Project Reality Forums

Interesed ( Northern Europe)

[R-CON]space wrote:I suspect that some people are more concerned about their personal feelings towards me for petty reasons, so if you ran it maybe they would stfu - ideally it could be an official PR thing, but hopefully without it needing to become over admined/rule filled - I think if it was official it would certainly help attract more people.

Believe me, there's nothing personal at all behind my comments earlier - I'm simply upset with and tired of the endless "Oh noes, so many new vBF2 players!" posts that seem to endlessly breed in these forums.

People (speaking generally here) often seem to forget that everyone started as a new player, that everyone has spent time trying to learn the ropes, that everyone has had to try and grasp the gameplay changes.

Project Reality's longlevity is directly proportional to the number of new players that are drawn in. Without new members the playerbase will stagnate, the game will become tired.

You will always find that there are servers that aren't well-administrated, that attract griefers and lazy players who don't want to cooperate with others... simply don't play on them! There are well-admin'd, teamplay-orientated servers out there, and (to my mind) any admin worth their salt will !resign or !kick a squad leader who won't follow orders, for example. It's a requirement of the game, in effect.

If the need for well-admin'd servers isn't being met, that's another discussion entirely and the community's server providers need to do more to address it. My concerns are simply that the long term impact of Whitelist-type servers is to increase divisions within the community, is a devisive way of dealing with the problem rather than a collaborative way that actually makes the game more enjoyable for everyone.

The problem is the amount of penalties brought in to force teamwork and constant changes for the same objective which just makes I think a few people think, "well this is getting annoying, I just want to play a good game".

I can see your point, and in earlier versions it was fun to do so, but now its just not when if people don´t work in perfect harmony the gameplay isn´t all that good.

Force 'em!

Joking aside; if people get removed every time the SL on a server because they don't follow orders/co-ordinate with their team, they'll either:

a) Follow orders -> Good Result.
b) Not SL -> i. They'll either follow orders as a SM -> Good Result or ii. Not follow orders -> Get kicked from Squads -> Get dropped by the server -> Good Result.
c) Play elsewhere -> Good Result.


Admins can't expect the game to force teamplay, and I'll admit that I think the gameplay has been pushed as far as can be realistically expected in that regard... but ultimately, using an aimhack is considered unacceptable and a valid reason to kick someone from a server, because it breaks gameplay for everyone else, yeah?

Well in PR, not working with your squad/team-mates breaks gameplay for everyone else. It should be as equally reviled by admins, and when people are breaking the game then admins should be stepping in to ensure gameplay runs smoothly.

We don't have MD5 checks for players... we do have admins.


Hell, groups of server license holders could consider something like a shared, limited-admin list. iGi could offer limited use of !warn and !resign to TG members, for example. That way you build in a limited amount of failsafe - even if an Admin isn't around, experienced, teamplay-minded players can step in to rectify a situation in a way that doesn't involve just leaving the server.

My 2 cents Space, just do it. See how it works.

I for one would love to play on a server like this but at the same time I dont think it will work. Only because of all the good players you might be thinking of how many of them are on servers at the same time? Then add in who's the judge and jury that determines who in or out? What happens when two people hate each other, both payed, but wont play together? What happens when the leaders are seen as acting noobish? Or what if this elite server turns into only me and my friends server?

And for all those that think it a bad idea or wouldn't play on it, I'm not sure why your even arguing in here? I've seen public games turned around from a crappy game to the best game I've had because of a few players that joined in and started playing. And these servers will always be around.

If you want to run a elite server sounds find to me as long as it falling into the server rules that are established. I personally think your going end up with a normally empty server. Might as well just have invite only nights (and I don't mean the tournament and community matches)

'[R-DEV wrote:Masaq;1025115']You will always find that there are servers that aren't well-administrated, that attract griefers and lazy players who don't want to cooperate with others... simply don't play on them! There are well-admin'd, teamplay-orientated servers out there, and (to my mind) any admin worth their salt will !resign or !kick a squad leader who won't follow orders, for example. It's a requirement of the game, in effect.

