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The new insurgency is flawed. Relying on one guy from who knows squad to take out a cache is silly. Please reintroduce the fire grenades to take out a cache. I have countless times with my squad surrounded and cleared a cache only to have insurgents pop up and kill my squad cause the kit was unavailable or the guy with the kit was derping it up. When the cache is in a 3rd story building or underground where blufor assets cant reach, it really ruins the gameplay. Having to rely on one kit to destroy unreachable caches is flawed and needs to be reevaluated.

Its not one kit....

Its Breacher, Engineer and HAT.

Its fine as it is. Dont mess with it.

In the case you mentioned it just means that your squad was ill prepared to take on a cache objective. If you knew you were going in for the kill then you would bring the necessary equipment along.

this is the extreme end of where we were when the cache system began.
it used to be that anyone could grab a rope and use one torch to ninja the cache
now we're playing with limited kits and specialized demo roles operating inside of squads

it makes sense, but people need more time to get into the mindset. the specialist isn't just the guy with a rope anymore. he's the last man standing, stay on a pivot and objective focused. i think that the engineer needs a command detonation for the large c4, personally. keep the smaller charges on a fuse. that would better simulate the nature of the role.

this ties into the fob scenario's that have been discussed since beta. with incendiaries removed, the average grunt is removed from the core task. it's working, but not without turbulence. we're accustomed to very different strategies.

notmyingamename wrote:it makes sense, but people need more time to get into the mindset. the specialist isn't just the guy with a rope anymore. he's the last man standing, stay on a pivot and objective focused. i think that the engineer needs a command detonation for the large c4, personally. keep the smaller charges on a fuse. that would better simulate the nature of the role.

this ties into the fob scenario's that have been discussed since beta. with incendiaries removed, the average grunt is removed from the core task. it's working, but not without turbulence. we're accustomed to very different strategies.

People will get used to it quickly. After the third time a squad fails to destroy a cache because nobody grabbed the breacher the SL will order someone to grab it. Most players already understood the concept and I rarely see squads without at least 1 guy carrying C4.

As for the rifleman, his primary task is to clear and secure a cache perimeter now and make sure the breacher can place his charge. Personally, I don't think it's a bad change, it makes INS much more interesting again.

Setup defenses and wait for someone more prepared to show up. If a rag tag group of insurgents can defend the location surely the most advanced military in the world can do it too.

badmojo420 wrote:Setup defenses and wait for someone more prepared to show up. If a rag tag group of insurgents can defend the location surely the most advanced military in the world can do it too.

The rag tag group of insurgents have unlimited tickets, the most advanced military in the world doesn't. The rag tag group of insurgents can build spawn points anywhere and without crates, the most advanced military in the world can't. The rag tag group of insurgents have at least 5 minutes to setup defenses prior to the first attack, the most advanced military in the world doesn't. I could go on all day, but i don't think it is necessary.

15 minutes ago i had a full squad in the cache, but couldn't take it out, as the breacher and medic kit were bugged, and couldn't be picked up by any of my squad members. It was in the basement in Fallujah and we were trapped inside, if we had incendiaries that cache would've fallen 25 minutes earlier than it did. Having a limited amount of kits that can take out the cache would be fine if they never glitched out and became unavailable, but this is PR, and we live alongside countless glitches, so removing incendiaries from everyone wasn't the greatest idea ever. Maybe giving 1-2 incendiaries to the SL and 1-2 to the medic (as now they have less patches, and the kit can be used with 2 players in a squad, making it accessible to squads with less than 4 players) would solve the problem, just make it so it takes 2 or 3 incendiaries to take down a FOB so people won't just take them down that way.

I personally find it a little bit too easy, similar to the previous version the easiest way at this point to take out a cache is to zerg it, keeping the Breacher alive long enough so they can place the charge.

And once its placed, that's it. Very similar to getting the CE to C4 the outside of a wall near the cache, killing himself in the process if necessary.

In my opinion the explosion from the cache when its destroyed should be the size of a hellfire, if not bigger. This would cause the BLUFOR to be alot more careful when placing the charge as they'd have to make sure everybody can get away in time.

Henrique_Dalben wrote:The rag tag group of insurgents have unlimited tickets, the most advanced military in the world doesn't. The rag tag group of insurgents can build spawn points anywhere and without crates, the most advanced military in the world can't. The rag tag group of insurgents have at least 5 minutes to setup defenses prior to the first attack, the most advanced military in the world doesn't. I could go on all day, but i don't think it is necessary.

