Project Reality Forums

quaazi wrote:The old story about Vietnam where US troops were said to abandon their M-16s for AK-47s comes to mind, whether this is an urban legend or not.

Which makes this compromise a great one; you can scavenge enemy weaponry if you really need it (and even grab their patches/ammo), but you can't just pick up the experience needed to operate an SRAW.

Silly_Savage wrote:My favorite change!

For those of you bitchin' about it, you can direct your discontent towards me as I was the one who suggested it.

I hate you so much

Nah I dont hate you but I do think its lame and wont work for better realism.
HAT snipers will be rampent it takes the whole If I take this l33t kit it will fall into enemy hands fear.IMO its just taken another layer of fear from the game and dumbing things down even more for the more powerfull factions.

I think a smarter way of doing it would be anyone could pick up a kit and fire what ever was on the body but not get fresh ammo for the weapon IE pick up a used HAT but cant reload it anyway as a russian supply crate wouldnt have US HAT rounds in it.
This would be "realistic" not that **** you suggested.

We need ways to permanently dispose of kits on the ground then.

I seriously find it funny how people think working a gun is really that hard and go huzzah for realism but lowel they still get regular kits.

Dunstwolke wrote:We need ways to permanently dispose of kits on the ground then.

Are you suggesting it be in the air? The gear will be on the ground. ARMA II is a great example for gear as you can selectively change out components. I'm sure they won't be removing that feature in ARMA II for quite a while.

Trooper909 wrote:I hate you so much

Nah I dont hate you but I do think its lame and wont work for better realism.
HAT snipers will be rampent it takes the whole If I take this l33t kit it will fall into enemy hands fear.IMO its just taken another layer of fear from the game and dumbing things down even more for the more powerfull factions.

I think a smarter way of doing it would be anyone could pick up a kit and fire what ever was on the body but not get fresh ammo for the weapon IE pick up a used HAT but cant reload it anyway as a russian supply crate wouldnt have US HAT rounds in it.
This would be "realistic" not that **** you suggested.

What fear? Saw players take and lose them on a daily basis. Several who did it intentionally.

dragunover wrote:I seriously find it funny how people think working a gun is really that hard and go huzzah for realism but lowel they still get regular kits.

No-one is saying that knowing the basic operation is that hard.

What we are saying is that operating a complicated weapon system like an SRAW or Stinger is. Not to mention the fact that an enemy picking up said weapon would have no access to ammo for it, rendering it useless.

What our MAs have told us is that knowing how to operate an enemy weapon to a reasonable standard takes several days of weapons familiarisation on a range, let alone in the middle of a firefight.

quaazi wrote:The old story about Vietnam where US troops were said to abandon their M-16s for AK-47s comes to mind, whether this is an urban legend or not.

Urban legend, taking the enemy weapons would only lead to you getting fired upon by friendly troops because the weapon your using makes you sound like an enemy...

Now we can see some good usage of kits like engineer and HAT on insurgency. For the roles they were intended for like clearing away those damn mines and IEDs or blowing away hamas hiding behind the walls to the east on gaza.

Trooper909 wrote:I hate you so much

I think a smarter way of doing it would be anyone could pick up a kit and fire what ever was on the body but not get fresh ammo for the weapon IE pick up a used HAT but cant reload it anyway as a russian supply crate wouldnt have US HAT rounds in it.
This would be "realistic" not that **** you suggested.

Don't you think we would have gone down that route if it were available? C'mon, don't be so naive; we're not that dumb.

I don't even know why people are concerned about HAT sniping it's barely effective as it is. I mean that person isn't anywhere near as powerful as a tank shell or a few shots from an IFV and they have to reload everytime and then re-set up the HAT. With the low HAT splash damage we have currently using it against inf isn't especially viable particularly against insurgents where they don't lose tickets and can respawn in about 30 seconds.

Combat engineer was an issue though.

Good post joe. I don't think people are taking into account how ineffective and inconvenient it is to H-AT-snipe infantry.

At most there will be two, yes two, H-AT kits available. You all are getting worked up for nothing.

