[Brainstorm] Harsher Collaborator RoE Punishments in Insurgency (Per Player)

[Psyrus]

Important: Please read first post before posting - it's not that long.

Rhino;1709333']One thing however is punishment for players that kill civis will need to be much stronger and possibly a way to stop a player from killing more civis, if someone is just doing it for fun, ie, the player himself is killed after killing X amount of civis and has super huge re-spawn time.

From this thread (Link)

I was originally looking at only team based behavioral-management with the above suggestion, however Rhino brings up a good point about carrots & sticks for individual blufor players.

This thread will serve as a brainstorming pot for the community and me to figure out some ways to create a harsh but not-quite-ragequitty punishment system for individual players who kill collaborators outside of the RoE, with specific regard for those who do it intentionally or do not care about the current punishments.

Note, this first post is merely an explanatory post and a compilation of all suggestions, ranked through a googlesque +1 system (explained below).

Suggestions/Ideas posted in this thread will hopefully follow the form below:

Succinct Suggestion Name in Bold
(eg. Perma ban from server)

Explanation of idea
(eg. If a blufor player even looks strangely in the direction of a collaborator, he is instantly permabanned from the server he's on. Maybe all PR servers. Forever)

If you believe a suggestion has particular merit and would like to see it implemented, or at least formalized in the upcoming suggestion thread that I'll create when this thread runs its course, simply quote the bold suggestion name and leave a +1 or a short comment (or any ideas to modify it). If you do like an idea but wish to modify it significantly, simply create your own suggestion with it's own name.

Please remember, as long as they're cogent and formatted decently... all ideas are welcome

============================================
Ideas
============================================

>1 [+1's]

• Info about the incident
• Screen Blackout
• Arresting - Spawntime Incentives

1 [+1]

• Player Death
• Better surrender/arrest mechanics
• Punish the rest of the squad for civvy kills
• Return to Main
• Kitlock and player death

0 [+1's]

[Psyrus]

Screen Blackout

Utilizes the same system that is employed to black out a player's screen when he/she picks up an enemy kit that's disallowed.

When a player kills a collaborator he gets an initial warning, the same as the current one. Upon killing a second collaborator the player's screen will dim for a full minute. A third collaborator kill will result in a three minute blackout.

[Psyrus]

Player Death

After X number of collaborator kills outside of the RoE, the player is instantly killed with a maximum spawn time (5 minutes I believe). This will apply to all players, those in and out of vehicles alike.

[PricelineNegotiator]

I don't see any HUGE problem with how the system is now. BUT there may be better ways than the current system, so I am interested to hear some of them. I will not quote any of the ideas stated above as I think they are too harsh.

[Psyrus]

Arresting - Spawntime Incentives

On the flipside of killing outside of the RoE - A player who arrests an insurgent will gain +100 teamwork points and have their spawn time reduced by 120 seconds (to the minimum: whatever the collaborator gets when martyred).

[maarit]

Info about the incident

Some big text on top of everyones screen:
"xXWolfsniper94Xx killed unarmed civilian"

[hobbnob]

I don't see any HUGE problem with how the system is now. BUT there may be better ways than the current system, so I am interested to hear some of them. I will not quote any of the ideas stated above as I think they are too harsh.

You've never played civi I'm guessing?

+1 to screen blackout

[PricelineNegotiator]

Info about the incident

Some big text on top of everyones screen:
"xXWolfsniper94Xx killed unarmed civilian"

This is a good idea. It should be announced to the BLUFOR team only in my opinion so there aren't 25 comments from REDFOR saying "OMFG, NOOB", "CIVI KILLER ALERT", or anything else of that matter. Keep it teamside and it could work well.

To hobbnob, yes I have played insurgent, but I've never really minded dying as an civi.

