Project Reality Forums

Just wanted to bring this up for discussion. My thoughts are that PR is hardly a game filled with cheaters (I don't think I've ever heard of or encountered one, outside of ghosters, which isn't something Punkbuster can do anything about) and the servers are so well admined any cheaters would be banned pretty much immediately, and so it would seem Punkbuster isn't really needed as a cheat-prevention measure.

Anyway with that and the fact that Punkbuster causes tons of technical problems for lots of people (not including myself, if you're wondering) and is generally a nuisance, I was wonder if there might be merit in simply getting rid of it in PR. I also heard canning it might help with certain game developments, so yeah.

I see an occasional PB ban being enforced. So, you were saying...?

Great argument, but there are several useful features that punkbuster has, which are invaluable to maintaining the integrity of the gaming experience; in this case, making sure that knuckleheads don't modify the game/mod, in particular, the .tweak files I would think. It also ensures that there are layers of administration available on the servers. What you're calling for (and I don't think you realize it) is anarchy in a gaming experience which is already ruthless and at times frustratingly harsh. Here's the list of functions performed by punkbuster, grabbed from Wikipedia:


PunkBuster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Real-time scanning of memory, a feature also prominent in many programs, by placing a PunkBuster Client on players' computers searching for known hacks/cheats using a built-in database.

Throttled two-tiered background auto-update system using multiple Internet Master Servers to provide end-user security ensuring that no false or corrupted updates can be installed on players' computers.

Frequent status reports (encrypted) are sent to the PunkBuster Server by all players. When necessary, the PunkBuster Server raises a violation which (depending upon settings) will cause the offending player to be removed from the game and all other players to be informed of the violation.

PunkBuster Admins can also manually remove players from the game for a specified number of minutes or permanently ban if desired.

PunkBuster Servers can optionally be configured to randomly check player settings looking for known exploits of the game engine.

PunkBuster Servers can be configured to instruct clients to calculate partial MD5 hashes of files inside the game installation directory. The results are compared against a set configuration and differences logged, and optionally, the client removed from the server.

PunkBuster Admins can request actual screenshot samples from specific players and/or can configure the PB Server to randomly grab screenshot samples from players during gameplay. However, it is possible for a game hack to block screenshots (producing a black screenshot) or remove all visual features of a hack (cleaning the screenshot) to remain undetected, leaving the effectiveness of this feature diminished.

An optional "bad name" facility is provided so that PunkBuster Admins can prevent players from using offensive player names containing unwanted profanity or racial slurs.

Search functions are provided for PunkBuster Admins who wish to search player's keybindings and scripts for anything that may be known to exploit the game.

The PunkBuster Player Power facility can be configured to allow players to self-administer game servers when the Server Administrator is not present entirely without the need for passwords, in which the players can call votes to have a player removed from the server for a certain amount of time.

PunkBuster Servers have an optional built-in mini HTTP web server interface that allows the game server to be remotely administered via a web browser from anywhere over the Internet.

PunkBuster Admins can stream their server logs in real time to another location.

PunkBuster has initiated Punkbuster Hardware Bans, that bans hardware components upon detection of cheats that disrupt or circumvent PunkBuster's normal operation. These bans mean permanently banning players whose HD id matches the blacklist at Evenbalance. The cheater will have to buy new hardware to be able to play again.

Great answer, that is fascinating.

Punkbuster checks for MD5 tool mismatch like mentioned, the kind of things that anyone could modify to have an advantage over other players that admins can't notice, such as making footsteps louder and hear them from further away. This is the kind of stuff that admins or players can't notice like an aimbot.

Just like a smart cheater won't have a KD that is unbelievable, just one that is better than average, yet still possible. PB pisses me off all the time, but in the end it is needed.

Either im not a cheater, or im a stupid cheater. Huehuehue

Just an example, ive deleted all the important info.


Its a year old but look at the frequency these get dished out, you can picture the rest.


Ill rather put up with PB issues than have all these people running around PR.