Wrong. The grievers are far more attracted to the popular servers because it gets more of a kick. If this is passworded, no grievers, which is a plus, and I can guarantee that a large proportion of grievers would have been pissed off people because they didn't like a server admins decision/didn't get the game so got shouted at then kicked.

This solves both problems, you won't get shouted at by angry vets of PR(who shouldn't shout, I'm not agreeing with that), but it solves it for the vets, and once the newer players are introduced, they can probably come to this.

Scot wrote:Wrong. The grievers are far more attracted to the popular servers because it gets more of a kick. If this is passworded, no grievers, which is a plus, and I can guarantee that a large proportion of grievers would have been pissed off people because they didn't like a server admins decision/didn't get the game so got shouted at then kicked.

This solves both problems, you won't get shouted at by angry vets of PR(who shouldn't shout, I'm not agreeing with that), but it solves it for the vets, and once the newer players are introduced, they can probably come to this.

Part of my point tho mate is that without vets on servers giving people a really good experience, you'll never get them becoming the kind of vets the vets want to play with... they'll either wander off because they've become frustrated at the non-teamplay, or they'll never learn the good teamplay that the vets expect.

It's like the difference between shouting RTFM at someone and actually giving 'em a useful answer - if we can't be bothered to give someone a decent answer, why should they bother to RTFM?

Oh and sadly, you can't stop a server getting crashed even if it is passworded. Passwords are leaked, for a start - and even with the changes coming in the 1.5 patch, you can bet that before too long some bright spark will be selling a script that can once again crash a server out without having to connect

Your free to try, but I think such a thing would be too difficult to manage, especially who is the one who gets to decide who is "good" and who is "not"?

What I like to do is get a good large group of players, and storm other servers, forcing a good gameplay there haha

I wish ya the best of luck and its my opinion that you can do whatever you want with your server, but I personally feel this thread and idea justifies most of what I have stated before.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f257-v ... post943984

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... post796961


Those should easily sum up my feeling on this topic.

'[R-DEV wrote:CodeRedFox;1025142']My 2 cents Space, just do it. See how it works.

I for one would love to play on a server like this but at the same time I dont think it will work. Only because of all the good players you might be thinking of how many of them are on servers at the same time? Then add in who's the judge and jury that determines who in or out? (...)

[cut]

If you want to run a elite server sounds find to me as long as it falling into the server rules that are established. I personally think your going end up with a normally empty server. Might as well just have invite only nights (and I don't mean the tournament and community matches)

This. Couldnt say better.

It wont be passworded it will be whitelisted, and the central reason that DICE have done the 1.5 patch is to stop server crashes and GUID spoofing so they can apply punkbusted bans with confidence that they're banning the correct people - yes it could get hacked again but lets be positive and hope that's not for a while.

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]CodeRedFox;1025142']
I for one would love to play on a server like this but at the same time I dont think it will work. Only because of all the good players you might be thinking of how many of them are on servers at the same time? Then add in who's the judge and jury that determines who in or out? What happens when two people hate each other, both payed, but wont play together? What happens when the leaders are seen as acting noobish? Or what if this elite server turns into only me and my friends server?
[/quote]

I need 128 people to get the idea off the ground - Im hoping that many times that number would become members, as thats what would be needed to keep the server populated. I hope to achieve these numbers by publising the server details on clan forums etc, and hope to have at least a whitelist of around 500 players to start - several respected clans would have all their members automatically added to start the server, plus anyone who expresses interest in this thread.

Im kind of hoping that the server will be admined by peer pressure. Also there will be no "leaders" I've personally experienced some terrible admining in PR where people for example are kicked for assets - things like that stop me playing PR for a few days because they make me so frustrated with the game, and eventually those servers pick up a reputation. The server will have its own website where problems/policies can be freely discussed and decided by the members .

