Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2007-07-30 15:51**

Yeah I don't think this would magically change how the game is played. Most organised squads hardly use the SL spawn and all coordination takes is a squad leader with a mic or at least one that gives loads of markers and the odd text message.

So don't worry!

Posted: **2007-07-30 16:13**

Red Halibut wrote:Hmmm,

As much as I like this idea, it takes PR in a direction that makes me less likely to play it.
"Why?", you may ask, "What's wrong with making it more 'realistic'?"

Well speaking personally, the problem is simple. I'm nearly 40, married with two kids and with limited gaming time. I cannot join an active PR "clan", because I can't commit time to showing up for "squad practice" and I certainly can't make myself available on a Saturday Afternoon for a clan match.

Removing SL spawn without some form of alternative being provided moves PR in a direction of requiring more teamwork. That is prima facie a good idea, but at some point a line gets crossed where playing on public servers (i.e. not as part of a clan team) becomes next to impossible because of the requirements for co-ordination.

If, or when, that happens then with regret I'll have to hang up my size 11s and go and play something else. Not because I want to, but because for me all the fun will have gone and I will just become increasingly frustrated with the lack of teamplay while not being able to do anything about it.

I stopped playing World of Warcraft when I reached level 60 because all the interesting content required being part of a 40-man RAID. These started at 7pm and because I couldn't commit, there was nothing left for me.

As a plea, for those of you punting the "In Reality you don't spawn in on your squad leader" line, While I agree with you, I would respond "In Reality, I only have the time to play after 9pm UK time, three days a week, and I have to hold down a job. I don't 'spawn' *anywhere" (despite my name ).

SO here's my summary: I don't have a "game" reason for objecting for the removal of SL spawns, but at some point in its relentless drive for reality PR is going to have to ask itself whether it wants to remain playable on public servers or whether it will really only be playable if you are in a clan with the time to devote to it. I *personally* believe we are getting close to that point.

I am in the EXACT same situation(only one 11 month old daughter + wife though) Halibut, WoW and all. I agree with you 100%.

As for gazz, it doesn't sound like you destroyed the entire squad bud. You missed the most important part, get the SL next time.

Please don't take away this influence/power over the battle that the SL has. Some of my most fond memories of PR are saving a game with my squad spawning on me to leap frog CP's in coordination with the rest of the team.

Another thing I frequently do is attack positions from 2 different points, one fire team heading in from the RP, one heading in from the SL position. Please don't take away one of our tactical options!

Leave spawning on SL in please.

Posted: **2007-07-30 17:14**

Terranova wrote:Well I simply thought the SL spawn could function in the same manner as the RP system. Basically once the SL has entered a CP's specified range (say 100 or more meters, could depend on the map) then the squad members could not spawn on the SL. Just like how the SL cannot place down a RP within a certain range of the enemies' CP.

It could also work the other way around, where the squad members can't spawn on the SL if he or she is too close to a friendly CP. The range could be a little less limited, but it would be enough to prevent defenders from spawning in on the SL while you and your squad attempt to cap the flag.

good compromise...

Posted: **2007-07-30 17:22**

yeah nice idea... we will take all into consideration...

Posted: **2007-07-30 17:24**

This would make games last forever and 90% of the time you will be traveling through the maps.
Let's be honest, realism is one thing but in the end of the day it's still a 'videogame'. Playability is more important than realism.

Posted: **2007-07-30 17:26**

Red Halibut wrote:Hmmm,

As much as I like this idea, it takes PR in a direction that makes me less likely to play it.
"Why?", you may ask, "What's wrong with making it more 'realistic'?"

Well speaking personally, the problem is simple. I'm nearly 40, married with two kids and with limited gaming time. I cannot join an active PR "clan", because I can't commit time to showing up for "squad practice" and I certainly can't make myself available on a Saturday Afternoon for a clan match.

Removing SL spawn without some form of alternative being provided moves PR in a direction of requiring more teamwork. That is prima facie a good idea, but at some point a line gets crossed where playing on public servers (i.e. not as part of a clan team) becomes next to impossible because of the requirements for co-ordination.

If, or when, that happens then with regret I'll have to hang up my size 11s and go and play something else. Not because I want to, but because for me all the fun will have gone and I will just become increasingly frustrated with the lack of teamplay while not being able to do anything about it.

I stopped playing World of Warcraft when I reached level 60 because all the interesting content required being part of a 40-man RAID. These started at 7pm and because I couldn't commit, there was nothing left for me.

As a plea, for those of you punting the "In Reality you don't spawn in on your squad leader" line, While I agree with you, I would respond "In Reality, I only have the time to play after 9pm UK time, three days a week, and I have to hold down a job. I don't 'spawn' *anywhere" (despite my name ).

