Project Reality Forums

in pr, can there ever be a time in battle when engaging and killing a civilian has tactical value that outwieghs its penalty (like increased respawn time)?

i think there are situations where killing target civilians has sufficient tactical value that such an action should be taken when ordered by the SL. generally this happens with explosive weapons.

like when a heavy vehicle (apcs, tanks u know) gunnner sees a mortal or catastrophic threat next to cilivians the gunner should engage the threat knowing civilians will also be killed. for example, an LAV-25 should engage an rpg or spg aiming at it even if civilians will die. example the 2nd: if any enemy is engaging friendly forces, they should be engaged with HE cannons knowing civilians will die. example the 3rd: all VBIED (bomb cars and trucks) should be destroyed immediately even though civilians will be killed.

the long spawn time for heavy vehicles and vast distances for the inf make players appreciate their lives in-game, good it should be. but that also means that if killing civilians will keep my heavy asset or squad alive longer, it is often worth it.

if this is not how pr is meant to be played, maybe the penalty for killing civilians should be increased. because as of now sometimes i give the direct order to fire on contacts knowing civilians will be killed. but not all players follow my orders to killing hostiles knowing civilians will be killed. so i know there is disagreement on this.

whats your opinion?

Completely wrong perception. Never kill civilians. If you see one back off, retreat. Thats why civilians are there, to prevent you shooting.

If he is in a bomb truck, he is no longer a civilian right? If you kill him, you get no penalty.

Accidents do happen, civilians get killed. More of that happen, you will have deep minus, and long spawn, your team will lose intelligence points.

If you see rpg next to civi, suppress him with coax and retreat. If everyone would go careless killing civilians in combat, this world would suck pretty much.

NEVER kill civilian.

sometimes you have no choice, and often a good squad lead will know when there still "civi" and when they have "collaborated" with the insurgents meaning you dont lose points when you kill them. But on occasion, when i feel my squads safety has been or is being compromised by civi spys who are directing mortars or techies to our position, ill give the order to fire on them

60 seconds after using (getting out) a vehicle you are a civilian
60 seconds after droping any weapons you are a civilian
60 seconds after using epipen you are a civilian
60 seconds after using a rope you are a civilian
60 seconds after spawn you are a civlian

(Am I wrong somewhere?)

So basically always watch what civilians did, so you know when you can kill them without penalties.

'[R-COM wrote:MaSSive;1725520'] [1] If he is in a bomb truck, he is no longer a civilian right? If you kill him, you get no penalty.

[2] ...your team will lose intelligence points.

[3] If you see rpg next to civi, suppress him with coax and retreat. If everyone would go careless killing civilians in combat, this world would suck pretty much.

1. i mean that if civlians are close to a VBIED the VBIED should be engaged and destroyed immedeately even though civlians will killed too.

2. losing intel points may be better than losing the tickets from killed infantryman and assets.

3. suppressing with coax may still not stop a determined and skilled rpg gunner, resulting in loss of tickets and assets.

thats why the penalty should be increased for killing civilians IF pr is not meant to be played this way

Intel point loss isn't that bad, most maps have easy to predict cache locations.

If you shoot a civi it will however give you a long spawn time which disrupts squad movements. And it removes your ability to select special kits which are crucial to squad success. Usually shooting civis as infantry is bad.

Also take into account that if that civilian (collaborator) happens to be near insurgents you have just shot, he usually must be terminated or else he will revive those insurgents and they will shoot you in the back. If you don't feel like shooting the collaborator and re-engaging the OPFOR, just make sure you outpace the guys he revives.

If you are a heavy asset crewman, fire away on civis. If you lose your heavy asset you need to wait 20min anyways, there is no need for a quick regroup or special kit.

Pvt.LHeureux wrote:60 seconds after using (getting out) a vehicle you are a civilian;
60 seconds after droping any weapons you are a civilian;
2 minutes after using epipen you are a civilian
2 minutes using the CPR (resuscitation) hands;
60 seconds after spawn you are a civilian

Above is right, below is incorrect.

60 seconds after using a rope you are a civilian

I order fire on civilians only if the last two caches are known, if they are covering an enemy that is a potential threat, or if they are simply a problem. Majority of times a skilled Specialist can deal with them, even at range.

dtacs wrote: I order fire on civilians only if the last two caches are known, if they are covering an enemy that is a potential threat, or if they are simply a problem. Majority of times a skilled Specialist can deal with them, even at range.