[spiked_rye]

Kitlock and player death

1 civi kill = no Specialist kits next life
2 civi kill = no Infantry kits next life
3 civi kills = Insta death (respawn at main only) + no kits except rifleman irons for 2 lives

Also +1 for Info about the incident and arresting incentives please

[Nixy23]

I know that it isn't the point of this thread to bash other peoples ideas but I must bring this forth:

Keep in mind that 'civi squads' can grief a lot when severe punishments are handed out.. as in;
- Mortar death squads: Civilian squads running into enemy mortar fire on purpose.
- Civilians bunched up near cache buildings and running into enemy armour fire when applicable.

This already happens from time to time to completely disallow the BLUFOR to gain any intelligence points what so ever. If this will also result in severe punishment for the unlucky mortar crewman that had some suicide people run into his shells, that could really ruin any incentive whatsoever to use the Mortar asset on maps where civilians are present.

Also, accidents happen..

I do agree that when people are killing civilians on purpose should be heavily punished, but there must be some sort of filter to make sure that playing BLUFOR isn't going to turn into a dread due to grieving civies.

As for extremely long spawn times or limitations: what is keeping a griever from leaving the server afterwards?

[Pvt.LHeureux]

I know that it isn't the point of this thread to bash other peoples ideas but I must bring this forth:

Keep in mind that 'civi squads' can grief a lot when severe punishments are handed out.. as in;
- Mortar death squads: Civilian squads running into enemy mortar fire on purpose.
- Civilians bunched up near cache buildings and running into enemy armour fire when applicable.

This already happens from time to time to completely disallow the BLUFOR to gain any intelligence points what so ever. If this will also result in severe punishment for the unlucky mortar crewman that had some suicide people run into his shells, that could really ruin any incentive whatsoever to use the Mortar asset on maps where civilians are present.

Also, accidents happen..

I do agree that when people are killing civilians on purpose should be heavily punished, but there must be some sort of filter to make sure that playing BLUFOR isn't going to turn into a dread due to grieving civies.

As for extremely long spawn times or limitations: what is keeping a griever from leaving the server afterwards?

This is totaly true and really annoying. Maybe not counting mortar kills on civies could help alot.

[arjan]

Removing Civilians
Im actually for removing civilians.
Reason is that insurgency gamemode is quite a bit broken, in my opinion, and could use a revamp to make blufor and insurgents more focused in area's.
The insurgents could use the extra gun or rpg on the field with medic abilities which makes this problem absolete (right word?) Its also a fact that in most combat situations IRL the civilian population leaves the battlefield and are an battle indicator. so why not remove them?

Reason to be shot:
Or what might could work is giving the civilians IEDS and when they have placed an IED and have the phone out they are allowed to be killed. But im not sure about this idea. anything based around this idea might work?
Could give some marksman or snipers some actual role in insurgency?

But that is just my opinion.

[Mikemonster]

Info about the incident

Some big text on top of everyones screen:
"xXWolfsniper94Xx killed unarmed civilian"

I'd like to see this. I actually nearly suggested it in the other thread.

That way we could police the server by the majority, fingers crossed. Good old peer pressure.


Also guys, you don't mortar civilians, you cause collateral damage. We could have that as well in the notice screen for multikills. 'Soldier X has caused significant collateral damage'.

[Furst]

insurgency gamemode is quite a bit broken

i dont actually share the thought about removing the unarmed since i like the idea of having them in the game. the thought i do share is the quoted one, but unfortunately i dont have any constructive concept to adapt it.

ive chosen to play as civilian every now and then and what i always recognized is that its actually fairly useless at some point. it basically can be fun since youve got nice opportunities to support your team, but my idea of this certain support and the ways i see those kits used on the servers pretty much diverge.

in addition, im not that sure if those kits work so good at their actual design in the game. it seems to me that the current PR is a) quite a bit too "small" for this and b) players are hardcoded.

human shields, civilian spam, the ability to precisly kill with stones and almost not fearing punishment for doing so... in that matter even the bot @coop shows more teamplay than most of the human players with the unarmed kit that i often experience.

what is that medic bag for? did you forget that youre able to revive people with those pens youve got in youre inventory? that hook could be quite useful if you would a) use it at all and b) use it in the interest of your team! you think its awesome to be the 10th civilian in a team of 30 players while you see your caches goin down? youve failed at intelligent teamplay!

so much talking about the punishment of blufor players for accidentally or intentionally killing a civilian... how come? where are the counterparts? where are the calls for punishments or stricter rules for the civilian itself since it can be a huge pain in the *** and disturb the gameplay big time.

