C4 vs caches

[CommunistComma]

I'm wondering what the community thinks of C4 versus caches, namely the ability to throw C4 on a nearby wall and destroy the cache without ever actually seeing it.

Is this a bug or how the game is supposed to work?

[saXoni]

Enough C4 would blow the fuck out of weapon-caches in real-life, so I don't mind it. The defenders just need to be a bit more organised and set up a perimeter to defend so the CE won't get through.

[Mats391]

afaik its a bug and will be fixed at some point

[Rudd]

I don't particularly mind it either, though I just don't like it dropped from helicopters etc

[saXoni]

I don't particularly mind it either, though I just don't like it dropped from helicopters etc

That is kind of lame, yes. However, the feeling you get when you achieve it is amazing.

[Brainlaag]

Depends, on maps like Kokan it can become really frustrating, as no matter what the INS team puts up, one LAV-3 (Stryker) suppressing the compound walls, coupled with a fast G-Wagon (Humvee), can bypass any defenses. The CE just needs about ten to fifteen seconds to drive up, stop, place the C4, drive away and finally detonate the charge, blowing all the Insurgents' hopes to hell.

It's another flaw in an utterly disrupted gamemode. Also taking into consideration, that IRL coalition forces always examine the cache and make a catalogue of all present weapons, explosives and any other kind of devices before they blow it, this is just another step away from the so called "realism" in PR.

[Wicca]

One could make them more "powerfull" as in. WHen you find a cache, it takes 4 C4s to blow up. Requiering the combat engineer.

[MaSSive]

One could make them more "powerfull" as in. WHen you find a cache, it takes 4 C4s to blow up. Requiering the combat engineer.

^ This...but in suggestions not here

[Mikemonster]

Combat engineer lonewolf ftw.

# cache blows up #

Wtf was that?
Lol ninjas ftw!
LOLOLOLOL

Also known as 'im in ur well constructed defences, C4ing ur caches'. Negates actually bothering to build FOBs around a cache etc.

I killed a lonewolf combat engineer twice running the same way to the cache the other night. Suicide tactics.

[Cassius]

2 kits are avaiable, if the attempt is fail, you have to wait for the kits to be avaiable again. I see it not that often that a cache is blown up by c4.

[dtacs]

It's the only method I use now, incendiaries are always a last resort even for unknowns. Cache destruction is more important than squad survivability and sacrificing the squad so the CE can get it down in time is the way to go.

1. Flood cache area with numbers to distract enemies.
2. CE places C4 outside within 10ft of cache regardless of static objects inbetween.
3. Waits 15 seconds either killing himself and/or squad in the process or trying to escape.

Tickets are regained for the loss of the squad and the team is 1/7th of the way to victory. Rinse and repeat.

Whilst realistic in concept, the manner in which it's employed is grossly unrealistic. It destroys what insurgency gameplay is trying to produce but is really the only option for the vast majority of cache placements, especially when un-reachable in a cave or building.

[MaSSive]

dtacs, you should keep in mind that this tactic you speak of is suicidal, and that many servers have rules about that. I would never allow such things to happen.

Keeping squad alive is what matters, and no cache is more important than that. When in the game I try to think of it, how would I do if this is real combat. Focus more on that, not on wining, and you will have much better experience.

[dtacs]

In the suicidal situation I refer to the ultimate extreme. I dispatch the CE kit only to the most experienced players I know (in 90% of cases, selemeister) who most times can get away but often lose the kit after being shot by remaining enemies.

Focus more on that, not on wining, and you will have much better experience.

I respectfully disagree. My playstyle is about fun, and I have fun through completing objectives and winning. Fun gameplay always topples the realistic gameplay argument.

Each man to his own however, I personally think that the game should come before encouraging a realistic environment.

[English_infidel]

i dont like it.the ins are on the back foot anyway. i see it all the time the 2 man c4 team sneak in and blow the ceche. its easy enough for the blufor as it is with the kit they have. it happens all the time . dont say you gota set up defences properly because they havent gota get close to it. its a cheap way of winning and frustrating when theres 10+ men around a known and boom .. thy ninja sneekuth the rest is history.