SO here's my summary: I don't have a "game" reason for objecting for the removal of SL spawns, but at some point in its relentless drive for reality PR is going to have to ask itself whether it wants to remain playable on public servers or whether it will really only be playable if you are in a clan with the time to devote to it. I *personally* believe we are getting close to that point.

Almost identical situation ( 2 year old kid) including WOW (although my hardcore raiding guild lets me just amble along). I think it was Terranova or somebody earlier suggested a good compromise of stopping spawns while inside a flag zone.

The extremes of removing rally and SL spawn would (imo) not improve game play on public servers. If PR is to be a organised clan only mod then so be it. I think many of the people who surport the removal of spawns are experainced players who regulally play with fixed clans - try playing on a random server, with only a handfull of people on voice (often in different languages) and see what it is like...

Posted: **2007-07-30 17:56**

I play randomly and I've never had much problems assembling a good squad.

Make a squad, and tell them what to do. Call it VOIP COOP or something. VOIP INF, VOIP AIR, VOIP ARMOR, etc.

Players will cooperate very well if you tell them to, if they do not, you kick them. The team oriented coop players will like you for kicking the turds and keeping the coop players, they'll listen, usually without question.

I remember once saying to one player "I need you to sacrifice your life and make a huge distraction, NW of Delta 6 and I get a "Yes sir!" and he rushes off, does what I told him to do, and we sneak into the building and knife everyone inside.

The funny part was he actually didn't die, and when I said "I thought I told you to sacrifice yourself" he responded "Sorry sir, I'll do better next time".

Was freaking hilarious. Anyways, I can't stand the whole spawning out of a squad leader's ***. I prefer if we could spawn on flags that are not under attack and are not on the front line.

So lets say this is a linear progression of flags, There is team X, team Y and N for neutral:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
X X X N Y Y Y

Team X can spawn on 1, 2, 3, and team Y can spawn on 5, 6, 7.

However, if there's no neutral and it looks like this:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
X X X Y Y Y Y
X can spawn at 1 and 2, not at 3, and Y can't spawn at 4 either, only 5, 6 and 7.

But if it looks like this:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
X Y Y Y Y Y Y
X can still spawn at one.

What do you gents think? With maps with more complicated patterns, any friendly flag that connects to a flag under enemy control, you can't spawn at.

Posted: **2007-07-30 18:14**

Some of my most fond memories of PR are saving a game with my squad spawning on me to leap frog CP's in coordination with the rest of the team.

and that to me is some of the lamest tactics i have ever seen in PR, I know because Ive done it and it felt really cheap and stupid. My entire squad materializes on me and we take the next point. We didnt have to retreat, we didnt have to think of any kind of logistics, all we have to think is 'well the squad leader saved his own *** so were all good'. That to me is really stepping away from realistic or teamwork gaming. Its destroying real life tactics and putting video game tactics to the forefront, which I dont think is a good thing.

Guerra: basically the bunker system does exactly that: allows spawning on rear flags that a commander has placed a bunker at, and on top of that the bunker spawns you a shiny new transport vehicle for your squad to use.

Posted: **2007-07-30 18:44**

'[R-DEV wrote:fuzzhead']and that to me is some of the lamest tactics i have ever seen in PR, I know because Ive done it and it felt really cheap and stupid. My entire squad materializes on me and we take the next point. We didnt have to retreat, we didnt have to think of any kind of logistics, all we have to think is 'well the squad leader saved his own *** so were all good'. That to me is really stepping away from realistic or teamwork gaming. Its destroying real life tactics and putting video game tactics to the forefront, which I dont think is a good thing.

Guerra: basically the bunker system does exactly that: allows spawning on rear flags that a commander has placed a bunker at, and on top of that the bunker spawns you a shiny new transport vehicle for your squad to use.

Lame or not, the experience I had while playing this game was great. Coming from behind to win a game is one of the most rewarding things I can think of.

In addition, running back to the frontlines is a huge frustration, and it should be. However, using game mechanics to increase the frequency of frustration is a big turn off.

Posted: **2007-07-30 18:45**

I'd say yeah, take it out, but there should definately be more spawn pts. I hate on some of the really big maps, you have to spawn back at the main base when all the fighting is 4 km away. and some idiot crashed all the vehicles at the end of the runway, so guess what? your walking.
Rally points are pretty useful-they allow you to get kit requests easier when you need them, they are a fallback point, and they allow infantry (like you) to get back to the action and help your squad out faster. otherwise, squads get stretched out all over the map, trying to walk to the fight.

Posted: **2007-07-30 18:56**

If I could revisit my idea one last time, the one requiring 3 members alive at one time to be able to spawn on the sl. The reason i was thinking 3 was because you need 3 to set a rp. If your whole squad gets wiped out except for your hiding sl you can keep attacking from one point as long as you have an sl. If you need 3 alive and everyone gets wiped out, I think it would simulate the reinforcements coming. Thats where the rp comes in not just as a back up respawn point. Sorry if it sounds confusing, and if your getting tired of hearing my resuggested suggestion just tell me to shut up.

