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Not seeing many servers play this yet, but it seems like it has a lot of potential that it isn't getting a chance to show off.

One thing I find disappointing about it is the lack of spawns for the Russians on either of the coastal flags. Especially so for East Beach: It'd take well over 5 minutes for a Russian transport truck to get from the main base to the beach, which is plenty of time for the USMC to roll in completely unopposed and probably start setting up in the town north of the beach, too!

It's release in the 0.973 map pack got a lot of flak for the spawns at the beach and the bleed at the beginning, but I don't think removing those spawns was the right way to go... It's a shame to not see the USMC make use of the firepower they have to knock down the beach forts and take over.

I'd suggest putting spawns back, directly on both beach forts and one in the eastern town, with no crates, and no vehicles other than the possible transport truck. To offset the bleed caused by owning these flags, the USMC should start with a significant ticket advantage.

Ideally, what this would mean is that the Russians would have a small, lightly armed defense force in the forts, and the USMC would have a high-power landing force with the CAS Huey, AAVPs, and if things are really going bad the Harrier, providing support to knock down the forts.



Other than that, I really just want to get a chance to really play this map and see how it goes...

The coast flags are neutral at the beginning though so you don't lose any points, and if you manage to push the US off the coast then they take a heavy loss and start bleeding again.

I like this new setup much better than the old. It is much more even.

My god. If they put Russia spawns at East beach. ...
They gotta give America 4 harriers and a nuke lol.

It's much better now. But tgs Russia gets to spawn at both north and south bases?? So they get advantage still

matty1053 wrote:My god. If they put Russia spawns at East beach. ...
They gotta give America 4 harriers and a nuke lol.

It's much better now. But tgs Russia gets to spawn at both north and south bases?? So they get advantage still

Wouldn't the AAVP make short work of the beach forts? Especially with no crates/ammo, you're gonna get one or two shots with a rifle AT on it as Russia, if you're lucky enough to even hit it in the water. AAVP can light the hell up out of that thing, and then the nearest reinforcement wave would probably be still on the way by truck.

I sure don't have the experience with really playing the map to see how it really works out but it sounded like the biggest problem was the bleed was too fast and you couldn't push them off the beaches... I would think that only one squad being able to spawn at the beach with no supplies would be a pretty light defense against incoming APCs.

Celestial1 wrote:Wouldn't the AAVP make short work of the beach forts? Especially with no crates/ammo, you're gonna get one or two shots with a rifle AT on it as Russia, if you're lucky enough to even hit it in the water. AAVP can light the hell up out of that thing, and then the nearest reinforcement wave would probably be still on the way by truck.

I sure don't have the experience with really playing the map to see how it really works out but it sounded like the biggest problem was the bleed was too fast and you couldn't push them off the beaches... I would think that only one squad being able to spawn at the beach with no supplies would be a pretty light defense against incoming APCs.

.97 explained the hell on this map and how spawning on first flag can be bad. Even for a decent USMC team.

Plus it's easy to take a AAV out.... The Russian APC's can go in water IIRC, so have one hide good and b00m.

But, the fact that the russians get like 10 spawn points on the map is almost unfair. Since the USMC has to take a while to get to EB. IIRC the ruskies can spawn at Derevenya? (The town flag)

I would not mind having the Russians spawn at Derevenya, but only allow like 10 players. And no supply crate there. They had to get it from chopper/supply trux.

Just my 2 cents.

matty1053 wrote:.97 explained the hell on this map and how spawning on first flag can be bad. Even for a decent USMC team.

Fair enough, I wasn't there for it, but I can't help thinking there were better ways to solve it.
I would think a limited rally that lets one squad spawn on the beach, with no crate, and the flags capped could have been manageable, especially if you tweak the bleed so that the USMC doesn't really have to rush their assault and get slaughtered in the process.

Plus it's easy to take a AAV out.... The Russian APC's can go in water IIRC, so have one hide good and b00m.

Oh, that's something I didn't really think about... That'd probably explain a lot of the complaints if that was the case.

What about delaying their spawn?

But, the fact that the russians get like 10 spawn points on the map is almost unfair. Since the USMC has to take a while to get to EB. IIRC the ruskies can spawn at Derevenya? (The town flag)

When I loaded the map on local, there were no spawns at either Derevenya or East Beach. The nearest spawn was in South Base.

There were like 6 spawns at North/South Base, and then the one at the compound to the east of West Beach. I dunno, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. The only benefit is getting to the AA base or I think a Logi spawns out there, so you could get some FOBs up for the North/South Base flags.

Maybe I'm just a masochist, but I really want to see this be a map where the Russians have a starting territory advantage and the USMC has overwhelming firepower to try and take it.

In my opinion the russians got overnerfed with the release of 0.9, on this map. The original setup was imbalanced, but a good US rollout, even against a good russian team could usually end in a cap. The BTR delays on spawn and no nearby logistics ment that the russians were without reinforcements for 5-10 minutes, depending on their building priorities and ambushed on derevenya bridge.

