Project Reality Forums

I am done teamplaying
Well I am not actually done with it, but very frustrated about it. Every topic needs a catchy title so stay with me for a second.


Here are some situations I experienced:



I was flying transport helicopters on Ramiel. For almost 3 hours. My favorite helicopter was the blackhawk. My estimate is that I transported over 80 players into combat safely. I did regular landings, roof landings, landings in narrow streets, and even ghetto attack runs with door gunners.

And that round went exceptionally well. I did not lose one single helicopter in combat. 4 times my helicopter took heavy damage and I still managed to land it on the airfield, with engines burning. Not a single passenger of my flights died during that round.
I was commended by quite a few players for my flying which made me happy. Even a guy who led our heli squad (using his mic to announce landing zones) commended me.

But then it all went to hell:

That guy went commander and continued to play and still using his mic a lot to talk to other squads.
During a flight in which I was landing 8 guys during intense fire my commander says something over the mic which I could not understand well because of the engine sounds. It was somethign along the line of ?whyy are you not responding??

Not having time to type it out because i was flying and getting shot at I ignored it. After all the engine was on fire and controls started to block and I barely made it to the heli pad.
Then an admin warning pops up:

Kicking for not cooperating with commander!

I was kicked.
Turns out, I moved up to squad leader in the heli trans squad because others left. Something I did not notice because who the heck pays attention to who leads in an effing heli trans squad. After all all we do is fly people to places.
But that is not the issue. An admin actually kicks me because my team commander did not get a response from me KNOWING I WAS FLYING A HELI RIGHT OVER THE INNER CITY IN RAMIEL.
And when I tell them I do not even use a mic the usual insulting starts: Go read the manual, go back to COD etc.
The weird part in this is: The guy who turned commander and ratted me out to the admin himself rolled one heli on its head on take off and lost 2 others during combat. But did I report that guy for ?asset wasting?? No I did not, because all I want to do is actually teamplay and fly helicopters.


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Another situation:
It was on Beirut. I was flying russian Mi17 helicopters and dropped off squads near that tall TV building in the far east, at the dock. After I dropped one squad I kept hovering in the area and one squad leader apparently disapproved of me hovering around, so he kept yelling something over local mumble which I could not understand because I was 70m away from him and the engine sounds were too loud. So he fires 5 shots at me, directly on my front windshield. I fly away and ask him: ?Why are you shooting at me, I am friendly you retard!?

He replies with: ?You call me a retard??

Then I get kicked after an admin message: Learn to fly helis


Little did that ******* know that I had good reason to hover in that place: I was hiding from an AA lock and that large building was the only cover I had.
And also, squad leaders from other squads have no effing say in how I have to fly my heli. If I think hovering for 20 seconds behind a large building is a good idea, then it is my right to do it.


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When I was doing ghetto gunship runs or actual attack heli flying I was reported to admins for improper flying because, believe it or not, I refused to fly 1km up in the air. Instead I preferred to fly along the terrain, popping up behind cover so my gunner can fire off some ordnance and then disappear again (something for which attack hellicopters are made for)
While most gunners agreed on my flying, those few idiots that reported me caused me to have actually defend my case to attack helicopter tactics illiterate admins so I do not get kicked.


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Another very common situation: Getting shot so bad that the heli controls block up and when I actually manage to land the thing before exploding, I get admin reported at times for ?crappy flying?. Excuse me but my flying was great until that .50 salvo or rpg hit my heli.

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Kashan:
Repeatedly trying to land troops near the bunkers and getting shot down because of strong AA and tanks parked on the ridge. I ask for our tanks to secure the area so I can land. But I get refused. So I try a different landing zone far north, near a bridge, I landed in a depression and got out to read the map and plan my next flight. (at the point of this writing helis, especially mi17 slide around like a piece of soap if landed, so reading the map is not a good idea).
A player who sees me next to my heli, an admin, asks me why I landed ?in the combat zone?.

