Project Reality Forums

Hello all! I would like to ask everyone here what they think was wrong with the previous TART.

And what they can improve.

The CO signups and TART Announcment will come soon, but before we start id like to just get some ideas on what you all want.

For those who dont know what TART is, its a Tournament hosted and organized by Me. We are changing the setup abit, and I just want to check if the new organization is appropriate.

Check out the website: TART - Teamwork and Reality Tournament

It is a PRBF2 Tournament, with its roots from the PRT.

Wicca you removed all access and permissions on TART forum where we already discussed all plus and minus, why do you bother starting new one ? Now I gotta remember and right up all that things

/CC

what do you think was wrong wicca ? Maybe this offers a better base for debate then me just slurring accusations on chain of command and inefficiencies from my limited view as grunt on the losing team.

And before anyone mentions the squad system, remember, if you never try something new, mods like pr would never have existed...

First of not reaching maximum capacity of players, I was really disappointed when I joined and found out there is barely 32vs32. Solution? Don't start the tournament with half ready, half size and stressed out teams. Rather wait then end up like last time, or if you find it that it takes too long to reach 64vs64 in each team (+reserves) at least don't start 'til we have over 40 - 45 players in each team. Last battles when 1 team had double the size of the others teams players it was just sad playing... Don't play at all then and for all players who have or will participate next time, promote and encourage others to join the tournament, bring all the people in community, and your friends - This tournament is really good kick off for a insight of how PR should be played, no matter the outcome. And don't be afraid to join it, you'll get more friends in there then you already have

I can't speak for my teams Chain of Command (MULE) but I know for sure we had both good boys and bad boys in our officer staff But we succeeded to keep a high quality of team spirit. And by the way, no offense but every team/clan/army has shitty Chain of Commands, so just get used to it, or if you want to improve, help out

Announcement for upcoming battles is kind of late when looking back on previous battles, shape up!

Discipline and behavior should be improved in both teams, Who cares if you're leet, bad ***, famous, troll person or any kind of that stuff, behave people. During trainings, deployment phase (before battle start) or any kind of gathering all officers and admins should supervise the behavior of all players, no matter what team, platoon or squad you belong to - if you're grunt, act like it (sit still and shut the fuck up 'til someone tells you otherwise) and if you're officer and doing trolling, the punishment should be twice harsh then for a grunt. It's easy as A&B - 1,2,3, Don't like it, leave it!?

I'll probably come up with more (I just forgot what I've wrote in last forum) and I would like to see what others have to add.

/CC

One of the biggest issues was how long sign ups went without any activity. I think we never approached 'max' capacity and then a lot of the people we did have just lost interest.

CORD had one commander basically not there after the week before the first battle meaning we had one commander for the longest time until I was bumped up to be a CO.

I think momentum is important. I also think that 128 players is a really tricky thing to pull off and there was perhaps too much casual on the fly thinking during Tart 2 for that to work.

I think if you want to make another go of it with more than 64 players total, you need to not be at the mercy of the numbers issue. The simplest solution to that in my mind is that you just have a maximum number of players that you constantly increase in proportional increments.

-Start with a set sign up period, say maybe 2 weeks, well advertized in advance to ensure good interest, and with a minimum goal of reaching teams in size that are equivalent to a reliable 32 vs 32 player match every 2 weeks (I think in the old PRT days this amounted to an upper maximum of 55 per team or so total roster).
-Next have already developed a kind of staged increased max team size in mind, figuring for how the admin and players think that you can increase roster team sizes in order to increase in server team sizes without creating a heavily imbalanced battle day turn out (like to prevent a 27 vs 41). This would involve carefully keeping track of current team roster sizes, the reliability of day by day attendance, and then controlling how on going sign ups must be directed to keep both teams roughly equivalent so that one team cannot simply get a huge influx of players that would imbalance things.
-Overall have a very direct and constantly probing relationship between admin and commanders to ensure that the functioning of the teams is going as the admin see fit rather than going on trust that everything is A-okay.

Said it in on the Tart board, saying it here: CC is right!
Organisation was a mess, Chain of Command was a mess.
And ofc Teamstacking.

How can we improve Organization Chain of Command and Teamstacking?