The old possible ways to take east beach as US in my opinion weren't that complicated, they just took some timing, and communication, not even that much skill. Instead of flanking around with all the infantry in choppers and wasting their time walking and slugging it out with russian infantry trying to hold off until their FOBs get up, the US should have been going straight to the beach except for 1 inf squad, and an ambush squad to the village, or hills above. As long as the team waited for the AAV7s to get into range (well before russian BTRs, or logistics), they could cover a beach landing by boat and chopper by easily taking out the AAA, or a boat HATing it. As the AAV7s dump grenades on the beach fort, two boats could easily drop on the east side along with hueys as the AAV7s keep the AAA dead. From there it was an even fight on the rest of the map.

To let the average US pubby team have a chance, but still keep it interesting and not another rush for the center AAS map, the russians could get a spawn either near or on the beach but no AAA. They could make the choice whether to try to hold off an overwhelming US force, or to just spawn farther back and create a foothold.

Played this on the Infantry layer on TG yesterday, and boy does it look like it sucks for the US team. As Russia, we had a Logi (I think the one from North/South base) at Derevnya and building FOBs while the USMC were still making their way out of East Beach. By the time they were pushing Derevnya, one of our SLs had built 5 FOBs just northwest of Derevnya, and the US didn't grey us out the entire round. The server was also only around 40-50 players for most of the round, too.

Not so hot. Gotta give the USMC some advantage on that 16 layer, the Russians get a huge advantage with the FOBs. Osprey couldn't get the USMC crates fast enough before the Russians could find them and drop them with their 5 spawns around the town.

If the Russians can get FOBs up that quickly on the other layers, that truck that spawns in North/South bases should probably be removed.

Good point. Without CAS, the US loses any advantage they had. Maybe the infantry layer should start the US with a flag or a main base on land (kind of like Vadso City). The US will still have their carrier for helo support, etc. but might help balance things on the infantry layer.

CAS isnt as big of a gamebreaker as you think. The US small arms are much better than the Russki ones, and imo all the layers are pretty balanced because of that. One of the most fun maps to play as Blufor. Opfor is just boring though.

L4gi wrote:CAS isnt as big of a gamebreaker as you think. The US small arms are much better than the Russki ones, and imo all the layers are pretty balanced because of that. One of the most fun maps to play as Blufor. Opfor is just boring though.

Well, I agree on the CAS (IMO the AAVP would be the lynchpin of the USMC assault has on the other layers) but disagree on the benefit of the standard infantry rifles being that large of a benefit.

A big problem with the East Beach/Derevnya flag layout is that USMC infantry has to push down a relatively open hill, with sparse tree cover. It's very difficult to advance, especially when the Russians have a FOB in Derevnya with an HMG up. It's not much of a contest, we ripped down 2 or so USMC squads before they could cross the bridge and they didn't really have the ability to fight back.
I'm sure better teamwork on the USMC side would have made it less of a slaughter (they had mortars firing at us, but apparently not the coordination to land them on the important parts and no attempt at smoking up Derevnya), but it's definitely a real struggle to break out of East Beach for them.

I think breaking the rules of the "infantry" layer and giving the USMC a support asset (Light CAS? One APC?) might be in order to shift the balance. I'm not against the spawn on land, but I don't think it solves the problem completely.

It is necessary to remove the russian helicopter spawn delay(because russians take a lot of time to get to balltefield at start of the round) and give them BMP2M/BMP3, or just add tunguska instead of strela-10.

Did they not just sit on the hill SE of derevnya and shoot back? That his has great overwatch over the flag, and its big enough that you can spread out, and I'm sure with 1, maybe 2 sqyads covering you could boat or water drop a squad at the bridge to hold it with the cover from above. But then again that would take coordination and communication between SLs.

chrisweb89 wrote:Did they not just sit on the hill SE of derevnya and shoot back? That his has great overwatch over the flag, and its big enough that you can spread out, and I'm sure with 1, maybe 2 sqyads covering you could boat or water drop a squad at the bridge to hold it with the cover from above. But then again that would take coordination and communication between SLs.

Yeah, they tried to fire down on us for a while, but we had the advantage of a FOB in the town so we had HMGs pointed at the hilltop.
They definitely didn't have the coordination to pull that assault off. I don't doubt that it would be possible with a coordinated US team (even just better coordination with mortars would have helped them out a ton), but I think even then it'd be running through a grinder.

What's with the flag-cap order on this map? Had a round of it yesterday after the new update, the Russians' first flag was East Beach and the US' the Sub Pen and Cargo area. Most players on the Russian side realised this too late and East Beach remained neutral for a good 30 mins. If EB is going to be the first Russian flag, why have spawnpoints on the docks but not there?