I explain, it is to check the map and plan my next flight. He replies that you do not need to plan flights. Then I get admin warned to learn how to fly.
It is my effing right as a heli pilot to take a moment to check the map for threats and determine the best routes. No admin can take that from me. After all it is my responsibility to get all those soldiers who trust me when they enter my helicopter to get where they want safe.

1. Why was none of the tankers reported for asset waste? The commander failed ordering them to fight in the wrong part of the map and the tankers failed to support the actual combat area and shooing away enemy AA that prevented me from landing.

As you can see, commander failed, tankers failed. But the admins obviously overlooked that, yet the trans heli guy is the evil asset wasting *** for landing so he can read the map.

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Apart from the fact that I was using my helis well in most situations (I play PR since 2005-2006) and I flew helis most of the time, there is a glaring lack of skill when players use their kits or vehicles. Yet everyone is quick to call out a heli pilot for ?asset wasting?, or ?too newb to fly properly?



I have seen:

General idiocy of squad leaders leading players into certain death. By for example ordering all together to run across an open field without ordering an MG guy to actually setup to cover.

Armor crews having NO regard whatsoever to which part of their vehicle they should face towards the enemy. I had tank drivers drive their tanks backwards into the enemy showing their weak side.

Attack helicopters that fly sky high instead of doing what real helicopter crews do: Sneaking across the terrain at low altitude.


There is facepalming stupidity going on every round on this game. But that is not a bad thing. It is a game and players will learn from that experience. I make a lot of bad decisions during a game that get my character killed or wounded. (Except for my transport helicopter flying, that is impeccable ,..,) Also I never reported anyone for being in my eyes stupid with their gear. Yet I get reported for stuff that was not even stupid in most cases and admins usually act on that without properly investigating the issue.

Several things make teamplay very frustrating:

-Admins that are being asshats and abusing their power, kicking people for actually contesting them in an argument (see the squad leader who shot me in the cockpit window to make a point)

-Admins that often do not have a clue about certain real world use of military hardware (getting yelled at for not doing the ?PR standard? high altitude attack heli tactic). While flying high might have its advantages, I as the pilot have ultimate say in how i want to fly my helicopter.

-Abusive squad leaders. Who benefit from your medic healings all the round, then threaten to kick you off the squad ?if you do not regroup instantly!?
There is 2 things wrong with this:

1. The medic might have good reason to not regroup (perhaps he needs to get supplies, or is busy doing something else)
2. Threatening players for not doing exactly as you say is just rude, especially if they were helping you stay alive for some time.




- The legal battle. I call it like this because it is the attempt of a player to troll/abuse/cockblock another player by interpreting the game rules in a skewed way and then presenting that to an admin to get the other player kicked or removed from a kit. Happens every round.

-You use a sniper kit in a squad → Asset abuse
-You use a sniper kit far away from squads → Asset abuse
-You use a sniper kit and kill many enemies → This is not COD
-You use a sniper kit and fail killing anyone → Asset waste
-You use a sniper kit far away from squads with a spotter, doing nothing → Shining example of teamplay
-Your heli gets shot down → Asset abuse
-You do not land where they want → Asset abuse/L2fly
-You use a HAT on Falluja west → Asset abuse
(The HAT has some great uses on this map despite there not being any enemy armor, again, real world etc)
-Your ask someone ingame for a specific key → RTFM/BACK TO COD
(because not remembering a specific key makes you apparently a complete idiot)
-You fail to land properly after controls jam and your engine is on fire → L2fly
-You use a spotter kit anywhere, at any time → Asset abuse


-There is very little positive encouragement for good teamplay, only negative reinforcement, combined with mean players and abusive admins.


About squad leader authority:
I often object my squad leaders plan to ride into combat on vehicles. Especialyl since that plan fails many times because of idiot drivers who drive right into the enemy before dismounting, instead of parking 100-200m away before getting out. Many times I get kicked off the squad for that.
Is that nice? Fair? Abusive?

