squad leader request kits for squad.

[Tartantyco]

Here is a list of potential problems:
- Squad leader doesn't have an officer's kit and thus cannot request kits
squad leaders fault
-- People in armor squads will be screwed when the squad leader is using a crewman kit.
crewman and pilot kit requestable for every one ?
- Squad leader is not in a position to request kits thus forcing the squad leader to constantly retreat back to rally or base.
sounds good.
- Squad leader is dead and a kit needs to be acquired.
well , he'll spawn at the rally soon anyways
-- Time is of the essence you might need a kit quickly.
should all ready have it, promotes issuing kits before hand and using them efficiently
- Squad leader requests kit and the kit is hijacked by another squad member.
kick said member from squad, why would u want this player in ur squad? this would also be a problem when assigning a kit to some one and some one else taking it, player problem not game problem
- Squad leader now has the ability to rapidly request new kits for himself.
leave the guys squad , hes obviously noob, and then he wont be able to get any kits
-- He could request an AA use it then request a HAT and use it then request a LAT and use it in rapid succession.
AA and HAT not from rally points... so dont see problem. if squad is at firebase, well these weapons are available so even in the current system squad member would be able to request them, so no problem.
- Squad leader fails to give out kits hindering the team.
hindering his squad. in which every one leave and makes new squads cause this guy is obviously noob.
dont see any problems...

-This.

[arjan]

thats not easy for me to read. what do you mean with that?

[gazzthompson]

It cripples armor squads on the huge tank maps as you can no longer have a squad of three tanks

read the thread please:

seems about right for pilot and crewman, maybe only infantry squads layout

[gazzthompson]

-This.

Here is a list of potential problems:
- Squad leader doesn't have an officer's kit and thus cannot request kits
squad leaders fault
-- People in armor squads will be screwed when the squad leader is using a crewman kit.
crewman and pilot kit requestable for every one ?
- Squad leader is not in a position to request kits thus forcing the squad leader to constantly retreat back to rally or base.
sounds good.
- Squad leader is dead and a kit needs to be acquired.
well , he'll spawn at the rally soon anyways
-- Time is of the essence you might need a kit quickly.
should all ready have it, promotes issuing kits before hand and using them efficiently
- Squad leader requests kit and the kit is hijacked by another squad member.
kick said member from squad, why would u want this player in ur squad? this would also be a problem when assigning a kit to some one and some one else taking it, player problem not game problem
- Squad leader now has the ability to rapidly request new kits for himself.
leave the guys squad , hes obviously noob, and then he wont be able to get any kits
-- He could request an AA use it then request a HAT and use it then request a LAT and use it in rapid succession.
AA and HAT not from rally points... so dont see problem. if squad is at firebase, well these weapons are available so even in the current system squad member would be able to request them, so no problem.
- Squad leader fails to give out kits hindering the team.
hindering his squad. in which every one leave and makes new squads cause this guy is obviously noob.

this

[Alex6714]

- Squad leader requests kit and the kit is hijacked by another squad member.


kick said member from squad, why would u want this player in ur squad? this would also be a problem when assigning a kit to some one and some one else taking it, player problem not game problem

This just screems irony.

Anyone who has played in the tounament knows that they don´t take anything else than their current assigned kit right? And it works. So then we can agree this is not a game problem. Because with good players lead correctly it works.

We have to reach the conclusion that this whole thread and suggestion is made due to a player problem. So then, as you just say, why mod the game for a player problem?

You can´t defend your own suggestion with the very thing that contridicts why you suggest it....



@Arjan

Aviators (1 max):
6 pilot kits

So I could just make a squad, lock it, invite a friend request the pilot kits and hog them for the rest of the game? Now I personally wouldn´t do that, but when you suggest these things you have to look at it from the point of view of the different player mindsets and how it ends up for the rest of the players on the team.

[Tartantyco]

thats not easy for me to read. what do you mean with that?

sorey, i retard. Fixed now.

[Solid Knight]

Here is a list of potential problems:
- Squad leader doesn't have an officer's kit and thus cannot request kits
"[Squad] leaders fault"
Re: Because squads never change sizes as the game progresses and squad leaders are always able to get back to a fire base in a timely manner.
-- People in armor squads will be screwed when the squad leader is using a crewman kit.
Crewman and pilot kit requestable for [everyone]?
Re: Are you asking me? A potential solution.
- Squad leader is not in a position to request kits thus forcing the squad leader to constantly retreat back to rally or base.
Sounds good.
Re: Sounds like a losing strategy.
- Squad leader is dead and a kit needs to be acquired.
Well , he'll spawn at the rally soon anyways
Re: Read the sub-bullet.
-- Time is of the essence you might need a kit quickly.
Should [already] have it; promotes issuing kits before hand and using them efficiently.
Re: Because you never spawn in the heat of battle and the squad leader is never busy.
- Squad leader requests kit and the kit is hijacked by another squad member.
Kick said member from squad, why would u want this player in ur squad? this would also be a problem when assigning a kit to some one and some one else taking it, player problem not game problem
Re: Sorry, I meant to write "by another squad". In the beginning of the round a lot of kits will be laying around and anybody can go kit hunting since. Either way you just admitted that one of the problems won't be solved by this proposed system.
- Squad leader now has the ability to rapidly request new kits for himself.
Leave the [guy's] squad . [He's] obviously noob, [then he won't] be able to get any kits.
Re: Because nobody ever joins a squad just to avoid the kick script.
-- He could request an AA use it then request a HAT and use it then request a LAT and use it in rapid succession.
AA and HAT [cannot be requested] from rally points... [So, I don't] see [a problem]. If [the squad] is [at a firebase], these weapons are available so even in the current system squad member would be able to request them, so no problem.
Re: Rapid succession is the key phrase. The current system has time delays on kit requests which would have to be removed for the squad leader to perform his function.
- Squad leader fails to give out kits hindering the team.
Hindering his squad, in which [everyone leaves] and makes new squads [because] this guy is obviously noob.
Re: No, hindering his team. I think you underestimate the amount of squads that are formed just to avoid kick scripts or in the same manner as vBF2 squads. People join but have no intentions of working with each other. Or perhaps there are a lot of locked squads and you have to join this bad squad. This also goes hand in hand with the timely manner argument. He might give you a kit, eventually, sometime, maybe down the road. You essentially acknowledge that this will be a problem.


