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Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-28 23:05
by JDMT
Howitzer wrote:Thanks DEVs !!!

Ill have to edit my Sig :D
I agree, Grenadier should be more available. Most of the time, they have an M203 on their M16/M4, so I think it should be just like the LMG.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-28 23:06
by hiberNative
GreedoNeverShot wrote:Instead of changing the medic, make headshots kill again.
i would like my marksmanship to pay off, too.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-28 23:13
by Rudd
Well...tbh...1 medic in the squad will result in many situations where a squad isn't getting back up <- which is fine since it promoves conservative tactics.

So the headshot thing won't really matter anymore.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-28 23:24
by =(DK)=stoffen_tacticalsup
If you need two medics in the squad youre doing something wrong.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-28 23:27
by Gaven
No more medic/sniper teams? Guess we'll have to start joining squads and leaving with the medic kit.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-28 23:32
by McBumLuv
Well, personally I'd prefer it where headshots always kill, but body shots have a small % chance of killing (up to 33% on armoured soldiers), a higher % chance to wound a soldier (IE, cue falling to the ground waiting for a medic), and a small chance of being able to get hit and stay standing. Of course, the chances would be different on a per caliber basis, but you get the point.

I think (read: hope) the medic system is changed as well, but that'll be for another thread or w/e.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-28 23:54
by TheParadoX
Very nice addition, devs. I love how you post these news and so many guys who obviously have not tested it yet are already suggesting changes. Must be annoying, but I guess you are getting used to it ^^

I just hope that this solution to the medic problem (1 medic per squad) will not lead to many 3 man squads. Lets wait and see !

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-28 23:58
by AgentMongoose
I don't like the Idea of having to have 3 men in a squad to get a medic kit.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 00:36
by M.Warren
These are some interesting changes.

The problem with the insecurity of having one Medic comes from the issue of a particular mindset. I'm under the impression that most players who act as Medics consider themselves to be Rifleman with a First Aid kit, which is the major problem. If a player decides to use a Medic kit he/she needs to be prepared to play the role of a EMT/Doctor equipped a rifle for personal defense only.

What I'm trying to explain is that there are 5 other men in your squad that can engage targets. If a player decides to volunteer to be a Medic, it's your job to avoid combat and concentrate on healing your squad members and reviving them. You should also be frequently checking your map interface if squads nearby need revival or medical assistance as well.

Simply put, if you're a Medic and you're on point (ahead of your squad) and/or amongst the other rifleman you're doing something wrong. You should be at the rear of the squad and beside the officer (as the officer should also be behind everyone else) anyway. Anything other than that you're risking your own life and the life of your fellow soldiers because you're useless when you're dead.

As a Medic you need to take up the mindset as being subtle and an escape artist. That means you need to hide and take cover when a firefight breaks out. Not to run around the place looking for an enemy to shoot. The sooner you take the role of being both passive and defensive and also undertaking the aspects of longevity and survivability in mind, you'll prosper well as a Medic.

Besides, it makes perfect sense that if you're playing a Medic and 3 or more of your squad members are down, it should be a complete nightmare. Truth is, your squad just got whooped. The idea is to emphasize teamwork, skill and to be attentive to detail. Spawning with more Medics to make up for recklessness is pretty lame.

The fact of the matter is that there is an implied contract (which most players are completely unaware of) that as soon as you pick up a Medic kit, you have sacrificed your personal intent on being offensive. You have instead volunteered your services to act as a supporting role for your team. It just so happens that it isn't an easy role and it is slightly boring at times. Playing a Medic properly will test your ability to remain focused on the task at hand and the strength of your self-control. If you don't have these traits then being a Medic isn't for you and you'll be met with frustration and disappointment.

__________________
GreedoNeverShot wrote:How am I supposed to have 2 independent fireteams?
I can understand why some people may want two Medics for fireteam purposes. However, I feel that the only way to truly have an effective fire team established is when Squads can have up to 8 people. And to the best of my knowledge a real squad consists of 8 people as opposed to BF2's standard 6 players.

If you really want to set up a fire team I suggest getting together with another squad on your team. Mumble, Teamspeak and Ventrilo is an interesting way to do this. I can speak from personal experience when I had played as the U.S.M.C. with another squad on Korengal Valley. It was pretty awesome and we were practically unstoppable.

I admire your effort to teamwork and get public players to work effectively in a fireteam. But I feel that the hardcoded issues we have to deal with are a major problem and inhibit organized play as it should be. A fireteam consisting of 3 and 3 soldiers is very small. If we could have 4 and 4 it would make a significant difference.

__________________

I love the Give Up / Call Medic option that's been attached to the spawn interface. I didn't think the option to right click on would work on anything outside of the Comm Rose interface. Good news indeed.