Some may say, the squad leader is the boss, and you shoul follow orders. While that is true in reality, in this game it can not be applied like this. Because players do not have to have any specific qualification to be a squad leader. So why risk a 50+ second black screen because my SL is an idiot?
Also attitude. My basic rule is: the more vocal on a mic a SL is, the more of an ******* he is going to be.
As a SL you do not GET to yell at people, or threaten instant kick if they do not follow you exactly. I refuse to bunch up in a bee line with 1m distance to my squad mate, because grenades.





About actual teamplay:

This game should be about actual teamplay, as in we all working together and being friends so we can win the round. Instead, as I so detailedly described, we get teamplay nazis.

They are teamplay bureaucrats that believe the only qualification to be a good PR player is to use a mic and know when someone is in a squad that is not appropriately named. (I saw rounds go to hell because someone called his squad Mi24 and someone else called his CAS and then a legal battle ensued which ruined the air support for that round because admins banned people left and right over claims who usurped whose rightful claim over a helicopter.

It was like Game of Thrones, but with helicopters and the stage was a cargo ship and the admins being clueless idiots that ran around stabbing people.

It basically went like this

Mi24 squad leader: ?Weee AAAAAH me DRRRRAGONS?
CAS squad leader: ?I am the rightful heir, *****?
Mi24 squad leader: ?VALAR MORGULIS!?

*poof* admins appear, start banning people





Why am I writing all of this?
This game needs positive encouragement for teamplay. Everyone seems to be painfully aware of when someone should get kicked for ?asset abuse?, but there is no mechanism in place to safeguard against abuse by squad leaders or admins.
It is not rewarding to be a teamplayer if you get warned or kicked or banned by admins after a complete round of teamplaying because of some admins incompetence, asshatery or his lack of understanding for military hardware.
I personally stopped playing medic on every server where admins have been mean to me. Also, medics from other squads seem to ignore you if you come to them asking for help. The basic attitude for medics in squads seems to be to treat anyone asking for medical help who is not in your squad as a traitor that should bleed out.

So if you want to be a good teamplayer, and not a teamplay nazi, ask yourself this:

?How can I help my teammates to win?? And assume everyone is doing the same.

Instead of the more common:

?How can I get someone into trouble with admins? Lets see, perhaps I can find a wrongly named squad.?


People might diss COD, or CSS but PR offers far more possibility for asshats to be asshats, because of the complicated rules and the ways admins can use to get people kicked. PR is a more complex game and therefore many possibilities for asshats to troll/cockblock/abuse players are there. This is not a fault of the game, after all, this games main draw is the more complicated and deep combat simulation compared to CSS for example. But the emphasis on punishing perceived rule breaks in this game went overboard to the point that this game feels like it has its own spanish inquisition whose only aim is to get people into trouble with admins regardless of that situation is a misunderstanding or not.

But assuming that PR players are more mature? That is an illusion. The asshats are equally present in all games. But due to the complexities of PR, they can cause far more damage than in CSS for example.


Btw I enjoy all of the 3 mentioned games above equally so do not even go there if you want to say what I think you want to say.


So yeah, I would like to shout this out:
Let's all be friends do some real teamplay. Assume the guy next to you actually wants to help you win.













and be nice to transheli pilots

Classic examples of admins thinking they are know it alls -when they actually know nothing. Good post - this happens far too often.

Attack helicopters that fly sky high instead of doing what real helicopter crews do: Sneaking across the terrain at low altitude.

Only this I don't agree with is this though, Attack Helicopters will always dodge AA lock when they fly high enough (apart from enemy CAS) which means you are more likely to survive.

and be nice to transheli pilots

Amen brother.

Which servers were you playing on?
Afaik the admins differ greatly between the servers. So maybe you should reconsider where you are playing or maybe write a complaint on that communities forum!

Only this I don't agree with is this though, Attack Helicopters will always dodge AA lock when they fly high enough (apart from enemy CAS) which means you are more likely to survive.

This opinion is obviously arguable, I personally do not like flying high as .50 guns can still get you. Both tactics can work and fail depending on the pilot. But after all the choice is with the pilot of the helicopter to decide it. Not the admin.