[Cassius]

In the suicidal situation I refer to the ultimate extreme. I dispatch the CE kit only to the most experienced players I know (in 90% of cases, selemeister) who most times can get away but often lose the kit after being shot by remaining enemies.

I respectfully disagree. My playstyle is about fun, and I have fun through completing objectives and winning. Fun gameplay always topples the realistic gameplay argument.

Each man to his own however, I personally think that the game should come before encouraging a realistic environment.

You should also respect what the game is about, because the majority of people might be looking for a certain experience and when they are obstacled in that by other players there will be tension. Imagine somebody logging into L4D and trying to do tactics bound overwatch and whatnot, I am sure all the gamers will be hella annoyed.

But yeah, there are Admins for that sort of thing and if within the same game you get a server that is like this and a server that is like that, then everybody logs unto his fav. flavour and everybody is happy.

[Sgt. Mahi]

You should also respect what the game is about....

Quoted for truth...
Suicidal missions shouldn't be allowed for bluefor in general. C4 is a valid tactic if you have a squad with you. Lone wolfing is not really in the game's spirit and is often a suicidal strategy.

I do hope they remove the unknown cache in the next release or something that protect caches for lonewolfs. Could be great if caches only were possible to destroy if minimum three players were in the radius of 10 meters or something like that.

[lagopus]

The Devs have said that its a bug and its ment to be fixed. And it should, whats the point of setting up a good defence in a compound, when one man can simply walk up to the wall set the C4 and blow the cache. They will easily be covered by armor or other troops so you cant stick your head up. In maps with a lot of open terrain this is a huge problem.
Also when cache is in a tall building, you got 10-15 ins in the building, cache in 4th floor and boom there it goes.

Let the C4 take down caches, but not thru one wall, or ten.

[splatters]

The Insurgency gamemode is all about defeating the enemy and taking control over the cache area, then destroying the cache. Exploiting the C4 glitch ruins the game for everyone. Far too often the lonewolf with the CE kit also just so happens to stumble upon the unknown caches in the beginning of the rounds.

It would be near impossible for a single man to successfully destroy a weapons cache within seconds of finding it.

My suggestion how to fix it: (can't be arsed to create a thread in suggestions that would go through censoring first anyway)
Either remove the C4 entirely from all the _ziptie kits (used in insurgency mode) or make it so that the cache can withstand multiple C4s directly attached to it, so that it would require ammunition from supply boxes to destroy it. Blowing up a cache through a wall is fine by me if that requires resupplying the CE, but not as it is now.

Destroying the cache is already easy and fast enough, too easy for my taste. As far as gameplay goes, it should not be possible to be able to destroy it with a single C4!

[A.Wickens]

In the suicidal situation I refer to the ultimate extreme. I dispatch the CE kit only to the most experienced players I know (in 90% of cases, selemeister) who most times can get away but often lose the kit after being shot by remaining enemies.

I respectfully disagree. My playstyle is about fun, and I have fun through completing objectives and winning. Fun gameplay always topples the realistic gameplay argument.

Each man to his own however, I personally think that the game should come before encouraging a realistic environment.

As you say each to his own but it is Project Reality afterall.

I think we have to take some personal responsibility for the quality of gameplay, as others have hinted at. A bit less of the 'Ooh Ninja Video' style attitude and a bit more 'Ooh coordinated assault on the cache utilising real world tactics'.

Each to their own but we try to encourage the latter on the TG server as best we can. Suicide tactics are lame, overly gamey and do nothing for quality gameplay.

[kingofthreads]

I find the use of C4 to be perfectly fine. It means that as an insurgent I cannot simply stay near the cache and wait for the blufor to assault. Instead I have to push out beyond the cache >25 meters to set up a defense to keep squads who may use C4 at a distance. Also the presence of the CE kit means I and hopefully the rest of the team will be more alert than had it not been present. Also once you have found and killed that combat engineer the insurgents can take it back to main and make bomb bikes that can easily knock out the blufors armor and FOBs making the weapon deadly in both hands.

C4 also helps the blufor as many caches are simply unbelievable in their positioning and a team can get stuck on a single cache leading them to failure. With C4 you can get rid of that cache that has hampered the team and move on to a less frustrating cache.