[PBBans:249335 2012-02-02] "GAME HOOK 125119"
[PBBans:249247 2012-02-01] "Caught by PBSS ESP HACK"
[PBBans:249232 2012-02-01] "Caught by PBSS ESP HACK"
[PBBans:249231 2012-02-01] "Caught by PBSS ESP HACK"
[PBBans:249212 2012-02-01] "GAME HOOK 125119"
[PBBans:249179 2012-02-01] "Caught by PBSS ESP HACK"
[PBBans:249087 2012-01-30] " "Caught by PBSS MULTIHACK"
[PBBans:248791 2012-01-28] "Caught by PBSS ESP HACK"
[PBBans:248648 2012-01-27] "AIMBOT 51015"
[PBBans:248450 2012-01-26] "MD5TOOL 9002"
[PBBans:247664 2012-01-22] "GAMEHACK 80589"
[PBBans:247425 2012-01-20] "AIMBOT 51015"
[PBBans:246954 2012-01-17] "AIMBOT 51015"
[PBBans:246925 2012-01-17] "MULTIHACK 70854"
[PBBans:246830 2012-01-16] "AIMBOT 51015"
[PBBans:246751 2012-01-16] "GAMEHACK 89234"
[PBBans:246555 2012-01-14] " "GAMEHACK 80453"
[PBBans:246547 2012-01-14] "MD5TOOL 9002"
[PBBans:246496 2012-01-14] "GAMEHACK 80453"
[PBBans:246428 2012-01-14] "GAME HOOK 125119"
[PBBans:246223 2012-01-12] "AIMBOT 51015"
[PBBans:246117 2012-01-12] "GAME HOOK 125119"
[PBBans:245814 2012-01-10] "MD5TOOL 9002"
[PBBans:245671 2012-01-09] "MULTIHACK 70854"
[PBBans:245538 2012-01-08] "PB HACK 139015"
[PBBans:245130 2012-01-06] "GAME HOOK 125119"
[PBBans:245106 2012-01-06] Caught by PBSS ESP HACK"
[PBBans:244900 2012-01-04] "GAMEHACK 80453"
[PBBans:244872 2012-01-04] "MULTIHACK 70854"
[PBBans:244653 2012-01-01] "GAME HOOK 125119"

These aren't bans that were happening on your server or people trying joining your server.
The messages from PBBans broadcast all cheaters that just got banned from ANY server connected to the PBBans network.

no shit, didn't know that. But still, point stands lol PB is useful.

This is a link to our team bans (note includes other games) - but you will note that there are bans enforced for PR.

PB does cause problems, and yes the smart cheater will know how to work the system to avoid getting caught.... but not having a goalkeeper isn't an option imo...

I'm curious why is the majority of those cheater IP?s from Australia?

Because GAU is Australia based
Noddy posted the bans from "his" server/community.

My Punkbuster client is up-to-date, nevertheless it kicks me of the server from time to time.

Rakskum wrote:My Punkbuster client is up-to-date, nevertheless it kicks me of the server from time to time.

Same. It happened on the Insurgent map Kokan at CIA Kokan and Hookers and it said 'Loosing Key Packets, banned for 2 minutes'

There is not really much the DEV team can do against these punkbuster issues.
All you can do is report them to evenbalance.

{ZW}C-LOKE wrote:Great argument, but there are several useful features that punkbuster has, which are invaluable to maintaining the integrity of the gaming experience; in this case, making sure that knuckleheads don't modify the game/mod, in particular, the .tweak files I would think. It also ensures that there are layers of administration available on the servers. What you're calling for (and I don't think you realize it) is anarchy in a gaming experience which is already ruthless and at times frustratingly harsh. Here's the list of functions performed by punkbuster, grabbed from Wikipedia:


PunkBuster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Real-time scanning of memory, a feature also prominent in many programs, by placing a PunkBuster Client on players' computers searching for known hacks/cheats using a built-in database.

