AK-47 Accuracy... really?

[Meza82]

amazing photo. life is so different outside the states. these pics make me feel like i live in a bubble.

[ReadMenace]

amazing photo. life is so different outside the states. these pics make me feel like i live in a bubble.

Pointless Necro-post FTW!

-REad

[burghUK]

whys the man in that picture wearing a wedding dress?

[MonkeySoldier]

Pointless Necro-post FTW!

-REad

[Dunehunter]

Let a dead thread rest please.

[OkitaMakoto]

whys the man in that picture wearing a wedding dress?

Johhny Mad Dog is a french film by Jean-Stephane Sauvaire about child soldiers in Africa. I guess watch the movie to find out why hes wearing one



...posting after a MOD

[hiberNative]

Yeah tbh getting an AK47 down to 1 MOA would be hard and require lots of luck.

not really. all you gotta do is paint the front post yellow

[Mark_Buckwe8]

I don't know if anybody has added this but groupings while wearing full fighting order are usually worse as well, You won't get the rifle seated as properly in the shoulder. Now its not that big but it is a factor. My groupings would be a good 20-30 mm greater then when I would fire bare bones at 100m.

[JKJudgeX]

I know it's a dead thread, but, a lot of emphasis was given to the 1 MOA thing. The problem in PR isn't that you can't hit 1 MoA. It's the accuracy disparity in general at the shorter (sub 200 yard) ranges. In shooting at man-sized targets at those ranges, you will not know a difference between the two rifles, especially in any kind of action shooting pose.

I shoot all the time. The weapons are designed for that range to hit mansized targets quickly and with little training. It's not very difficult. if you want less speculation and more data, take a look at some youtube videos of people firing either weapon...

Again, though, 1 MoA isn't even going to be visible in an MMO, that's 1 inch at 100 yards. Unless you're shooting the skinniest, tiniest people, even 6 inch MoA will still mean that lining up your post on someone's head or chest and pulling the trigger will result in a round striking that person out to even 200 meters. MoA is measured as a cone of fire from the muzzle to the point of impact, thus, a 6 MoA weapon will create a 6 inch GROUP, not miss 6 inches to the left, and then 6 inches to the right, that would be a 12 MoA rifle.

Thus, unless your head is less than 6 inches wide, even a 6 MoA rifle scores a likely fatal (at least disabling) headshot if the crosshairs were placed in the middle of your face. At 100 yards. 100 yards is a really long distance, and I think people tend to forget what it really looks like to see a man-sized target that far away. Video games tend to have wonky distances/proportions for people. Look at some pictures of things 100 yards away or go to a football field and have your friend go to the opposite endzone.

Now, you have to also add the shooters MoA to the weapon's MoA, and honestly, there's more variance in shooter MoA than there is in weapon MoA. A good argument can be made that the USMC in PR should have better shooter and weapon MoA, but, even with this included, the game currently makes hitting man-sized targets at reasonable ranges harder than it ought to be for the insurgents. T

he AK and the AR can both hit a can pretty easily at 100 yards.

[ReadMenace]

I know it's a dead thread, but, a lot of emphasis was given to the 1 MOA thing. Then why revive it... AGAIN? The problem in PR isn't that you can't hit 1 MoA. You sure can -- the various faction sniper rifles can achiever 1moa accuracy. But wait, this thread is regarding the AK47 so that doesn't apply, nor does 1 MoA, as this is an absurd measurement to use with the AK47. It's the accuracy disparity in general at the shorter (sub 200 yard) ranges. In shooting at man-sized targets at those ranges, you will not know a difference between the two rifles, especially in any kind of action shooting pose. Swapping wildly between to subjects (in-game weapon mechanics and those of real rifles) is very confusing.

I shoot all the time. Schway. The weapons are designed for that range to hit mansized targets quickly and with little training. As you can still do in PR, even with the AK47. It's not very difficult. if you want less speculation and more data, take a look at some youtube videos of people firing either weapon... Yeah.. Alot of those videos have expired, though one of the original videos does show a marked superiority of the AR15 at 200 yards.