Improve organisation by simplifying stuff, on forums and in game. If you have to apply in 19875 threads to get into a squad, its tedious.
Chain of command was a mess because of the big squads on CORD and SLs being inactive, lots of changes etc. I dont see that as a eprmanent problem, just happened that way.
Team stacking. I did tell you that people could sign up in a general pool of players, then be randomly split dispersed in two teams when it fills up. Some might land in with their friends, some not, but that makes it interesting and you meet new people, see how they play etc, and frendly rivalrly would bring out the best in everyone not clans sticking together like little *******.

SET IT ON AUTUMN-WINTER TIME, not when people have finals on spring to do. <- this very important.

Arnoldio wrote:I did tell you that people could sign up in a general pool of players, then be randomly split dispersed in two teams when it fills up. Some might land in with their friends, some not, but that makes it interesting and you meet new people, see how they play etc, and frendly rivalrly would bring out the best in everyone not clans sticking together like little *******.

God how I want to see this.

TART - Teamwork and Reality Tournament

Opend the archives for the public. If you see any "bad" threads let me know and ill delete it. But for the most part it should be public friendly information.

I can't say that there was anything wrong particullary (I was an inf sq SL). But the waiting before battles and some comm issues were a bit of a letdown. Had no other problems or annoyances. Oh, almost forgot - the user application process is too beurocratic. What I mean by that, is that you have to note with really f*** big font that he has to signup twice - once for tart in general and second - in the squad.
One thing could help - an automatic spam letter to every individual that approaches (signs in in the 1st section) with every little bit of info in understandable manner that could help him to get to his squad and to know the ins and outs of TART.

Cossack112 wrote:SET IT ON AUTUMN-WINTER TIME, not when people have finals on spring to do. <- this very important.

Yes this. I forgot all about this even though it became obvious that htis was a huge issue for TART.

Late spring the most common reason I kept seeing people resign was because of school work and essays and exams and such. Its just the worst time to get major committments out of people. Sept/Oct through til April at the latest with a christmas break is a perfect time frame.

I think too much effort was made to try and fix the problems with how the PRT was run without actually paying any heed to the things that the PRT did right through trial and error over the course of 9 campaigns.

Also, I found it personally frustrating how hard it was to get some things done. Before I was made a Co-CO I had to go through so many hoops just to get some stuff done adminnistratively. At one point I was told that I had to tell my commander who would tell the admin who would get wicca to do something because the chain went Me>Casualty>Raic>Wicca and some things only Wicca could do.

Sometimes it was a bureaucratic nightmare. In the PRT admins would just step up and do this or that minor administrative thing cause it was necessary. Too often I ran into a bureaucratic formality that requires some kind of stupid formal permission from the commander and even if I told the admin that my commander had told me to get it done they would need him to say it... like I was gonna lie or something.

Just because I don't really care. On a personal note "Clans sticking together like little *******" Clans are formed to play as an organized team, so it makes sense they would want to play together.

That is all.

SGT.Ice wrote:Just because I don't really care. On a personal note "Clans sticking together like little *******" Clans are formed to play as an organized team, so it makes sense they would want to play together.

That is all.

Love the attitude brah. Inspiring.

Clans have a way of making things harder on the people who aren't in clans. Clans have a way of breaking up the team cohesion by being overly self centred and focused on their fun instead of the team's fun. You're supposed to join the team, not join to play as your clan. Clan guys want to play together, neat, but its a privilege that they get to play as a fully realized clan unit because admin and team commanders are supposed to keep the best interests of the tournament and everyone's fun at the forefront.

The kind of elitism that can arise from clans in tournament teams leads to attitudes like the ones I observed many times: "Just kick all the bad players and bring in these clan guys so we can win." Or people thinking that since they're special, better than other players so they earned their spot in battle even if they slacked off on training days and show up late (had this argument with people before).

I don't have a problem with clan squads per se, but frankly I've no patience for **** headed behavior that can arise because of them. People who are selfishly interseted in their personal enjoyment or their clans over the overall team and tournament are the kinds of people that can derail things, any organizational or admnistrative issues aside.

Clans should be very welcome and even encouraged to participate in tournaments, but I do not think its in anybody's interests if tournament managers desperately court clans in order to achieve nominal success at the cost of the quality of things.

Basically clans will generally focus on their interests, and thats normal, but its important that those in charge of teams and independently administering the tournament keep the broader priorities in mind as well. Team commanders have a way of wanting to win, sometimes blinding their better judgement, thats why tournament admins are there to keep impartial judgement over things. I think its important to remember how important the lead admin are in keeping a tournament in order, and being careful to balance clans with pubbers in the team structures is key to making the tournament a success.