As for the new spawn screen kit selection. My only gripe (thanks to my O.C.D. tendencies) is that I feel it should be listed as:

Officer (Optics) - Limited
Officer (Ironsights) - Limited
Rifleman (Optics)
Rifleman (Ironsights)
Rifleman Specialist
Automatic Rifleman - Limited
Combat Medic - Limited

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 00:51
by ReaperMAC
M.Warren wrote: As for the new spawn screen kit selection. My only gripe (thanks to my O.C.D. tendencies) is that I feel it should be listed as:

Officer (Optics) - Limited
Officer (Ironsights) - Limited
Rifleman (Optics)
Rifleman (Ironsights)
Rifleman Specialist
Automatic Rifleman - Limited
Combat Medic - Limited
This I actually agree with.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 00:52
by Snazz
I often play as a medic and I like the changes, a squad should only need 1 medic.

I also really like how the SAW has been given a scope, I can't get much use out of the current iron sights TBH.

As for the ongoing head-shot-kill debate, the decision already been explained pretty well by the devs. If you really want to down an enemy squad shoot their medic first.

BTW, the mention of a 0.86 sounds interesting, I hope to see an announcement soon if it's not just another closed test build.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 01:17
by PhantomCCI
Awesome to have none optic officer kits, no more being forced to fight CQB with an ACOG sight.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 01:27
by Onil
[R-DEV]Jaymz wrote:Just so everyone is aware, that's an ELCAN on the M249. It's the only MG optic that will be ready for 0.86 but they are planned for almost every faction (we'll change it to a SUSAT for the Brits in time).
Can we please have the Iron Sights Variant of the Automatic Rifleman as well?

I mean you are adding that option to the Officer, might as well do it with the MG since we don't have the option to remove the optics ourselves when the type of terrain demands it.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 01:50
by Snazz
Onil wrote:Can we please have the Iron Sights Variant of the Automatic Rifleman as well?

I mean you are adding that option to the Officer, might as well do it with the MG since we don't have the option to remove the optics ourselves when the type of terrain demands it.
Read:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr-general-discussion/57497-machine-gun-versatility.html#post991000

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 03:12
by 00SoldierofFortune00
I like the changes so far, but I agree, 1 medic is not enough. If you are only going to have 1 medic, then you might as well make headshots kill because I can see 5 people crowding around the 1 medic right now. Games will also be much shorter since medics won't be able to revive and heal as much, meaning more ticket loss.

I always preferred to have 2 medics per squad so 1 medic could work with half of the squad, and the other medic with the other half. That way, fireteams were semi-possible. Now, it will be even more impossible to split up since you won't have a medic that can be with both fireteams at the sametime.

Also, why not have the medic have the option of ironsights and scopes? On wide open and long range maps like Kashan, the medic can't really fight at all, even when there is no one to medic. I mean, everyone always tells someone in the squad to go medic (except themselves), but not everyone wants to medic at every second of the game, they want to fight too. And without a scope on certain maps, this makes them even more of the squad "b*tch" I guess you could say. Basically, the guy who is always there to provide your the squad, but never for his own needs. Players aren't hardcoded remember? And this game is still about fun remember?


And to the people saying 1 medic is fine, remember that this game is still based on the BF2 engine. No matter what you do to it, this engine was never meant for realistic play, hence why it is still so easy to die in this game, even if you are being "conservative." Just saying "be more careful" or "approach carefully" means nothing because half the time you do, but get killed because of lag, insta-proning, or lucky shots.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 03:16
by Pvt. Green
Will these limited kits be receiving the -10 point penalty for dying with them?

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 03:21
by NYgurkha
officer kit with iron sight is gonna be a godsend :)

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 03:26
by ChiefRyza
I love the medic change. I think it will help keep squads together even more and remove the medic spam that has been rampant ever since the headshots got removed. Good job DEV's and thankyou!

I'm assuming the people want lots of medics around still are the people who forgot what it was to be careful about how you go about fighting in PR..... This should bring us back to the good old days where people didn't rely on medics but rather utilized them. If you want medic spam, Vanilla's door is always open. Good riddance to it!

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 04:38
by Snazz
00SoldierofFortune00 wrote:it is still so easy to die in this game, even if you are being "conservative." Just saying "be more careful" or "approach carefully" means nothing because half the time you do, but get killed because of lag, insta-proning, or lucky shots.
If you get killed because of some bug/lag/exploit/fluke then bad luck, playing cautiously will still improve your chances of survival.

It makes sense for PR, a lot of the design decisions have been about encouraging players to play more tactically and carefully.

Having less medics around won't make it less fun for me, when I'm a medic I already focus on healing and reviving my squad more then fighting. If someone goes medic just so they can heal themselves and kill more people then they're not really playing the mod how it was intended.

If you find supportive/specialized roles boring just don't play them, stick to rifleman and killing people. Your squad/team will want people in those roles as everyone benefits and people who do enjoy them will fill the positions.

Instead of splitting up your squad into 2 fire teams, you can work with another infantry squad using mumble. I know that's easier said then done but if you really want it you'll organize it.

Re: [Hud] Limited kits on spawn menu

Posted: 2009-04-29 05:04
by rangedReCon
Good update, DB you are a god among mere men!