Again, though, 1 MoA isn't even going to be visible in an MMO, that's 1 inch at 100 yards. Unless you're shooting the skinniest, tiniest people, even 6 inch MoA will still mean that lining up your post on someone's head or chest and pulling the trigger will result in a round striking that person out to even 200 meters. MoA is measured as a cone of fire from the muzzle to the point of impact, thus, a 6 MoA weapon will create a 6 inch GROUP, not miss 6 inches to the left, and then 6 inches to the right, that would be a 12 MoA rifle. Yes, but MOA is measured in a controlled environment under desirable shooting conditions. A bench rest, a sandbag, a nice mug of coffee, and a nice leisurely pace of fire. Just because a weapon is capable of 1 MoA does not mean that you can just pull the trigger and it magically guides the bullets into a one inch radius.

Thus, unless your head is less than 6 inches wide, even a 6 MoA rifle scores a likely fatal (at least disabling) headshot if the crosshairs were placed in the middle of your face. At 100 yards. 100 yards is a really long distance, and I think people tend to forget what it really looks like to see a man-sized target that far away. Video games tend to have wonky distances/proportions for people. Yup, PR is definitely afflicted with this problem, I don't think anyone will deny it. Look at some pictures of things 100 yards away or go to a football field and have your friend go to the opposite endzone.

Now, you have to also add the shooters MoA to the weapon's MoA, and honestly, there's more variance in shooter MoA than there is in weapon MoA. A good argument can be made that the USMC in PR should have better shooter and weapon MoA, but, even with this included, the game currently makes hitting man-sized targets at reasonable ranges harder than it ought to be for the insurgents. I believe this is still in effect in PR -- the Insurgent's have deviation penalties due to their 'lack of training' or whatnot.

The AK and the AR can both hit a can pretty easily at 100 yards.There's that crazy switching between reality and video games thing you keep doing.. That being said -- in reality, when I'm enjoying a nice mug of coffee and shooting leisurely at the range, I too can easily hit a 12oz soda can at 100 yards with open sights. In a situation where I might be expected to use one of my rifles in 'self-defense', I would not be surprised if I failed to hit a man sized target at 100 yards. There's the "Oh-****" factor, where you are being shot at, and desiring to return fire, but at the same time you want to get your shot off as quick as possible, causing you to rush your shot etc. This severely affects accuracy.

Furthermore, I never saw a followup regarding your actual experience using the AK47 post .86 release. That would have been a good reason to revive this thread -- not what occurred.

-REad

[JKJudgeX]

Not to be contrary, but...

1) I wouldn't have posted here if I hadn't played 0.87 with the AK-47. It's not very good.

2) We haven't really discussed the penetration difference between the two rounds in question, 7.62x39 will go through cinder block and most other common building materials, trees, etc and create secondary projectiles. 5.56 simply will not, 45 degree angle, or straight on. Watch US Military training video "Concealment does not equal cover" Basic Urban Skills Training - Concealment does NOT equal Cover for a comparison of the two rounds.

Now, why would I mention this? If the extra penetration cannot be easily handled by the engine, then, the weapon system should be compensated in some other way. Many, many vietnam era soldiers despised the 5.56 because of its failure to punch through dense vegetation.

3) Honestly, I wouldn't even complain if it didn't "Feel" wrong. I play lots of FPS games, and the only one that's simultaneously "worth playing" and also simultaneously "worth complaining about" is Project Reality. Did Call of Duty Modern Warfare get any of the guns right? No. But it's not worth talking about, it's basically a cartoon. PR does such a good job in so many other places, that the complete TRASH handling on the AK (yes, even in 0.87) makes playing the insurgency factions a NOVELTY at best "oh neat, it's fun to be the underdog".

AK-47 vs. M-16 isn't bows and arrows vs. laserguns in the real world, it shouldn't be in PR, either.

