Project Reality Forums

I'm not quite sure what you mean in your post, especially when you start referencing the medic.

Are you referring to the squad leader in the sense of:

• Guy who has the officer kit
• Guy who is willing to take charge and lead the squad using tactics & orders

???

I'd say most people don't really care about the first point, since any nufty who creates a squad can get that kit and it's not symbolic of any sort of experience or skill.

The latter however, I believe is still highly valued, especially for people who haven't gotten bogged down in the scummy attitude of 'continual specops' or the like. A good squad leader, especially one that doesn't get too demoralized throughout the match can make a game fun even when your team is losing. It creates a whole extra level of immersion, and also allows willing grunts to focus on the important job of shooting, rather than trying to make decisions on their own.

Personally, if I'm not being listened to by (a) squad member(s), they receive one warning and then a kick from the squad, as I have no time for people who are wasting 20% of my SM space while not listening to me.

The problem with an is it's only good for the abilities the kit gives.
A) FOB's
B) Radio
C) Rally
D) Colored smoke (Which many times isn't used effectively/or at all)

thus if you don't need those thing's at the time it can be quite useless to some squads.

SLs have much pressure on them, that's why some guys love to be sq member than SL itself.
SL sometimes leave server for one reason, awful teamwork.(I'll alt+F4 if there is no teamwork at all)

The SL is a vital role.

with out leadership theres no guidance or direction, without direction every one might as well be wondering around by themselves trying to just find something to kill. then they get killed cause they have no one to back them up.

bottom line leadership might not be the most "killy" but he is responsible for leading his squad and keeping them alive.

i personally love to squad lead i may not have as much fun sometimes do to bad team mates that are "uncooperative," but its a important role some ones gotta do it. and i love to do it.

The SL sure is a vital part of any PR team. He's the link in between squads in setting up attack/defence-plans.

I never play SL on AAS maps but can occasionally take the role as Opfor INS. There is one simple reason for this. I do not consider myself good enough. I believe that the SL should know all little tips and tricks on the maps, he should know what tactics work and don't on the maps. I don't. And as a result, if I where to take the SL position, I would not be able to give the squadmembers "value for their money".

However, there have been a few times when I've had to take the role due to the real SL ctd'ing/disconnecting. And with a good squad that understands the situation and support the SL, there is usually no problem.

Communication is the key to everything. If you have a good base of communication within the squad, you will achieve great things.

The OP should possibly be read as divided into two topics.

1. Players' lack of interest or desire to SL affects squads

Not everyone is interested in going SL for their varying and personal reasons. If someone doesn't want to SL, I respect that. There is the chance that the squad would turn into a league of lone-wolves if that squad were to continue without an SL.

Many players who understand how PR works would probably leave that squad and try to join another which already has a working SL.

2. The importance of the SL kit.

T.A.Sharps wrote: I personally see it mostly when a SL has left the squad in the middle of a match, and no one wants to take charge. Players seem to have a fear of being labeled in that role. I've actually seen a whole squad exhibit that, however would still try to interject their own "orders" after someone else or my self have taken SL for the squad's sake.

That's why the worst squadleaders are the one who rage quits...

Than you're not the kind of person I'd like to see in my squad.

My perfect squadmate (when I'm SL'ing): he doesn't think for himself about what flags we should take, etc., of course, I'm open tu suggestions, but there have been situations when people do what they're intended to do even If i'm ordering them not to (autokick). Instead he focuses hard only on his duty - as a person carrying specific kit (be it medic, AR or anything) or driving/gunning a specific vehicle and also as a squadmember (covering sectors and others automatically).
I start to get frustrated when people don't understand the basics, like how to cross the road, how to move down the road, how to revive in hot zone. It's all in the youtube vid's and PR guides. But mainly my frustration is because those things are like the basics of everything - they're so logical even a cow with tacticool gear would do that.

The main reason I'm reluctant to start SLing in a public game is because I won't leave once I have. Sometimes I will if I'm done, like for the day, and I've given the squad a good 45 minutes to an hour at least, but generally I'm in it for the long haul and I see it like I'm taking a responsibility for the fun of the squad so I'm not gonna invite people to play with me just to drop them.

With that said, yea sometimes the job sucks. Either guys don't listen to you, or even worse you get annoying people who don't so much suggest courses of action as they argue about them with you, which begs the question why they aren't SLing themselves if they are so opinionated on it.

Me, when I'm in someone else's squad I respect the fact that its their squad and that as such they're in charge of it. I can't pretend to argue with them. If I don't like an SL I just leave, which is a pleasant prerogative of the squad member. I don't do that when I SL. Like I said, why I can be reluctant to lead randoms I don't know in pubs.

If people don't respect the SL itself, as an authority figure, then thats their problem. The only solution to that is play on a server that promotes better teamwork and where the less driven teamplayer basically gets driven out of the server, hopefully, by the fact that most of the squads are as demanding on him to not be a ****.

just because you are SL doesn't mean you should ignore your SM's stategy or ideas. sometimes i Sl sometimes not. if i notice the squad doing something stupid i'll say it. if the squad continues to do stupid stuff or be useless i leave it.

the Sl kit is not the most useful kit ever, sometimes i dont take it depending what im doing. if im assaulting a cache from a fob and i have a medic, ar, specialist, nadier and rifleman. why would i take SL kit when i could grab a combat engi kit instead? if somebody wanted a rally, sucks to be them... i'd rather kill a cache.

illidur wrote:just because you are SL doesn't mean you should ignore your SM's stategy or ideas. sometimes i Sl sometimes not. if i notice the squad doing something stupid i'll say it. if the squad continues to do stupid stuff or be useless i leave it.

the Sl kit is not the most useful kit ever, sometimes i dont take it depending what im doing. if im assaulting a cache from a fob and i have a medic, ar, specialist, nadier and rifleman. why would i take SL kit when i could grab a combat engi kit instead? if somebody wanted a rally, sucks to be them... i'd rather kill a cache.