My best experiences in tournaments has not been with clans, but instead with working with randoms who come together to be great units at the squad level and even more broadly into a team itself. That is the best value that tournaments have for the PR community.

SGT.Ice, you got served. Thats why clans play clan matches, no need for them to take a tournament as a clan match against other randoms. Like football clubs. They are mixes of the best players (given the financial state) and they duke it out for fame and money, as opposed to World Cup, where its country based with best players of any countries and thats the fun of it. If you would see Manchester United as England an AC Milan as italy, then its the same as watching Champions league, no point int that.

It all depends on what side you are on and which clan is with you. Bears Platoon (SRF) has been in both TART and PRT and have always been heavily invested into the team they played for, heck I think half of the Tournament Clans that you described were actually formed BECAUSE of the tournaments and the squads that made randoms fight with other people they got to know. OD-S for one has always been split over the different teams of tournaments, and in our own TS we have had some inter-team rivalry going, always fun.

On my actual feedback it seems that people still try to overcomplicate things when it comes to tournaments. You don't need plans that explain every single person what their job is in this. If the Squad leaders know it's good. In the end you as a team can practice dry runs as much as you want but in the end no one will know what do when they actually run into contact. If you have this eleborate plan that you worked out into the most miniscule details and one of the squads get's killed in their initial deployment, you're done for.

In the end I think a tournament would be fresh if there was people in the commander and other high command spots that have never been associated with any tournament or atleast not as an officer. But I don't think there are enough of those people, especially those willing.

MaxBoZ wrote: In the end I think a tournament would be fresh if there was people in the commander and other high command spots that have never been associated with any tournament or atleast not as an officer. But I don't think there are enough of those people, especially those willing.

This I agree with. And I think those people who could do it, either dont step up. Or is content with their current play.

Be it with events or something else. But hoping for the best, getting some great Commanders to Sign up.

Would be nice to see two completly balanced teams, albeit impossible. Atleast the Tournament should be set up to favour the underdog until he becomes alpha male.

I gotta say that all that clan-bashing (in relation to TART and in general) is pretty disrespectful. People should stop making these accusations when on every damn pub server we are playing one of my guys is the only one in times to build somewhat intelligent fobs...for everyone else.

We played as a squad, as a clan and we really went long ways to ensure our teams victory.
Not our personal fun. We had training sessions, created battleplans, tried to work and talk to our command staff and generally put a lot of effort in the preparation.

And what did we encounter? Teams that were barely able to follow a simple plan, show up at time, behave while waiting, put some effort themselves, follow planed kit-layouts, etc.

For me personally, apart from the incomplete teams, that was the biggest letdown of TART. I joined to "play as it was meant to be played" with strong and prepared opponents that would think of ways to counter our tactics and give us a hard time...Instead we fought an enemy that had only 3! mortar positions on such a perfect map as Marlin and a Commander that was hunting down snipers close to the enemy main base...

When it comes to it. You can either have a completly random team selection system. Which is completly unbiased and delegates people randomly. Or you can use the clans that join to some extent to balance the teams along with the COs.

It is Unrealistic to randomly put people on each team, since I am by default biased. Since I am human. I would reather use the clans or groups that join, and let them play togheter. This might make the tournament ready sooner.

Opposed to complete randoms, who might not even bother checking the forums, since they werent placed with their mates. As such, clans make the major difference of balance in the tournament, with the tag along public players with no affiliation in between.

That being said, it is very important people leave their clan tags at the door, and play for their team as opposed to their clan, which in some cases is hard to do. Due to events and matches that happen on the same date.

We do find it somewhat problematic, that the "managment" or similarly a certain member gets pissed of and uses their affiliation with the others and threatens to leave. Making that team weaker, or the tournament completly broken. Due to one persons inability to accept a managment decision. It gives me a harder job, and instead of giving the team a good leverage, it makes the clan run the tournament major decisions as opposed to the managment.

Of course this rarely happens, and in most ways, the players decide what they play. It is important that everyone follows and obeys the set of laws set. And do not think, that because you are the "clan leader" you can just take everyone in your clan and just leave. Its a hard tradeoff, and usually has alot of issues. But communication and common sense removes almost all of the issues.

Hopefully this campaign will have level headed clan leaders, who accept that they cant all play togheter, but will for the most part be grouped togheter. And that perhaps also help on balancing the teams, by accepting some unpopular decisions on leadership and delegation of numbers.