Project Reality Forums

Jabal al Burj has balance issues, and let me explain how.

There are two flag layers: East Beach -> West Beach -> Dam -> Jabal -> North Bridge and East Beach -> South Bridge -> Dam -> Jabal -> North Bridge. Both of these layers heavily favour the USMC and more often than not the entire match is just a stalemate between dam and Jabal, while nearly every other match is the USMC capturing Jabal, then the rest of the match fought over it. I think this makes for rather uninteresting rounds, and something that is more fun for the USMC.

Here is why the USMC have a large advantage. Right at the start of the match the USMC will have men on Dam, and the other first two flags because they have helicopters. The MEC will always capture just Jabal at the start of the match. The MEC have transport trucks which are very, very slow and and the super undergunned MTLBs so they really have no chance of stopping this from happening. After this there is little chance of capturing Dam. There are almost no viable places for FOBs to attack the dam, coming in from the east you have to get over the central mountain, which is tiring to climb and probably occupied by americans, its a useful strategic point and they have helicopters tot get there. You can also try from the east low down, but it should be rather obvious walking on a low road below enemy forces with no cover is a rather poor idea. Attacking from the west is nearly as hard, building a fob anywhere close is impossible, and you have to then climb a mountain and fight through mountainous terrain to get the dam. Attacking from the south or north is impossible as a DoD and the river are on either side. In general there are few viable ways to attack the dam. However in the marines favour attacking Jabal is far easier. There is a huge piece of land east of Jabal that is always unguarded because the MEC just dont have the man power to sit off of flags. This is the perfect place to put a FOB and walking down to Jabal with little resistance is common. Attacking from the south is also viable as the marines can easily make a fob under south bridge, a stones throw from both the DoD and Jabal. This is a pretty obvious imbalance when the flag the MEC are relegated to is easy to attack, and the USMC one is impossible. Further still the MEC get stuck on the north side of the river if they lose their FOBs in the south, which isnt hard considering lacking choppers and many places to build FOBs thanks to the relative smallness of the map (its a 2K chopped in half), the dominance of the CAS hueys over logis and, and challenging terrain.

So when the marines have a huge strategic advantage why is it that they also are way better equipped? Having helicopters on a map with hard terrain is ridiculously useful, CAS only exacerbates this. MEC armour advantage is there, but only by a small margin. Sure the BMP-3 is a great vehicle but the AAVPs are way better than everything else the MEC have.

Here is how I would fix Jabal

1) Decrease USMC strategic advantage. There should only be one flag layer. That should be East Beach -> Dam + South Bridge -> Jabal -> North Bridge. Here is why this would improve the map. Firstly, the west beach flag is garbage, its in a useless spot and it makes the flag order weird, removing it improves the flow of the map. Now making Dam and SOuth Bridge active at the same time would make it much harder for the USMC to attack and defend at once. The MEC would capture Jabal as usual, and the MArines would get their first three. Then, they would be required to cap Jabal to advance, all the while defending both South Bridge and Dam. This would divide their forces to a much greater degree, while the MEC would only have to worry about defending one flag, and would only be required to take 1. Then if the MEC take either the DAm or Bridge they at least have a foothold to then to try and attack the other.

2) Decrease USMC tactical advantage. Helicopters are too great of an advantage. a Single Mi-28 Hip would make logistics far more feasible for the MEC as they would be able to put FOBs up much easier. If the intention is to have the USMC get everything but Jabal initially then a delayed spawn would be fine.

3) Introduce a new heavy layer, as the same assets have been on every Jabal layer for years now.

USMC
AH-1Z Cobra x1 - Loadout: 4 Hydra rocket pods, 20mm Cannon
M1A1 Abrams x2
LAV-25 x2
UH-1 Huey x3
Logistics Truck x1
RHIB x1

MEC
Mi-35 Hind x1 - Loadout: 4 S-8 rocket pods, 12.7mm Turret
Mi-28 Hip x1
T-72 x2
BMP-2 x2 - Loadout: 30mm Cannon
Logistics Truck x2
Transport Truck x3

I think tank combat would be quite interesting on Jabal, it would give the MEC the option to attempt to just muscle their way into dam with firepower and armour. More firepower would also deny the hueys the freedom to fly all over the map, which is a good thing. With neither helo equipped with ASMs they are a dangerous threat to infantry and armour, but not a omnipotent presence that paralyzes armour movement. The Hind is perfect for Jabal as inf transport is needed, and some firepower is appreciated too. the LAV's speed would almost be quite fun to use on this map.

I always thought this map was **** because the dam makes no sense at all, when theres a lot of potential with this static, but at least this would make it more playable

How about USMC having to cap both beach flags at first and then have to capture dam + south bridge? This would force the USMC to split their initial assault and allows less people to go straight for dam.

the different vehicle layer is an intresting idea.

40mm has a good point.

It's the same thing every round. It seems like a secondary Kashan....

Infantry rush the Second Flag.



I remember on Jabal. We had like 2 Squads to dam, and 2 to go Jabal.... the outskirts of Jabal. (The Suburbs). Then we had both AAV's head to Jabal to kill their amour... well it worked extremely great killing about 95% of their team within 10 minutes.

BUT, we forgot to cap EB.
Everyone was like....