Which servers were you playing on?
Afaik the admins differ greatly between the servers. So maybe you should reconsider where you are playing or maybe write a complaint on that communities forum!

I left the names of the servers out here so this does not turn into a server admin complaint topic.

I don't understand what you are talking about. (or I do, but this has never happened to me) I never get complained about even if I can sometimes be a little bit an asset waste with tanks. Though this one time people vaguely implied to me that I should engage enemy armour, but that's it. And friendly medics always heal me as long as they hear me and I'm a bit obnoxious so they WILL hear me.

Very good post. Admins should get their facts together first and then act, its hard and time consuming sometimes but its right thing to do for players who keep your servers up.

I thing that chopper pilots get yelled very easily because of lack of talent to fly those things. I have seen chopper crashes so many times that i can easily determine if pilot is going to crash or not. If you are going to fly chopper, there will be HUGE pressure for you to succeed. You MUST NOT FAIL! But afterall, shit happens, even for good pilots. And thats ok. But learning to fly on populated server = Kick

When i am squad leader i listen my marines. And if they have a good plan or suggestion, i go with that. I have been in situations where my suggestion have been too much for SL and he just ignore my comment. Even when other squadmembers say "Hey lets do that, its more safer and faster way", SL says "No."

So SL, work as squad and life is funnier and easier.

and be nice to transheli pilots

Stupid admins. I dislike irrational people/impatient idiots. Making an e-drama without thinking, and always resorting to a course of action that involves arguing and/or banning or kicking.

But yeah your experience sounds gut-wrenching. Respect to the pilots of PR.

I thing that chopper pilots get yelled very easily because of lack of talent to fly those things. I have seen chopper crashes so many times that i can easily determine if pilot is going to crash or not. If you are going to fly chopper, there will be HUGE pressure for you to succeed. You MUST NOT FAIL! But afterall, shit happens, even for good pilots. And thats ok. But learning to fly on populated server = Kick

I know accidents, you should see me driving trucks on a map I dont know.

"Hi I am stray cat, welcome to Jackass(tm)"
*tumbles down hillside after missing narrow turn*


Also it is ok to get angry at your heli pilot of you die in his heli. I often yell mean stuff at pilots that get me dead because of their flying or even a legit enemy fire shootdown. And they yell at me if I do.

But that is all fun and game. I dont mind someone telling me I am an idiot for gettign shot down, after all no one likes watching a black screen for a minute. But it gets weird if people start calling admins on you for that.
So in short: telling your heli pilot that got you killed an idiot is fine.
reporting him for that is being an ******* however.

GET A MIC!

Change server?

I rage sometimes but only really against non communicative types.

Epic post though.

ATM so many people crash helis because of inexperienced players and wheels admins are perhaps over sensitive.

Turn down your effects so you can hear others talking to you while flying and get a mic, it's very important for getting coms out fast.

1. I can not alt tab ingame because of RAM, so messing with some program outside of PR is out of the question during the game.

2. I do not use mics (for reasons I am not going into)

3. That guy who ratted me to the admins had no right to rat me out, as he could have seen as a commander that a pilot who is busy not getting shot down cant type anything in chat. AND WHO THE FUCK REPORTS A TRANS HELI SQUAD LEADER TO ADMINS FOR "NOT REPORTING IN"? AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT TYPE OF ADMIN ACTUALLY ACTS ON SUCH A REPORT? IT WAS AS IF ADMINS BASICALLY JUST SIT AROUND WAITING FOR THE COMPLAINT SIREN TO GO OFF AND THEY HAND OUT KICKS. LIKE A TRAINED CIRCUS ANIMAL. WANT AN ADMIN TO REMOVE A GUY YOU DONT LIKE? ACCUSE HIM OF LACK OF TEAMPLAY. Seriously get me a fucking break, commanders are borderline irrelevant on most maps and especially to trans heli pilots. All we need from a commander is to mark landing zones using the markers and advise over chat. And mark dangerous areas.