[BoZo_135]

I agree with most of the suggestions like Player Killing and Screen Blackout, however I think the intel loss should be FAR more significant. It's incredibly annoying when you and your two buddies all die as martyrs and Blufor gets the new cache location 1 minute later regardless of the violation of the RoE.

Just my 2 cents .

[Stealthgato]

As mentioned before, what "civilians" mostly do in pub games is just dive into incoming enemy fire and try to die as a martyr. Can you apply different penalties and judge every single "civilian" kill in PR? No. Most "civilian" deaths are people running into incoming fire and trying to get killed on purpose and punishing everyone indiscriminately is unacceptable.

[MaSSive]

Well I must admit this one is quite challenging task. We need to fix insurgency and all problems about it including this one, but lets not make another one.

We must think of this hard before we make a suggestion, cause we dont want to make gameplay impossible for Blufor this time by implementing a wrong solution.

It is said that mortars can be the problem, as mortar fireteam cant really see where they are shooting at, and this can cause them inoperable in time. If we implement any of these suggestion exact thing will happen.

So what next? We need to see if we can isolate this one. Can we somehow trough game mechanics, use different penalties or warning for mortar operators?

Example : if there is a punishment for blufor player that kills a civilian ( any of mentioned - screen blackout, negative score, kit restriction, killing a player on X civis killed ) is there an option to isolate mortar operators and implement different punishment for them? Or can player that requested mortar firemission on location where civi was killed be punished?

I dont see a problem in implementing this solution except from this one above I wrote. If nothing can be done to go around this problem, should we remove mortars from insurgency or remove civilians? Or can we be more careful when using mortars on insurgency?

So I pointed out on a possible problem with implementation of this solution, but I do agree that current system is broken and need to be tweaked, but lets not open another blackhole by patching this one.

As for punishment system I would recommend a not so different solution that implements almost all of the above.

-Kitlock & Punishments

On 1 civilian killed player gets punished with -100 TW points, and he gets a BIG ORANGE TEXT saying "CHECK YOUR FIRE!!! YOU JUST KILLED UNARMED CIVILIAN" after that another warning message saying "DROP YOUR KIT NOW OR YOU WILL BE SHOT!!!" - and if player drops a kit, all is fine, but he cant get any kit for 5 minutes. If not players screen fades to black and if he doesnt drops the kit he is killed ( same like when you pickup enemy limited kit ) and has additional 60 seconds to spawn.

On 2 civilians killed additional -200 TW points, same messages on screen, and kit restriction 10 minutes. If kit is not dropped same as above and additional 120 seconds respawn restriction.

On 3 civilians killed -500 TW points, players health is lowered slowly to 0, and on players health set back to zero, black screen will showup with message saying "YOU VIOLATED INSURGENCY MODE ROE - ARRESTED!!!" - player spawn is in deep minus on 5 minutes and he cant get any limited kit till the end of round.

Any additional civilian that is killed by player that reaches this stage will cause him to be killed instantly with additional minus 500 TW penalty and kit restrictions.

This can make room for server admin to implement negative score kicks on a server and cause players like this to be kicked or temp banned.

As you can see this solution implements 3 of the above suggested - Screen Blackout, Player Death and Kitlock and player death

Also along with this, a Info about the incident can be implemented too for every single incident that happens. Team Blufor gets a message "Player "Playernamehere" killed unarmed civilian and is being punished with {punishment here}"

[Marijan]

+1 Screen Blackout