Throttled two-tiered background auto-update system using multiple Internet Master Servers to provide end-user security ensuring that no false or corrupted updates can be installed on players' computers.

Frequent status reports (encrypted) are sent to the PunkBuster Server by all players. When necessary, the PunkBuster Server raises a violation which (depending upon settings) will cause the offending player to be removed from the game and all other players to be informed of the violation.

PunkBuster Admins can also manually remove players from the game for a specified number of minutes or permanently ban if desired.

PunkBuster Servers can optionally be configured to randomly check player settings looking for known exploits of the game engine.

PunkBuster Servers can be configured to instruct clients to calculate partial MD5 hashes of files inside the game installation directory. The results are compared against a set configuration and differences logged, and optionally, the client removed from the server.

PunkBuster Admins can request actual screenshot samples from specific players and/or can configure the PB Server to randomly grab screenshot samples from players during gameplay. However, it is possible for a game hack to block screenshots (producing a black screenshot) or remove all visual features of a hack (cleaning the screenshot) to remain undetected, leaving the effectiveness of this feature diminished.

An optional "bad name" facility is provided so that PunkBuster Admins can prevent players from using offensive player names containing unwanted profanity or racial slurs.

Search functions are provided for PunkBuster Admins who wish to search player's keybindings and scripts for anything that may be known to exploit the game.

The PunkBuster Player Power facility can be configured to allow players to self-administer game servers when the Server Administrator is not present entirely without the need for passwords, in which the players can call votes to have a player removed from the server for a certain amount of time.

PunkBuster Servers have an optional built-in mini HTTP web server interface that allows the game server to be remotely administered via a web browser from anywhere over the Internet.

PunkBuster Admins can stream their server logs in real time to another location.

PunkBuster has initiated Punkbuster Hardware Bans, that bans hardware components upon detection of cheats that disrupt or circumvent PunkBuster's normal operation. These bans mean permanently banning players whose HD id matches the blacklist at Evenbalance. The cheater will have to buy new hardware to be able to play again.

I dont see anything here that couldn't be "gotten over" in order to better our experience with PR. I have played the game for a long time and when someone is hacking you would know it. It's not even that hard to notice. When people get one shot killed when they were firing at that guy they go " MAN THAT GUY WAS HACKING" but the more you play the game you find out that it goes both ways. I seriously think all these "Features" are shit and not worth the hassle of getting disconnected and the server crashing.

doop-de-doo wrote:I see an occasional PB ban being enforced. So, you were saying...?

You see all BF2 servers not just in PR but Regular BF2 and all the other mods.

'[R-DEV wrote:BloodyDeed;1853357']There is not really much the DEV team can do against these punkbuster issues.
All you can do is report them to evenbalance.

You could vote or decide on removing the choke around the necks of your community. PB is holding you back in terms of people wanting to reload the huge *** map loading screen and get real involved in the high quality game you made only to be beaten down by PB when we as a community have proven that we can come together and share information and protect the game that we all love so dear.

xambone wrote:You could vote or decide on removing the choke around the necks of your community. PB is holding you back in terms of people wanting to reload the huge *** map loading screen and get real involved in the high quality game you made only to be beaten down by PB when we as a community have proven that we can come together and share information and protect the game that we all love so dear.

So you suggest that Project Reality, and all that the name entails, create our very own anti-hacker system?

My server streams to PBBans. This actually has saved us a great deal of hassle in terms of investigation and interdiction of hackers.

Your PB GUID is linked to your IP and all the other PB GUID's from the other games you play. by your IP and Alias. That simple fact has allowed me to personally find and ban 3 applicants to CIA where I would have no other way of finding out their transgressions.

This also give our server access to the PBBans master ban list with filters out all the proven hackers(GUIDs) from our servers and makes hackers work very hard to circumvent our defenses and spend more money on Redacted, which always ends in the servers winning because the hacker gets bored.

So, short of making our own version of PB and/or PBBans, and in light of the festering disconnect and 9014, what should we do to maintain this level of interconnected information and security?