[quote="Cheesygoodness""]I wish ya the best of luck and its my opinion that you can do whatever you want with your server, but I personally feel this thread and idea justifies most of what I have stated before.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f257-v ... post943984

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f10-pr ... post796961


Those should easily sum up my feeling on this topic.[/quote]

Cheesy - I 100% agree with you about unfriendliness in PR. I mentioned earlier in the thread that aggressive "pros" would be less welcome than a noob with the right attitude. People wouldnt be banned for missing shots, or accidentally going the wrong way - what I want to remove from the game, is a group of people at main for 10 mins, throwing smoke at each other for "a bit of fun" , having 15 pilots on a team on muttrah, medics from other squads not healing people who aren't in their squad etc etc - basically all 32 people working together to the best of their ability, and hopefully using mumble. ( Im not a massive fan of mumble - but I can see its potential if its use is more widespread on a server)

PS: The server isnt going to happen for a while, but Im hoping I can set up a website and forum in the next few days.

I'm very interested in this, though money will come with time...

-North America

[R-CON]space wrote:It wont be passworded it will be whitelisted

you can have one or the other but not both. if its just whitelisted, it wont work because nobody will bother to kick players over and over. im not sure if your a server admin, or if you have a server, but it doesnt work that way.

It works by having all 64 slots reserved slots. ( or so Ive been told )

Could also possibly be done via a script similar to PbBans

sounds like an awsome idea

I'm definately interested | Europe

WHPRaveman wrote:I would pay $8 bucks to play with more team oriented people.

As Cartman once said, anything thats fun costs at least 8 bucks

Thanks for your support. Im working on the website right now

I may be flying the T&T flag here but I feel I'm
completely neutral on this subject, I'm intrigued, not quite /interested lol, I have enough trouble trying to pay towards the T&T server and that's home to my beliefs and so on... I would like to be on this whitelist if it occurs, just because I happily mix with randoms but youd have a hard time getting cash outta me . Cant shake the "segregation" and "aPRtheid" vibe that comes across, again why I'm intrigued to see it pan out.

It'd take a ton of bricks to shut me up and I wish to express that AS part of T&T we dont all share the same view exactly.

Personal non biased standpoint is I don't *think* a whitelist will work the way you intend, No feelings against it because if it does work the wayhey it'd be pretty cool and I'd wanna check it out for a game, sorta like the local pub for everyone...)
I'm speaking here as a witness from a server go from insurgency 24/7 32max players slots to three 62p servers, sponsoring Community events and so on.

I speak as Paul the witness of server growth, not Sadist_Cain Rep of T&T. That tag comes off writing this even though I have a none biased/hopeful yet slightly negative view on this server.

Naturally as [T&T]Sadist_Cain I'm your "competition" if you wanna think of it that way, as such, I have no whitelist so that means I get more of the newer players (by this I mean, Maybe have been playing for months just without a concept of how to work as a team)and I'm free to regularly play on. I teach them, this means they'd rather stay with me on my server than venture elsewhere. Same can be said for TG and iGi and others.

Just plain facts there, however there's a LOT of stray sheep out there, I'm interested how many you can pick up with this concept and if it'll work, bearing in mind there's some big folks out there fishing the same lake as you

[T&T] Tags off now...

[R-CON]space wrote:I hear what you're saying and Id hate the white list idea become widespread, but I think there's a enough like minded players out there to keep 2 servers going (US/EU), and make new players with the right attitude, want to become members.

Server costs are a ***** (good idea to set up in texas) and getting moneys out of people is even more so one. the main problem Ill see happening is you NEED a good 128 MINIMUM people whitelisted, correct? You'll easily get about say 50? optimistic being 80.