-Unlimited tickets: How does that help defend a location? Having unlimited tickets doesn't help if everyone dies defending and the cache is lost. If you're implying that blufor can't defend a cache in fear of losing some tickets, well, they also gain tickets for destroying a cache, so it's a good use of tickets for a squad to hold a cache.

-Blufor can't build without crates: I guess knowing you're going to be assaulting a cache, you might plan ahead and get the logistics to move with the assault. Of course if you planned ahead, you wouldn't be worrying about building a FOB to defend an enemy cache. You'd just place C4 and leave.

-INS get 5mins to prepare: Blufor gets all the time they want to prepare to defend a cache. After all, they're the ones who decide when to attack.


Are you seriously arguing that blufor are at a disadvantage in insurgency?

would you attack without a medic? don't attack without a breacher

I had an annoying circumstance yesterday when a 'sniper team' of two lonewolfs ghosted to a cache we had and camped it as they couldn't destroy it. They tried to move in to destroy it by picking up the IED kit from the Insurgents, and we had an odd stand-off whereby we tried to spawn faster than they could spawn kill us (in the end we won as insurgents and killed them both).

It's a difficult one as we were able to spawn on the cache even after they had 'secured' it (we had no FOB's nearby), but if we weren't able to spawn there it would have been impossible to defend as we couldn't have actually built fobs because we couldn't have spawned in to build them!

How long are caches spawnable for, and do they go 'unspawnable' the same as a FOB if there are X amount of enemy soldiers nearby?

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:would you attack without a medic? don't attack without a breacher

I had to attack without a medic and without a breacher, because both kits were glitched and couldn't be requested by my squad. Making another squad didn't work either. Nice job removing all incendiaries.

Removing incendaries was a good idea, what is not good is that annoying kit bug. I dont know how often i had to create a new squad and wait 2 minutes to egt a medic. what you can do also is joining another squad like trans or CAS who dont need their medic/breacher and wait 2minutes before you request.

As i know this game is teambased, teamwork game, so call for hellp any other squad, u know u have mumble, use it! I have plenty situation like that, no breacher around, or breacher just disconnect or anything else possible, and i call for squads for help we secure area and wait. But again if u do some Teamwork, other squads shouldnt be far awa of your position or attacking cache!

But then again take Engineer kit, u have one big kaboom in backpack.

dtacs wrote:I personally find it a little bit too easy, similar to the previous version the easiest way at this point to take out a cache is to zerg it, keeping the Breacher alive long enough so they can place the charge.

And once its placed, that's it. Very similar to getting the CE to C4 the outside of a wall near the cache, killing himself in the process if necessary.

I totally agree, I played the breacher role today on Kokan as the US, and on two occasions the Taliban were mostly still alive but I'd managed to kill the 1-3 direct cache-defenders while the firefight was going on, then ninja placed the C4 while the rest were distracted by my other squad members. After that, they have no chance of saving it. It's still 1000x better than the old through-the-wall-killing-C4 of 0.9x though, IMO.

I wouldn't mind a 3p audible beep that is cued when you start to place the c4, at least giving the defenders 5-6 seconds to come kill you if they're in the vicinity.

I like it the way it is right now, as long as the kits don't glitch

Still better than when one guy whos not even in a squad can come in drop a couple thermites and run and kills the cache

OP the system is not broke.

every military in the world (conventional, para, militant) understands this one fact:

Did not bring the tool for the job, job does not get done.

Now the kits being bugged, that's bad luck and sucks but we shouldn't considering changing the game over it. We should consider getting some one to find out how the kits bugged out.

ghostfool84 wrote:Removing incendaries was a good idea, what is not good is that annoying kit bug. I dont know how often i had to create a new squad and wait 2 minutes to egt a medic. what you can do also is joining another squad like trans or CAS who dont need their medic/breacher and wait 2minutes before you request.

strange, I do not see a bug report on this subject, perhaps you could make one...include what map you were on, etc

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:strange, I do not see a bug report on this subject, perhaps you could make one...include what map you were on, etc

The issue has been present for multiple versions. One instance was where my 8 man squad couldn't request even one medic kit, without anyone leaving or joining the squad since the start of the round.