, 1 Mech Inf Sqd, 1 Heavy Asset in Support and probably another one close by as QRF)
- Intel (Scouts monitoring the area, also the vicinity)
- Movement (Preemptive "Heavy Artillery" strikes, Smoke screens, 2 MGs as "Talking-Gun" Detachements with 2 Rifleman as a coverteam, Light APC deploying inf-troops)
- Gain ground
- hold it
- repeat it with a second Combatgroup

That be wonderfully! <3

Thanks everyone for the game and thx to you guys, having the whole idea.
We would love to repeat this. Also we would love to have a debrief with Casualty and you guys in our TS soon!

Here my (RU CO) view:

Both of our FOB locations were shit. The H4 FOB was supposed to be in G4 and the J7 zone was bugged. So instead of having two zone 2 FOBs we had two zone 1 FOBs so our gain was already less. Then you bought CAS while we bought 2 tanks and an AA. You moved your southern troops to M8 and we immediately send a tank there immediately to rek all of them. We lost both tanks at that point - you lost CAS - and thats when you could have won the game by just letting your new bought tanks stay defensive. We were forced to do a move while you were ahead so we bought CAS and a BMP3. We destroyed one APC/IFV and one Tank but lost our CAS. At some point you bought a 2 seater CAS jet which was also shot down by AA. At this situation, you were kinda fucked:
- Both your CAS jets were on cooldown
- Both your Tanks were on cooldown
- Our tanks were just coming off cooldown
- At some point we also had a hind
- We had a BMP3

------------------------------

Anyways, my suggestions to improve this for infantry (because quite a lot of squads were just sitting around for too long):
Problems:
- It is not really worth buying APCs for the infantry because it is better to just wait for enough money for a tank
- It is not really worth attacking a well placed FOB (in a ditch or inside a compound) with an APC because of TOW and LAT kits

So, to improve this you could:
- Remove TOW. They are useless against the main armor (Tanks) anyways, but hold back APCs immensely. Instead you would be forced to use APCs for defending as well. (Same could be done with AA, could be interesting to have AAV on FOBs instead of stationary AAs). This is my main suggestion.
- Increase the ticket gap between main armor and APCs either by making the ticket gain slower, or by decreasing the values a bit.

But other than that: Yes, the map is also to blame.

CAS_ual_TY wrote:- Remove TOW. They are useless against the main armor (Tanks) anyways, but hold back APCs immensely. Instead you would be forced to use APCs for defending as well.

The point when you can say for sure that addition interfere with basis. Success of next stage demand success of previous one.

CAS_ual_TY wrote:Here my (RU CO) view:

Both of our FOB locations were shit. The H4 FOB was supposed to be in G4 and the J7 zone was bugged. So instead of having two zone 2 FOBs we had two zone 1 FOBs so our gain was already less. Then you bought CAS while we bought 2 tanks and an AA. You moved your southern troops to M8 and we immediately send a tank there immediately to rek all of them. We lost both tanks at that point - you lost CAS - and thats when you could have won the game by just letting your new bought tanks stay defensive. We were forced to do a move while you were ahead so we bought CAS and a BMP3. We destroyed one APC/IFV and one Tank but lost our CAS. At some point you bought a 2 seater CAS jet which was also shot down by AA. At this situation, you were kinda fucked:
- Both your CAS jets were on cooldown
- Both your Tanks were on cooldown
- Our tanks were just coming off cooldown
- At some point we also had a hind
- We had a BMP3

------------------------------

Anyways, my suggestions to improve this for infantry (because quite a lot of squads were just sitting around for too long):
Problems:
- It is not really worth buying APCs for the infantry because it is better to just wait for enough money for a tank
- It is not really worth attacking a well placed FOB (in a ditch or inside a compound) with an APC because of TOW and LAT kits

So, to improve this you could:
- Remove TOW. They are useless against the main armor (Tanks) anyways, but hold back APCs immensely. Instead you would be forced to use APCs for defending as well. (Same could be done with AA, could be interesting to have AAV on FOBs instead of stationary AAs). This is my main suggestion.
- Increase the ticket gap between main armor and APCs either by making the ticket gain slower, or by decreasing the values a bit.

But other than that: Yes, the map is also to blame.

1st China never lost the Tank

2nd i dont think that the APCs are problematic or TOWs or that infantry can use them i do belive that the starting tickets should be slightly higher or that Heavier assets should be aviable from the begining APC/IFV such as BTR80A and BMP3

Frontliner wrote:I hope that emphasizes how recon is a must-have for this game mode.