However of those 80 most will have trouble with paying for the server in the first place (id say about 40%-50%, many more tend to bail out after a few months (call it another 10%-20%).
It needs to get big and quickly cos if it takes too long to grow you'll have an Elitist "core" that was "there since the beginning" and as you know can be worse than any smacktard

And dont you be using the Slogan "Like Minded Gamers" thats ours! lol

Theres players who would be suitable to join after one or two days playing PR - theres others who have been playing PR for years, that I wouldn't particularly want to join.

Some smacktards can be the longest serving members of the community and you understand that.
Bear in mind you'll have to wall yourself off from some of these particular guys you find "undesirable" and also bear in mind one persons view of an undesirable is entirely different to anothers, this is where conflicts occur.
These things in turn create one of the biggest joys of server Adminning... Negative feedback, where folk will tear you to shreds and develop a (often surprisingly large) following of others with does the image no good and image + exposure is key to the species I Spoke about earlier (The Nub or Novus-Ludio-ludius) the thing that keeps ANY server alive.
The smacktard (Molestus Bardus) comes in all Shapes and sizes and is often a master of disguise, He squeezes in through the smallest holes and can leave the biggest mess. (we're talking about not neccessarily the "driving bomb cars into main" level of smacktardery here).
The simplest and most basic thing as any "Bad night" can bring for anyone can turn a good game into an almighty frustrating one with lots of folks getting quite, quite pissed off

Its the right type of people I'm hoping to attract, rather than a certain skill level, so the use of the words "elite" "pro" and "hardcore" aren't really appropriate.

Totally, bad choice of words there on your part lol

However the Ethos you describe is pretty much exactly what servers Like iGi, T&T, TG all promote, it's an unorigional concept from that point of view, what makes me Intrigued is the Whitelist.
The question The Floating "reg" is going to ask himself is, Why pay for a server when these guys give it me for free? is the whitelist really going to be enough to tease the money from his pocket?

BUT looping back to where I started before hand.
It's hard enough for these servers (except maybe TG but due to them being a US based MULTI gaming server playing across many platforms)... Trying to get a LARGE quantity of players to play on the server regularly, pay for server costs regularly in the first place is hard enough, Seeding the server (as all servers will have a "dead time") is another problem. no one wants to put effort into an empty server unless their heart and soul is with the people there.

I understand exactly where you're coming from and that it should be easy looking at the PR community and so forth but I just think your maths are a touch "optimistic" which is another reason Why I'm very intrigued.
I say this from seeing thousands of new faces on PR I know what it's like trying to gather them together for a common aim, not cos of smacktardery but Real Life they can be difficult... most of the best PR players like their freedom to roam and hence dont wanna tie themselves to some. It's Much like This


As I said non biased, I hope I don't come off as such, inform me immediately and things shall be wiped. Like I said before Good Luck with it let's see how it goes

[R-DEV]fuzzhead wrote:Your free to try, but I think such a thing would be too difficult to manage, especially who is the one who gets to decide who is "good" and who is "not"?

What I like to do is get a good large group of players, and storm other servers, forcing a good gameplay there haha

I love doing that, there's a community idea there *MOT*ley crew *Mercenaries Of Teamwork* lol... Well I thought it was funny

[R-CON]space wrote:It works by having all 64 slots reserved slots. ( or so Ive been told )

Could also possibly be done via a script similar to PbBans

cool idea

All good points cain

I'm hoping to have several hundred people whitelisted and hopefully have it donation based. Yes there's alot of freetards out there ( often myself ) but I believe that there's also many that aren't, and also a few that are willing to pay more than $8 for a cause like this ( We're not all kids, and to some people that's not alot of money )
Ive looked into costs and I believe its a workable idea, even if it requires a small upfront investment from me. The most important thing really is how it starts - so basically I wouldn't start the server, until I had lots of names on the severs forum.

Hopefully seeding the server will be helped by having an xfire group, where people can get together and seed.

The website should be up the next few days, and then Ill do a bit of "marketing" and take it from there