So I read the changelog...

Post by **eggman** » 2007-05-01 06:57

I dont ever want civilians to be armed because then there is always the case of "well I shot that civilian because it *looked* like he had an AK". Basically if they are a civilian they are a non combatant collaborator to the Insurgency and you are punished for killing them. They can't wield anything more than a rock, so there is no reason to ever kill them.

If they are annoying, chase them down and "capture" them (knife).

Completely different dynamic if they are and/or can be armed.

Effectively the Civilian class is there to grief the conventional armies and play a supporting role to the Insurgents.

And again.. er.. NOBODY has done a game / mod that has even remotely come close to modelling a decent metaphor for an Insurgency (I include professional game development studios in that nobody). We're gonna give it a shot and these are the design choices we are going with.

Right now I absolutely can't stand the Insurgents in PR... it's so far off what I'd like it to be as a metaphor / model for an Insurgency that it makes me cringe to see how they currently play.

And we'll probably not listen to a whole lot of whining about stuff .. most of us play the mod too and after 18 months and almost a dozen major and minor release we're pretty good at filtering out the noise and forming our own opinions on what needs to be looked at.

MadTommy · Post by **MadTommy** » 2007-05-01 07:05

Flanker15 wrote:"Medics can't heal themselves"?! Ahhh ok sure and I guess they can't tie their own shoes without help either? Real realistic...

(I'm sorry in advance..)

WHAT A TOTAL IDIOT. Comments like this make my toes curl. I wont bother explaining, if you dont get where i'm coming from, well you should squad up with Flanker15

edit: I LOVE THE MEDIC CHANGES.

Sort the real medics from the 'heal my own arse only' medics.

p.s it's a real shame that c4s/IEDs dont stick to peeps. If you know where i'm coming from. hehe

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-05-01 07:21

'[R-DEV wrote:eggman']I dont ever want civilians to be armed because then there is always the case of "well I shot that civilian because it *looked* like he had an AK".

well, that happend in real life . would be cool to have a weapon to the insurgents that look likie a *civilian* so he can be hidden in the population , and wait to atack

Post by **eggman** » 2007-05-01 07:23

77SiCaRiO77 wrote:well, that happend in real life . would be cool to have a weapon to the insurgents that look likie a *civilian* so he can be hidden in the population , and wait to atack

That would be all the others ones carrying guns.

Post by **77SiCaRiO77** » 2007-05-01 07:27

i was thinking , what about making insurgents looks like civilians , but they will carry a "bag" in the 3p model , so if they have his weapon hidden , they can be reconigsed by the bag , but , at medium-long distance , they can be confused by civilians , until they are to close to react

MadTommy · Post by **MadTommy** » 2007-05-01 07:28

The punish for killing an Civilian???

If its just personal points, many won't give a monkeys!

Or is it more brutal, personally taking points of ME rather than the team will not work for me. I'd prefer to kill that civilian going into that building to heal the insurgents i've been fighting and take the point deduction.

Or will i get an extra 20 seconds starring at the sky when i die?

sorry if this has been covered, i read through and didnt see it.

edit:.. i'm loving the idea of civies. I can see alot of war crimes going punished.

Soulis6 · Post by **Soulis6** » 2007-05-01 07:36

But then your just killing all the civies with bags? whats the difference other then they might be little harder to make out in the distance? (also its just kind of a wierd idea, imagine your teammates screaming over voip "does he have a bag! Is that a bag in his hand?!")
The easiest way to tell who is who will be that the insurgents will be shooting at you and trying to blow you up, civilians wont.

I dont really understand all the posts wanting to have civilians pick up weapons. If its just fear that if you are a civilian then you wont ever get to shoot anything then there is a simple remedy.......dont choose civilian.

All it really does is make USMC/GB team have to be more careful about identifying targets rather then just gunning down everything that moves with a Cobra, which i think is the desired effect.

PF-Greasy Monkey · Post by **PF-Greasy Monkey** » 2007-05-01 07:37

will the civilians be able to drive the bomb cars?
will the civilian cars appear as a "square target" for the jets?
(I hope so this way they will have to think twice before destroying everything that move because it may be occupied by civilians)
will unarmed civilian cars be considered as a target or will it there be a punishment if its attacked?
unless civilians in a vehicule are valid targets?

MadTommy · Post by **MadTommy** » 2007-05-01 08:40

I really like the likely new kit limiting:

http://realitymod.com/forum/t20076-p9-s ... gelog.html

Light AT & Grenadier added, both great additions.

Edited: removed some thinking out loud

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-05-01 08:48

Btw, how much punishment do players get for killing a civilian?
Since we can all expect a few noobs, that see this as another vanilla mod, and they'll probably complain: wtf, gay, I shot him, and I get punished?