Posted: **2007-07-30 18:59**

SL spawning is just too spammy, really. It really sucks that unless you kill that one person, your efforts are useless. So at the very least it needs some significant limitations, but it's probably simpler to just remove it. Somebody in your squad dying should set you back, not just make you say "spawn on the SL". Right now destroying a RP isn't as significant as it should be(should be cutting off their reinforcements), because they can still spawn on the SL(and make a new RP). Real* tactics are also much less useful, considering the enemy you killed is just coming back in 30 seconds with your exact whereabouts. They can also come from anywhere, whereas spawning on a RP actually show reinforcements coming from a semi-predictable direction. As for fear of walking, that's where dedicated transports come in(as long as he isn't a moron), but if you're in a organized squad(the way PR should be played) it shouldn't be that much of a problem.

*Real as in reality as in project reality

Posted: **2007-07-30 20:52**

Spawn on SL is same as spawn on apc, rp or bunker, remove all spawnpoints, who was killed should run from the base to frontlines, like in DoD or better dont spawn again, cause he was killed.

Posted: **2007-07-30 20:53**

AlexT wrote:Real* tactics are also much less useful, considering the enemy you killed is just coming back in 30 seconds with your exact whereabouts.

If they increased the respawn time, would you prefer that? Because, to me, spending 10 minutes dead and looking at the sky is about equally enjoyable to having to sprint for 10 mins to get back into the action. Infact, it's slightly preferable because I can at least lean back and watch some TV whilst waiting to respawn and give my hands a rest. After a lengthy respawn, they certainly wouldn't be coming back with your "exact" whereabouts. But I suspect you'd not plump for that because it "ruins the pace of gameplay." Just as having to walk miles every time you die would.

Posted: **2007-07-30 21:56**

guys remember !!! the SLer isnt the ONLY spawn point , i will say again...

1. RP
2. APC
3. firebase
4. bunker
5. commander truck

if u say we have to walk 10 mins then basicly u've been joining the wrong squads , a RP can be 100m away from a flag , thats 20 seconds , not 10 mins

Posted: **2007-07-30 21:59**

The squad jeep could be a spawn point, so the squad would take care of its vehicle

Posted: **2007-07-30 22:05**

Everyone is acting like if this is implemented, PR gameplay will break down. The same moaning and complaining happened in the "Remove the minimap"

"I don't want to run for 10 minutes"
"Think of the TKs!"
"Boo-hoo"

Neither of these suggestions is any different than the other gameplay changes. People will get used to it, people will adapt, or people will leave.

Same old cycle, same old b*tching

Posted: **2007-07-30 22:16**

if u say we have to walk 10 mins then basicly u've been joining the wrong squads , a RP can be 100m away from a flag , thats 20 seconds , not 10 mins

You need 4 people in a squad minimum to deploy a rally point. If you don't like a squad, and consequently make a new one, that's three people down before you can place one, and that is assuming you want to forgo limited kids indefinitly, and the people who join your squad are disciplined enough to plant a rally. Getting that sorted will take several minutes right off the bat, and in some maps the CPs are so close together that the areas you can place a rally point are distant and limited.

Bunkers, FBs, etc require tickets, a commander, and people to build them. I refer you to another forum user's comment about how a team is winning, a commander joins, spams assets that no-one will build, "costs tickets, and then they keep going down".

Also, RPs require 3 other people to deploy. That means a single casualty would prevent a 4-man squad from deploying a rally until that one user caught up. So yes, a 10 minute wait while he treks from the main base before ANYONE in the squad can do anything, more if he dies en route, etc.

AND, obviously, the fact that insurgents don't get a command truck, bunker, firebase, rally points. I'm not sure what the militia get, and I am not even sure if the Insurgents get APCs on all maps. A few spawn cars doesn't really make up for the loss of squad spawning...

Posted: **2007-07-30 22:21**

Further more, removing the SL spawn point will kill teamplay on public servers. Let's face it, how many squads would wait 5 minutes for the last member to arrive after a 5k walk?

Posted: **2007-07-30 22:24**

Leo wrote: Neither of these suggestions is any different than the other gameplay changes. People will get used to it, people will adapt, or people will leave.

Same old cycle, same old b*tching

You seem to forget that without the players, YOU wont have a game to play.
Yes, its project REALITY, but still not project UNPLAYABLE.
It's a game, not a simulator.

I think the current PR has found a great balance between 'mainstream' acrade'ish games like BF2 and real simulations.

Project Reality Forums

Remove Squad Leader spawn point