Again, all you're really trying to do is force players to play your way regardless of whether your way is even effective to begin with. You're forcing squad leaders to perform functions many do not want to perform. You're opening the doors to exploitations and other issues whilst not truly solving the problem that the system is supposed to solve. So now the player's can't get the kits they want with the proposed method which now increases the incentive to steal kits and piss off more casual players. Really, your system doesn't stop kits from being wasted. It only tries to force players into having certain kits. What is stopping the noob squad leader from requesting a bunch of special kits and leading his squad into a death trap at the beginning of the game? Nothing. So that problem remains unchanged. All that is changed is squad leaders have a ton of over head and some degree of control over what kits are in his squad but again. It's a high price to pay for micromanagement.

[arjan]

@Arjan



So I could just make a squad, lock it, invite a friend request the pilot kits and hog them for the rest of the game? Now I personally wouldn´t do that, but when you suggest these things you have to look at it from the point of view of the different player mindsets and how it ends up for the rest of the players on the team.

Yer you might be right, but it stops the 15 pilots waiting in mainbase
It was just a idea though but how about just makin pilot kits limited to 6 then?

[Tartantyco]

- Squad leader requests kit and the kit is hijacked by another squad member.
Kick said member from squad, why would u want this player in ur squad? this would also be a problem when assigning a kit to some one and some one else taking it, player problem not game problem
Re: Sorry, I meant to write "by another squad". In the beginning of the round a lot of kits will be laying around and anybody can go kit hunting since. Either way you just admitted that one of the problems won't be solved by this proposed system.

-Kill him. In the face.

(Also, nothing is stopping people from hijacking kits as it is. I've had it/seen it happen a couple of times)

[gazzthompson]

yea happens now anyways kit hijack this want cause any more problems, probably less

[arjan]

you could make kit hijackers from other squads get killed?
It allready happens when you steal a kit from someone.

[Rudd]

Reading this thread, the only real danger of this system is newbie unfriendliness and over complicating it, gotta be careful to keep it as simple stupid as possible, perhaps leaving a few kits in teh conventional member commrose.

[Solid Knight]

-Kill him. In the face.

(Also, nothing is stopping people from hijacking kits as it is. I've had it/seen it happen a couple of times)

True but is is much harder when the person requesting it is right there to take it. With the squad leader requesting the kits you'll have to find the kit first. It leaves the kit on the ground longer and thus makes it easier for people to steal them.

[VipersGhost]

Maybe just do it for the "Super Special Kits" like HAT and Sniper?

[Salah ad Din]

takes away from the realizm... you dont see a squad leader with 7 or 8 kits on their back... it's fine to me... truck, vehicles, outposts, etc are ideal!!!!

Dude, I don't think he meant that the SL can request wherever he is. He's still gonna needs a regular request location.

[Threedroogs]

good idea.

giving me the ability to accept a kit request from an squadmate as an SL, like a commander accepting a build order, would be awesome. why should all 32 people on a team (assuming they're all in squads) have access to such important equipment as H-AT and L-AT? if kits had to be approved by SLs, we'd see a lot less wasting of the important anti-tank weapons. this would also take care of the problem with the SL having to physically request every kit every time. let players request like normal, but SL has to approve (page-up).

i like the idea. a good solution is definitely possible.

[AnRK]

Reading this thread, the only real danger of this system is newbie unfriendliness and over complicating it, gotta be careful to keep it as simple stupid as possible, perhaps leaving a few kits in teh conventional member commrose.

To be honest I think it'll work to the opposite effect, new guys will be "stuck" with base kits. But any welcoming squad leader will be able to reassure said new guy that it's better this way, and tell him to stick with it for a bit until he gets used to the game and "earns" his requestable. If said new guy is difficult then he won't get his kit, and if he (or she!) throws a tantrum, then you can bring out the unhelpful RTFM type comments.

I don't get the "I should have the freedom to X, Y and Z" arguments, your operating within a military hierarchy, the SL should have that kinda power over his squad. As has been said before, if you don't like it you can do the closest thing to fragging an officer in this game and make a new squad, or perhaps TK them and then make a new one if your a REAL realism nutter

I think it's a good idea, just alot of people are making undue complications out of it. As far as I gather the idea is just to keep everything the same, just the SL gets the kits and squaddies don't unless they wanna fly or drive armour. It'd be nice if you had some system where it meant if you have an Officer in squad then you had to have your pilot/crew kit requested, but if there isn't you don't, but that wouldn't really work out for the combined SF+CAS squads. Maybe you could apply it to the crewman but not the pilots.

[Solid Knight]

Military chain of command isn't a valid argument. Spec Ops and Sniper are two classes where you have to volunteer to train for. Secondly, you're playing a game, not enlisting in the military. People aren't going to go for it. There is no real chain of command. I can be a squad leader one second and a squad member the next and then the commander. If you want to play this chain of command game then I'd just go commander and order you to give me the HAT. How's that?

[Rudd]

Knight mate cool it eh? its just a discussion...