If you die as a civilian, does that TK message appear, so you can punish or forgive, or does the player get automatically punished?

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-05-01 08:52

Smitty4212 wrote:Considering he said it out of nowhere, I think he was just trying to get some laughs

I'm a bit disappointed that civis can't pick up kits. Seems as if that'd be the one thing they SHOULD be able to do. I realize they are collaborators and whatnot, but should they feel the need to join the battle I don't see why they couldn't grab a pickup kit, or take one off a dead insurgent. I imagine new insurgents are recruited all the time from the local population.

I also imagine that in public servers during regular play the sight of civilians will be very rare. I think giving them the ability to jump into the fight would be key and encourage more to play them. But it remains to be seen, maybe they will be the most popular class

Agrred, what they said after this post.
And, also, if a civ picked up an AK, his kit is there, so someone else can pick it up, even the enemy...
Imagine this, GB/USMC grunt picks up a civilian kit, then comes back to his mates and says, that hes done with this sh!t, and he wants to be a civilian, ROFL...

Grasli · Post by **Grasli** » 2007-05-01 09:03

[R-DEV]eggman - Where is the claymores? I thought they were given to the Engineer kit, but I dont see them there... Have you removed them?

arthuro12 · Post by **arthuro12** » 2007-05-01 09:23

Blackhawk 5 wrote:stolen and outdated armor I woundnt be surprised if i saw a sherman driving by

u know the cival wars in africa... the freedom fighters had a sherman once there.. in the 1980's!

crazy

looks like o.6 is gonna be awsome-o-tastic

[T]waylay00 · Post by **[T]waylay00** » 2007-05-01 12:27

MadTommy wrote:bollocks... get on Voip, control the squad, kick non squad players etc, just generate your our teamwork. It really fails. It's up to the effort you put in as a squad leader.

If you are not leading from the front, you cant complain, WE make the teamwork what it is. And it can be excellent, but you get rewarded for what YOU put in. If you are a selfish SL you will not get much help from your squad, if you are selfless they will fall over backwards to help the squad!

Obviously I wouldn't have a problem getting my squad to do the right thing, but what about the other 26 players? How do we know that they won't refuse to use teamwork and actually choose the civilian class?

Here's a case in point:

Soulis6 wrote:
I dont really understand all the posts wanting to have civilians pick up weapons. If its just fear that if you are a civilian then you wont ever get to shoot anything then there is a simple remedy.......dont choose civilian.

See that? That's the problem I'm fearing. If too many have that opinion towards it, then not many will choose to be civilian.

daranz · Post by **daranz** » 2007-05-01 13:31

Where the hell do you people get infinite supply of player on your team, so you can just keep kicking. If I kicked everyone who doesn't wanna cooperate with the squad after I received SL because the 5 people in front of me decided they didn't want it, I'd be playing with myself, and there'd be another squad of 5 people who would constantly quit and rejoin, trying to hand over the responsibility to someone else.

jmull · Post by **jmull** » 2007-05-01 15:59

eddie wrote:r t4libna gt tnx?11111111

?????????????

That's not even legible, Try English it's better understood.

jmull · Post by **jmull** » 2007-05-01 16:09

causticbeat wrote:You guys complain alot.

You hit the nail on the head there.

MadTommy · Post by **MadTommy** » 2007-05-01 16:19

waylay00 wrote:Obviously I wouldn't have a problem getting my squad to do the right thing, but what about the other 26 players?

see thats the attitude

drag the other 26 kicking and screaming..

Chuffy · Post by **Chuffy** » 2007-05-01 17:17

Some interesting changes, I like the new limited kits for the conventional armies and I'm undecided about the medics not being able to heal themselves. Like someone else said it could lead to an over-saturation of medics, but on the other hand its probably going to encourage less lone-wolfing with them (since the medic class is very self-sufficient at the moment). Also, I'm not too happy with the limiting of RPG's for INS, since RPG's are common as muck IRL, but I suppose since the Brits are going to be attacking Basra with lightly armoured vehicles having lots of RPGs floating about the place could screw them over. Not to mention an insurgent class with 5 IED's... D:

Also, the civilian class sounds awesome, I cant wait to play it and deliberately antagonize GB troops by throwing rocks at them.

Oh and healing insurgents and repairing stuff...

...but its mainly the throwing rocks thing.

Post by **Outlawz7** » 2007-05-01 17:21

waylay00 wrote: See that? That's the problem I'm fearing. If too many have that opinion towards it, then not many will choose to be civilian.

Bah, Ill be a civilian any day, taking a jog as Brits move in and spot them while hanging the laundry on a balcony, lol

So I read the changelog...

Claymores..?