Yeah, if I SL I always try to take suggestions and ideas from SMs, or discuss shit with them. If I'm the SL, I'd rather have people tell me what I'm doing wrong then leaving the squad without saying anything. It's also normal for better players to school the bad ones, but they should appreciate the responsibility and energy these players put in to try and lead a squad. There's alot of good players who don't squad lead simply because it requires too much energy (the repetitive job of trying to keep your squad together or yell at people who don't follow orders), or maybe they're affraid to take responsibility - although I don't think this is so much the case as the first reason.

When you have squad that is willing to work together to achieve what needs to be done. I personally will do what I can to make the SL useful to both the squad and the team. Like many have said if I don't like the SL I just leave and try another.

When I SL I try to be open to other peoples suggestions, especially on INS maps where there an many times your stuck wandering around a map waiting for intel/bluefor to show up. In those situations I will ask the squad if they have any ideas for a course of action. For many people are dedicated people who know more then they want to let on. When I have a squad who is willing to express ideas we seem to do be one of the top squads as well as seeming to have the most fun. If I get a bunch of sheep those are the slow games for me because I know quite a bit, but I still don't know all and make mistakes.

illidur wrote:just because you are SL doesn't mean you should ignore your SM's stategy or ideas. sometimes i Sl sometimes not. if i notice the squad doing something stupid i'll say it. if the squad continues to do stupid stuff or be useless i leave it.

the Sl kit is not the most useful kit ever, sometimes i dont take it depending what im doing. if im assaulting a cache from a fob and i have a medic, ar, specialist, nadier and rifleman. why would i take SL kit when i could grab a combat engi kit instead? if somebody wanted a rally, sucks to be them... i'd rather kill a cache.

The SL is the most teamwork kit in the game, bar none. It's not just rallys, which are hella useful and you should be able to drop at all times, but also spotting, patching other people and yourself, requesting using radio, and lazing.
Whenever I see a squad over 4 members where the squad leader has something other than an officer kit, like a marksman, I think "yup, that guy's not gonna talk to me"
Or it's an Od-s squad, which is probably worse. Please don't copy them.

illidur wrote:just because you are SL doesn't mean you should ignore your SM's stategy or ideas. sometimes i Sl sometimes not. if i notice the squad doing something stupid i'll say it. if the squad continues to do stupid stuff or be useless i leave it.

the Sl kit is not the most useful kit ever, sometimes i dont take it depending what im doing. if im assaulting a cache from a fob and i have a medic, ar, specialist, nadier and rifleman. why would i take SL kit when i could grab a combat engi kit instead? if somebody wanted a rally, sucks to be them... i'd rather kill a cache.

It's not so much that people don't like to as it is getting an actual squad that will listen. When I started PR nearly 5 years ago back in 07, I would get on and everyone had a common notion of what to do, regardless of the server I went to. Although I loved TBA back then.

Moving right along the overall team cohesion is lost, squad cohesion isn't as great due to the culture being watered down among the community itself.

And partially because of that fact that as I stated before if you're not setting rallys or building then for the most part it can be a little useless, there isn't a great emphasis on the kit as there once was.

A group does not always need an authority figure to get thing's down it just speeds things along and gets them fighting one enemy(Hopefully) rather than each other.

CommunistComma wrote: Or it's an Od-s squad, which is probably worse. Please don't copy them.

Please define, as I fail to see how our squads are bad at all. We might not take SL kits when we're casually derping around or when a further specialized kit is required, which still allows an SL to use mumble comms to co-ordinate, whether or not they do is that particular player's preference. As well, things are made increasingly difficult when coordinating with other SLs who aren't knowledgeable or aware of appropriate tactics on a given map and instead of accepting suggestion get instantly defensive because "OD-S clan is incorect".

PFunk wrote:

This, so much

Can we please not reply to this thread anymore and let it have a very slow and painful death as it descends to the bottom?

If OD-S doesn't have coordination or teamwork please challenge us to a friendly match and prove how noob we are.

SL kits give you the ability to place a fob and a rally, marking is a null point as there are plenty of other methods to inform the team of enemy positions (marks often go ignored anyways). If you have a competent medic there is no need to place a rally, and if you are far ahead of the team in contact with the enemy getting supplies won't happen any time soon without high risk logi driving. If the squad is actually cohesive (something a bunch of randoms will rarely do, they would often rather one man army it up brraaa) you can stroll right up to the enemies first/second flag with little difficulty. Now when the supplies have arrived the SL who has our AT kit can now request the SL kit and deploy a fob and goodies. We have now used a 4 man squad with LAT/SPC/MED/SAW to establish a strong point for the team to spawn on and we have been more effective then someone running with an SL kit. The only real redeeming factor is the rally points, and with DBs changes it makes the SL kit considerably more potent and something you should actually have in your squad 100% of the time. All other points can easily be circumvented by smart comms and actual teamwork, something a bunch of random pubbies would struggle to understand but comes naturally to a group that has played together for years.