Project Reality Forums

Hello guys!
I am really annoyed by people who hip fire their AA missiles. Let it be Strela or Stinger.
All the same.

My question is:
What do you think about this? Is it realistic that you can fire the missile without having a lock?

Should it be fixed or forbidden by server admins?

Thanks for your answers!

Yeah, It's realistic.

The "lock on" sound has nothing to do with the trigger mechanism.

Now that the AA on cache bug is fixed, it really isn't a big deal anymore.

Don't worry, the MADPADS in PR 1.0 will have similar properties to deployed weapons, meaning that they cannot fire without scoping in first and will not lock, or they will have horrible accuracy when fired.

As for now, server admins can't really regulate the hipfiring of MADPADS, because unlike solo-ing a heavy assest or teamkilling, when a person hipfires a MADPAD, there's nothing that tells the admins that they are in fact hipfiring and not scoping in.

Yeah, can't wait for that to be fixed.

I hate it, but I still do it because it's more effective than using it properly.

Yea me 2!
The missile would never find its way to the aircraft if the head seeking warhead isnt activated.

pretty annoying though it's better than waiting for the lock
almost every hip-fired AA destroys the helicopter

I love these threads.

I remember when I first found out it was good and then everyone started using it. One could say I found it out!

lets hope the devs will to something against the hip fire sh1t.
maybe theyll make the missile dud if the AA doesnt have a lock.

Guys, take a look at this video and you'll see the changes to MADPADS in PR 1.0

PR 1.0 WIP sound showcase - YouTube

Handmademayonnaise wrote:Yeah, It's realistic.

The "lock on" sound has nothing to do with the trigger mechanism.

Now that the AA on cache bug is fixed, it really isn't a big deal anymore.

I believe it's NOT realistic. Not sure about hand-held aa's, but deployable stinger can not be fired with no lock IRL. And btw hipfire doesn't give you lock on sound, but missile still locks on target, and in aircraft you can hear warning just as the missile hits you...

L4gi wrote:One could say I found it out!

And one could not.

The problem is that doing it the right way, waiting for the lock is that it just makes the MANPADS close to useless. There's no way you can hit a helicopter if you waiting for the lock, meaning trigger the "lock" alarm for the pilot. As soon as the pilot realize he's locked on he just deploy flares and make a sharp turn and that's it. Now I don't know if it's realistic for flares to be that efficient but it hurts the gameplay that choppers are near impossible to take out.

L4gi wrote:I love these threads.

I remember when I first found out it was good and then everyone started using it. One could say I found it out!

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-p ... -list.html

dev's have known about this and been trying to fix it for a while, there's an AA deviation increase in the 0.96 changelog. I remember someone asked about it, and a dev replied with a video of him shooting at the chinook on archer with a stinger unsighted demonstrating how the glitch existed. I'll try and find it

Sgt. Mahi wrote:choppers are near impossible to take out.

Oh the days when winning on insurgency was all about shooting stingers from helicopters.

Sgt. Mahi wrote:The problem is that doing it the right way, waiting for the lock is that it just makes the MANPADS close to useless. There's no way you can hit a helicopter if you waiting for the lock, meaning trigger the "lock" alarm for the pilot. As soon as the pilot realize he's locked on he just deploy flares and make a sharp turn and that's it. Now I don't know if it's realistic for flares to be that efficient but it hurts the gameplay that choppers are near impossible to take out.

this is a speed thing. A slow moving helicopter is SAM bait, but a fast moving one will get away from a single strela or stinger missile most often, evne dumping the double igla/stinger, the built AA can be unsuccessful. The handheld tools as infantry on a conventional map like kashan are detterents at best, a lock will always scare away a pilot, or at least make him react. Of course if you have a lot of ammo, just shooting can be useful to get a lucky shot off, but it's just not the right weapon for al ong range shot, wait for it to get close. Best case scenario is that he gets cocky, and starts taking low, and slow runs, and that's when the missile goes to work. If you simply must fire at a top speed helicopter going in for an attack, you are rolling the dice.

Im sorry if you thought the weapon would just kill everything without any kind of tactics. I will say that the strela is a piece of shit compared to the stinger, though

The stinger hipfire is reserved mostly for against kiowas on kokan, really. The strela function swith the glitch, but nearly as well. At long ranges, and high speeds, it's much harder to use, and against trans choppers, it doesnt usuallydo the raw damage necessary. I've shot down one or two cows on kashan, but it was only because they landed, and couldnt take off due to damage. Even against attack helicopters, the damage is only enough if it lands quite close. It would only ever work on jets if the thing was flying right at you. It's funny to play against bots, because you can land unsighted shots on them 9 times out of 10.

I think the locking tone is just for the operator, to tell him the missile is turned the right way. I doubt you would have to wait for a lock, you probably would have instant lock as soon as the weapon faces a heat source. I think that you have to wait for a lock is more a gamy feature.

Methinks in a real weapon you get the beb beb when the weapon is ready to fire and the beeeeeeeeeeb when it faces a heat source it locked on, which would happen as soon as you turn it towards a heat source. So it would be realistic that you can instant fire an AA with a heatseeker turned towards and aircraft and unrealistic that you have to wait for a lock on. Like why would the weapon need a couple of seconds to lock on unto the heat source?

Also with an heatseeking missile you dont get a lock on warning irl. Maybe there are modern radar systems that detect incoming objects that could be missiles, or optics that look for heatsources that could be missiles, by running the radar input or other data through their computers, but when you did not have 21st century tech, you only got a lock on warning when a radar guided weapon was turned on you, because the system detected the radar that is tracking you.

Even today the SA-7 is very accurate and very effective and responsible for several shootdowns from the first gulf war to Afghanistan. The reason that there isnt a spade of shootdowns is the limited availability of working manpads, but those that do work and are used by an operator who knows what he is doing are very likely to find their target.

Cassius wrote:I think the locking tone is just for the operator, to tell him the missile is turned the right way. I doubt you would have to wait for a lock, you probably would have instant lock as soon as the weapon faces a heat source. I think that you have to wait for a lock is more a gamy feature.

Methinks in a real weapon you get the beb beb when the weapon is ready to fire and the beeeeeeeeeeb when it faces a heat source it locked on, which would happen as soon as you turn it towards a heat source. So it would be realistic that you can instant fire an AA with a heatseeker turned towards and aircraft and unrealistic that you have to wait for a lock on. Like why would the weapon need a couple of seconds to lock on unto the heat source?

Instead of thinking and doubting, to quote a very old commercial, "read the book."

FM 44-18-1: Stinger Team Operations - Chptr 3 Firing the Stinger

Also with an heatseeking missile you dont get a lock on warning irl. Maybe there are modern radar systems that detect incoming objects that could be missiles, or optics that look for heatsources that could be missiles, by running the radar input or other data through their computers, but when you did not have 21st century tech, you only got a lock on warning when a radar guided weapon was turned on you, because the system detected the radar that is tracking you.

Correct, but we can't do launch warnings rather than lock-on warnings and in this game there is no distinction between radar and IR guided missiles, there is only one type of guidance. This engine is 9 years old and wasn't very good even then.

Chopper pilots using 'realism' as an excuse to nerf the AA is hilarious - As in real life you don't get a warning tone from a passive seeker.

Derp.

Again the literal vs the representative in PR muddies the waters and allows anyone to claim anything they want and just differ the reason.

Don't personally see how it affects the pilot that gets shot down, seeing as he would have no way of knowing it was even hip-fired if the warning tone exploit wasn't included for his convenience in PR.

It does need fixing though.