Mmh great strategy there

But is it really worth the long time spawn and the score to 0?

The spawn time isn't that bad in my opinion, its not like we're killing them in huge numbers

And score is irrelevant.

I just ignore civilians unless they throw rocks at me, they simply don't exist in my world until that point

if they are near enough to risk a handcuff rush, its probably a trap, so ignore

if they are far away there's nothing you can do to them anyway since the punishments can screw the squad over by losing a man for a long respawn or preventing him being able to request a kit at a critical moment


Just Ignore The Civilians, the only time civilians should be killed is if there is an enemy shooter using them as cover and you will die if you don't take teh shot.

it seems to me the respect for life on pr is a no no when against insurgents.they just smoke the civvis up most of the time without a worry... another thing, people seem to get the ump when ins drop there kits and become unarmed,in my eyes theres no problem with this because in real life this shit goes down, they fire a few off then throw the ak over mohammeds compound then piss off home.people moaning about "fake civvis" .. like your man said up there, its your job to abserve and use the ROE correctly. there should be a more punishment for killing civvis im my opinion.

If I realize civilians will prevent me from being a 100 % concentrated, I shoot them. There's nothing worse than being hit by rocks thrown by civilians when you're trying to get to a cache, revive a guy, etc etc.

saXoni wrote:If I realize civilians will prevent me from being a 100 % concentrated, I shoot them. There's nothing worse than being hit by rocks thrown by civilians when you're trying to get to a cache, revive a guy, etc etc.

supress him and arrest him. hes not hurting you. just pissin you of f

English_infidel wrote:supress him and arrest him. hes not hurting you. just pissin you of f

While doing this I will most likely get shot by an AK waiting right around the corner.

saXoni wrote:While doing this I will most likely get shot by an AK waiting right around the corner.

dont run round corners...... common sense goes a long way with this mod

for example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKozhLZepzs

Infidel, Rocks can kill someone who has just been revived, and can indeed do damage to those who are severely injured, I once, by pure luck, killed 2 people from a squad with stones before they started to chase me, which resulted in a hail of AK fire as they exposed themselves.

And I'm pretty sure Saxoni meant if he was to run round the corner, not that he does. So insulting his intelligence won't help matters

As far as civilians are concerned people are saying that they the BLUFOR are not having the right attitude towards civilians, but IRL would a civilian allow a member of any militia force fire an RPG over their shoulder - willingly? And if so would the extreme close proximity and the nature of the situation not present them as being hostile? And with their 'Civilians' also being their combat medic, (of which when against conventional forces is possibly the highest priority to wound/kill) it seems a bit strange that they are the ones we have to ignore when they are on an unconventional force. And before people state, 'oh well once they med up they can be killed..' it does not mean once they have revived you suddenly get insta' kills, they can still take cover, allowing him, and the possible RPG team or w/e he has revived to become a threat again.

Personally, I think, to limit the number of times civilians are engaged, maybe review their helpfulness towards the insurgency, currently they are spotters, medics, decoys, carry ropes and are still capable of picking up another kit to kill/destroy, on top this they are not meant to be shot. due to the uncertainty of the suggestion and relevance to this thread I won't take it to the suggestions forums, but possibly tweak their capabilities, which in turn may tweak the likely hood of being shot.

English_infidel wrote:dont run round corners...... common sense goes a long way with this mod

LMAO - are you trying to teach me how to play PR?

saXoni wrote:LMAO - are you trying to teach me how to play PR?

Lol no who dya think i am wicca?

AFAIK the rocks can injure you no matter what. I have killed people with a single rock to the head in this game.

Only time I don't care about killing civis is if they are standing on the cache and it's so damn good defended that the only way we can get it is by spamming HE rounds in there. Have had caches that has cost us lots of tickets and lots of time, half an hour of pretty much constant attack +, only for me to get tired of it and roll my APC up on the best hill around and order my gunner to fire. I'd rather have one guy in my squad, even if it's me, wait a bit longer then having 5 more inf squads fail at getting the cache.

And score doesn't really matter.

As inf I, on a general basis, only shoot them if they are about to kill one of our guys in some way, or I'm 99% sure it's within the ROE.

And then again accidents do happen from time to time.
As CAS I try my best to not kill them, but sometimes you just can't help it.

English_infidel wrote:Lol no who dya think i am wicca?

As if he would ever teach me anything useful.