4) Cite all the sources you want, honestly, it won't help the game. The key is to get out there and fire a few rounds. It's not that hard. AK-47's and M-16's are designed to be 1 man MoA. Modern, nicely taken care of, HOBBYIST AR-15's can be upgraded into 1 MoA rifles. Who knows what the real thing is pushing? I've only ever fired a really nicely put together AR-15, and it can easily hit a paper plate at 100 yards... but, so can an AK-47. I'm not sure EITHER weapon can hit a paper plate at 100 yards in PR.

Oh yeah you might be stressed or whatever, but, also, sometimes adrenaline kicks in and IMPROVES one's capabilities. Shooting at the range, relaxed, I'm very prone to not do my best, because I don't care. If someone told me I was going to die if I didn't do my best? I might be a better shot. Nobody is saying the bullet should be a laser beam, but, I'm surely not the only person who has complained about the difficulty of shooting people as insurgents in this game. I pretty much dread playing insurgents because of the terrible gun handling.

[USMCMIDN]

the second youtube link seems to have been removed.

i've never shot an ak47, but from what i've understood, ammo has a noticeable effect on grouping. i've also understood that there's a slight difference comparing top shelf ammunition in western stores through a gun you might own.

now visualize maltreated ak47s with old surplus or leftover ammunition from the afghan war ;P

true often AK47s used by resistance armies purchase cheap end ammo and this ammo is only really accurate for 50-100yards and that is pushing it to 100.

I have shot friend owned Aks whit match grade ammo and shot 2 inch groups at 100 yards with not much of a problem. Keep in mind it takes longer to sight in down range than the m16 but....

and I have shot AKs imported from Iraq with cheap warn out ammo and believe it or not it is much more difficult to achieve groups liek that after 50 yards I was really struggling to make 6-7 inch groupings so it is realistic to decrease the accuracy. Also the way the AKs sights are made up make it a lot more difficult to aim than other rifles such as the G3, M16 series, FAMAS etc...

The guys arguing that they can make these god like shots with the AK proly have never shot 1 made by the Soviets (a lot of guys who say they have fired 1s have never fired one cheaply made from the SU, China, Iran etc... and have fired American, UK, French made AKs) with low budgeted ammo under stress tired etc.... but the AK 47 is a great rifle in a trained soldiers eyes no doubt about that maybe the devs can reduce the accuracy by 1 point (after all this weapon was made out to be a cqc weapon) and decrease the max range so you cant snipe with it anymore.

keep in mind the manufacture has a lot to do with how the weapon fires too liek i said b4 it doesn't matter when the boxes of AKs were cracked open, often those new AKs the Taliban and Iraqis were using were made cheaply and fast in quantity... The AKs most civi gun owners in the states and western countries fire are a whole lot better madde and use decent ammo.... Think ppl the stories you hear of soldiers and marines that say AKs are inaccurate are not lieing (I have nothing against the AK, it is a nice durable and dependable weapon for CQC)

[Vege]

I usually change to ins AK kit if i play in BLUEFOR side in insurgency if i'm not using a special kit.
in CQB it beats all the kits.

[Endymion]

The Ak 47 is fine, it's beter than the 74, and that's a shame though, it's more accurate right? Because i don't feel a difference.

[rampo]

The Ak 47 is fine, it's beter than the 74, and that's a shame though, it's more accurate right? Because i don't feel a difference.

My experience would say the 74 for is a lot more accurate, and im not sure but isn't it so IRL too? Whit the smaller bullet and all...

[Herbiie]

I like it's accuracy, means to hit something at range I have to put it on Auto, offer a prayer to Allah and blaze away like a real Insurgent

[Donatello]

great gun.
usually using semi-auto mode. works fine.
burst for <50 m.

[hiberNative]

the ak is fine, it just needs a bit of focal zoom when scoped in.

[Meki]

I can kill with it, does me fine

[Bellator]

The AK is quite useful in cqc. But it's also quite effective in medium range combat (like, I think, two hundred meters -- I can't tell distances in PR). The trick for longer ranged engagements is to lay down, wait and aim carefully with the rather good ironsights, which are superior compared to Ak74 (when, I think, in reality its opposite).