Wait until release, and if everything is as bad as you all are making it out to be beforehand, then I'm sure a change will be issued. Until then, please, shut it.

Hands down the best change after the AAV7s although why cant you use hostile medic kits and marksmen. An m14 isn't that much more complicated than an ar15/m16

Lets see what happens and hope for the best!

maniac1031 wrote:Hands down the best change after the AAV7s although why cant you use hostile medic kits and marksmen. An m14 isn't that much more complicated than an ar15/m16

It isn't the complication of the weapon, its the fact that the user is now a trained operator and can use that weapon just as effectively as someone who has years of training on it. An Insurgent shouldn't be able to get the same groupings with an M14 as the guy he got it off.

As for the medic that does raise an interesting point, is it possible to code in if YOU spawned with a medic kit, you can pick up enemy medic kits? I know that first aid/EPIPEN operation takes special qualifications but a medic theoretically should be able to pick up an enemy first aid supplies.

joethepro36 wrote:I don't even know why people are concerned about HAT sniping it's barely effective as it is. I mean that person isn't anywhere near as powerful as a tank shell or a few shots from an IFV and they have to reload everytime and then re-set up the HAT. With the low HAT splash damage we have currently using it against inf isn't especially viable particularly against insurgents where they don't lose tickets and can respawn in about 30 seconds.
Combat engineer was an issue though.

Good post joe. I don't think people are taking into account how ineffective and inconvenient it is to H-AT-snipe infantry.

Uh, yes it is particularly effective. Snipers and enemies that are of an interest to take out at a long range are definitely worth the one shot from the HAT, often there is a second tube available with a rifleman in the squad. And with the decrease in deviation when turning around, its going to be even easier.

With the plentiful ammo on the battlefield, and lack of better alternatives at the time, HAT sniping is an effective and valid tactic to use.

I'm going to join the list of those crying over this, unfortunately, Savage.. I honestly think this is going to change the gameplay for the worst, particularly when most infantry weaponry currently in PR has instructions on it like "aim toward enemy".

I mean, sure, you might not get how to do maintenance on it or a variety of other things, but you probably could pick it up and use it with not much problem.. to varied effectiveness depending on the person using the weapon I guess.

How on Earth would it change gameplay? Its as simple as keeping your own kits, its supposed to be Assymetrical warfare anyways. Whats the point of them being Insurgents when the entire Insurgent team is using the same kits as the coalition forces?

I'm starting to agree that we should all wait and see how things play out. The Dev's know the origonal code which allowed you to pick up hostile kits and they can easily revert it if things dont work out

Patience

Startrekern wrote: to varied effectiveness depending on the person using the weapon I guess.

Which isn't codeable in PR, which is the EXACT reason why the SAW kit and Marksmans aren't included.

Honestly I love this change to bits, no more getting shot by an walking SAW in the hands of a random Insurgent.

dtacs wrote: Uh, yes it is particularly effective. Snipers and enemies that are of an interest to take out at a long range are definitely worth the one shot from the HAT, often there is a second tube available with a rifleman in the squad. And with the decrease in deviation when turning around, its going to be even easier.

Well then, what's the problem? If you have a valid target, then by all means, take the shot. When I say ineffective and inconvenient, I'm referring to the notion of trying to H-AT-snipe anything that moves. Not only is this a waste of ammunition, but you may not have a missile ready when a real threat arrives and you're unable to engage because you're out of ammo.

Startrekern wrote:I honestly think this is going to change the gameplay for the worst

How would you stop insurgency turning into blufor vs. blufor? I don't really like the mechanic of it, the poisoned weapons, but right now this seems to be the best way to do it to avoid mirror balance. I wish they could make it so you can't reload enemy weapons but as far as i know that's not possible.

It will change gameplay for the best if you adapt and play insurgency as it was intended, with teamwork and unconventional tactics. Sure some toys are gone now, but a lot more got added to make this faction fun to play again.

As for the reality part, i doubt more than 50% of the enemy would be running around with your guns. Until there is a way to implement a chance based system where you could keep the kit you found say once a round, this will do perfectly.