100% agree

3rd Russia outplayed us, i looked at the replay from the match and russia had most of the map control the majority of the time aswell as dedicated scouts which we, china, did not have whatso ever. i do belive the game mode is overall very balanced apart from a few tweaks and the Balance from the base game itself. we clearly got outplayed in the Intel department and rightfully lost because of it. that said this is the perspective from the Chinese Tank Gunner, we were quite pasive and didnt get called for help or were ariving to late at the fight, never saw any armor apart from the Shturm and only had 1 big engagement with infantry 30 minutes into the game by taking out a fob

4th biggest issue ive seen people talk about directly after the game was that "we were wasting to many tickets on assets such as jets" which true we should have saved since we only had one active fob at the end, Comanders and squadleaders should definetly talk this out betwen the other squads if it is sensible to buy or safe, a radical solution would be to have more then 1 or even 2 leads needing to agree with the decision forcefully by only alowing to buy a certain asset after the asset type has been ordered once by multiple people

i loved playng in this event, hope it will hapen more often then every once in a blue moon and hopefully have a better intel/comand structure next time

JohnF0X wrote: 3rd Russia outplayed us, i looked at the replay from the match and russia had most of the map control the majority of the time aswell as dedicated scouts which we, china, did not have whatso ever.
i do belive the game mode is overall very balanced apart from a few tweaks and the Balance from the base game itself. we clearly got outplayed in the Intel department and rightfully lost because of it.

That's simply not true, we've checked zones before battle and knew they're somewhat off.
My plan were consisting of 2 FOBs, one in G9 area for +2 income, one in city somewhere for +2 and possible +3 if it would be nice and clear around to build it on north east.


It was expected that russian side will try to sneak south if we'll push them on north part of map enough. Initial placement on mountain in G9 were meant to prevent such movements from start of round, but seeing that we're doing fine in city, and enemy just camping with 2 superfobs in H4 and J7 i've decided that we push from south ourself as i expected they would have no available crew to stop that early enough.
Meanwhile as we gained tech 4, quickly bought a tank and then jet to be ready to whatever russians will have. As WP squad from city started attacking H4 fob pretty good i've decided to send tank to north part of map support them there incase enemy armour will show up, while cas would meant to support south push.

As you may see, even with bought tank and cas, and i weren't even counting for apc's&shit we still had advantage of vehicles, tickets, income, and land grabbing. Not to mention that we were advancing to enemy side of map.

JohnF0X wrote:that said this is the perspective from the Chinese Tank Gunner, we were quite pasive and didnt get called for help or were ariving to late at the fight, never saw any armor apart from the Shturm and only had 1 big engagement with infantry 30 minutes into the game by taking out a fob

And that's pretty much decided a game for H4 fob, my infantry guys said tank support were from books.


Meanwhile on other part of map we've placed ourself pretty decent and were about to start building fob in +3 area.

While i constantly were under fear than RU side will just buy 2 tanks, cas and aa and will push out our tank and inf from H4 area, they appeared on our location on south.


What happened next is that we got very lucky there.
First is that enemy tank got destroyed by cas without loosing one to tunguska next to it.


After that, second enemy tank got down by our last dude with HAT there.


That's was the state after those engagements.
We didn't started building fob on south so didn't lost anything but pack of expendable infantry and couple of trucks, while enemy lost 2 tanks. Meanwhile H4 assault were pretty much done, and we were constructing fob in tunnels with +3 instead. I'd call this a success.


That's from where i started making mistakes. I didn't payed attention to my clanmates who were moaning that cas pilots just being noobs and doing stuff like wasting 2 bombs to same target, dropping them from 500 alt and so on, still immediately bought another one, which costed us reduction from 4k to 2k tickets.
Meanwhile enemy were already sneaking up under our base which i were expecting, but not that fast.


Again, even with that fob under our main we still had more income and tickets than enemy as you see.


Apparently, we again lost cas, and i made same mistake of investing points into jets without proper pilots and without a plan to use it.


Meanwhile russians lost jet aswell, they decided not to buy any more of them, but instead go with ground push, while i sent tank to deal with shit under our base - our infantry on north flank just left without cover.


That's from where came back, fobs got down under armour push without cover, bmp in supply line were lucky to get logi convoy.

JohnF0X wrote: 4th biggest issue ive seen people talk about directly after the game was that "we were wasting to many tickets on assets such as jets" which true we should have saved since we only had one active fob at the end, Comanders and squadleaders should definetly talk this out betwen the other squads if it is sensible to buy or safe, a radical solution would be to have more then 1 or even 2 leads needing to agree with the decision forcefully by only alowing to buy a certain asset after the asset type has been ordered once by multiple people

There's been no time at all to talk about such stuff tbh. The only assets that's should've been being talked about is expensive tanks and cas, i've asked squadleads few times on brief that they should buy anything up to apc themself as they feel the need.

Our loose consists of two mistakes here.
1. After engagements in L8 area i did not sent troops to control map and instead made forced push to north side.
2. Kept investing points in jets again, again, and again even after it's been known that pilots less than capable to use it properly.

Full round from chinese commander side if anyone interested.

Nice that you post these, always interesting to see the commanders thoughts.

Hey this went completely under my nose!

Well done guys! Awesome initiative!! Please make moar