That guy was a 100% ******* who only wanted players to get hurt. Besides what do you think is more important to a team? Pilots that dont crash or commanders that place markers?



btw I forgot, the crown achievement of admin failure was this, happened 3 nights ago. I was arguing with some guy over all chat on a BMPs vehicle classificiation. It was a simple argument but the admins got angry at me and warned me to stop talking all chat (not warning the other guy), so I replied that I will shut up but they should get their shit together and not just punish one side.

Fun part was that I was just loaded up with 5 infantrymen and flying them across the map.

Then I got kicked, the heli crashed, killing 5 passengers. Luckily I dematerialized and was not on the server thanks to the kick.

Classic case of admin going "one more word or..." + 100% no awareness of what is happening

This all seems pretty circumstantial to me, however admins should be asking for a reason first.

To be frank the only CAS heli you need to fly low with is the gazelle.

What's the point of NOT having a mic? Don't you realize you are reducing your squad efficiency by not having it? Get a mic and save yourself from half of these troubles you listed. If the guy next to me wants to help me win then he should get a mic becouse I don't wanna think that he might be putting us in danger becouse he is so vulnerable while typing, and I don't want to read the chat in combat situation where every second matters.

If you have been treated badly by a server feel free to go to the server feedback and explain. If it's anything servers don't like it's bad feedback - especially when it's public

I get your frustration about admins being know-it-alls but don't think being an admin easy! Some server also have rules - which needs to enforced about communication if you don't have a mic you are likely to be kicked. Don't use a mic? Seriously you are playing PR in 2013.

And the all chat thing is all on your own. Getting warned - still not shutting up about a pointless argument - get kicked.

Once the noobs, console players and CoD boys leave it'll all be good.

A more mature answer: Lead by example, be happy in your maturity, own teamwork and own skill and forget the lacking of these things in others.

Stray cat, I'm not even surprised of your post. The community has been following a wrong path those two last years in my opinion and friendliness has been lacking quite a bit. Only a thousand players and such problems, this is incredible.

Though, you really need to use a mic!

If you have been treated badly by a server feel free to go to the server feedback and explain. If it's anything servers don't like it's bad feedback - especially when it's public

I get your frustration about admins being know-it-alls but don't think being an admin easy! Some server also have rules - which needs to enforced about communication if you don't have a mic you are likely to be kicked. Don't use a mic? Seriously you are playing PR in 2013.

And the all chat thing is all on your own. Getting warned - still not shutting up about a pointless argument - get kicked.

From what I experienced, writing a complaint about admins is useless in most cases, especially on their own website, because admins have more friends on their side so it is a waste of time. See I have a general distrust towards admins UNLESS it is the actual server owner or someone who is helping to pay for its upkeep. These guys invested actual money and I assume they want the server to work properly more than anyone. But people who vuluntarily do admin so they can "help"? Sounds too much like 20 year old kid who craves policing power with little responsibility. And someone with an inclination to abuse power is going to wait all round for the slightest misstep of a player to release all that craving to abuse, which leads to admins kicking people like a bear would catch a fish you throw at it


About mics. Players might have good reasons to not use one. Discriminating against that is not a good idea.

Yeah, I gotta say. These players are probably getting angry at you because you will not respond by voice. Typically, obviously this is generalizing, most players will think someone is new or has no idea what they're doing if they can't hear you talk. It's the reason why having a microphone is so essential. People in general don't like to talk to someone who is just going to type back. They're getting little to no feedback from the stranger on the Internet they're talking to so it makes them feel a little awkward.

If you do something wrong, people like hearing an apology with actual emotion, rather than some words across their screen "I'm sorry." Do you feel any emotion from that?

I've never once been kicked for crashing a trans helicopter or for any of the situations you mentioned that I've been in. I honestly think it's completely because you don't have a microphone to smooth things out with the other players.

Now if it's a health issue that you can't use a microphone, then by all means you're excused from it.