WE NEED SOMEONE TO CAP EB!!!!
So, only 2 guys capped EB. Then, we just killed the MEC the rest of the game.
We won like 350-0.... with Kills like 200 and deaths just below 100.


I think, maybe that.... in order to get certain assets.... like AAV's you have to cap EB.

And Tank warfare would be pretty odd on that map.


I think the map needs a general update. Maybe have another city at like the M9 area... idk.

Every time I play Jabal the MEC wins by a LOT. All they have to do is rush west beach and build a tow and its pretty much game. Its almost boring lol.

I like Jabal Al Burj in early versions of PR, but now(in todays PR) I think there is lack of tactics, lack of space to do maneuvers at Jabal. Its always the same gameplay at this map over and over again. Its boring. There is no room, no tactical space for 100ppl.
Jabal and especially Qwai are very old maps and not fit to new reality of PR

Wheres_my_chili wrote:Every time I play Jabal the MEC wins by a LOT. All they have to do is rush west beach and build a tow and its pretty much game. Its almost boring lol.

I dont really get this, can you explain how? The CAS hueys should make short work of a west beach FOB, and its directly below the FOBs that the USMC will put up at Dam making it easy to shoot down on for infantry.

Between the gopher, manpads, and the deployables, airpower is never really an issue for us. Besides, if the whole team is on the flag and we're properly spread out in foxholes then the cas is really just an annoyance more than anything.

So I did what Chili did yesterday and encouraged our entire team to rush west beach on the flag layer that includes it. The americans were a bit slow to get out of base and they had absolutely zero chance because of it. Assets were built at west beach and the entire game they couldnt even begin to get a foothold on that flag. It was a terrible match.

The flag layer where west beach isnt included of course, this is the layer that favours the americans because they can get to dam before the Mec and confine them to Jabal.

NOt only does hte flag order with west beach make little sense, but its a really bad place to fight over as evidenced by the last round I had on Jabal. I feel it should just be removed entirely as a flag and the only layer should be: East Beach -> Dam + South Bridge -> Jabal Al Burj -> North Bridge

I totally agree with OP and that basically USMC are OP in this map

Seriously. There's basically only one option for MEC to stop the chopper rush to dam and it asks for coordinated play from mech inf or apc + inf working together and quickly rushing to the lower part of the dam (I haven't calculated the time it takes, but IMHO chopper will get there first), infantry dismounting and making their way up CQB through the interior and 2 MLTB's covering the dam from new heli approaches. If done fast/coordinated enough, it can change the game. But it's not as easy to do this and to cap the dam flag as MEC, as it is with USMC.

A quick flight with chopper, you get the high ground, quick fobs around the dam, a TOW here and there, and we're done. It's so easy to get supplies as USMC that it's even not funny anymore for the MEC who supply themselves with a slow *** logy, not laser fast chopper that can dodge shit and fly unseen through the specific terrain of this map.

And if the bridge gets blown especially when the city is in defense, MEC are screwed. One man can change the course of battle here (the bridge blowing guy). It's almost impossible to set up combat bridges because as a logy that is slowly driving backwards on such a hot spot as the bridge, it's hard to stay alive long enough to lay down the bridge (and/or survive). And if no bridge, no possibility to reinforce the city well enough to defend it from oncoming onslaught (because of the "far away" USMC FOBs East and South from the city - pretty far to be found and destroyed (usually), but close enough to storm the city).

How to fix the problem:

IMHO, there are two ways:
a) change of assets for one or both sides,
b) change it to that some flags (dam, for example) are precapped by MEC so they obviously doesn't have to cap them in the beginning (as they're definitely the slower team - USMC should be on those flags before)
c) both a) and b)

I like this "fix" as it's not that drastic in changing the gameplay of this map. Maybe less choppers (that attack huey seems unnecessary on this small map, although it gives a certain feel to this map, that for sure), maybe some more potent APC/IFV for MEC at the start of the round (as they have only 2 MLTB's right now). Something like that.

But, yeah, I have no idea how to fix the "bridge problem". Because once it's gone it's so hard to put it back up as it takes effort (that usually isn't there; so round potentially "spoiled" for one team).

It worked fine before the Aas paths, capture East and West beach first -> dam -> South Bridge -> jabal -> North bridge ( game over)

Maybe a river crossing point that is wadable by trucks would help out MEC s initial deployment, directly south of MEC main perhaps?
Or a forward spawn point at round start to counter the choppers?

Although many people don't like it, I love Jabal! Might be a little hard for US CAS but playing as armoured (USMC or MEC) is great! Also a good map for infantry

Daxt2 wrote:Although many people don't like it, I love Jabal! Might be a little hard for US CAS but playing as armoured (USMC or MEC) is great! Also a good map for infantry

You got that right.


But, honestly.... CAS is OP on that map.

One CAS huey should be good. Not 2.

But the MEC, if the bridge is demolished, almost a GG for em.

matty1053 wrote:You got that right.


But, honestly.... CAS is OP on that map.

One CAS huey should be good. Not 2.

But the MEC, if the bridge is demolished, almost a GG for em.

CAS on Jabal was OP since the dawn of time.

Brainlaag wrote:CAS on Jabal was OP since the dawn of time.

And Huey has been known to be flying tank(in-game) since the dawn of time.

Takes way more than AA missile and 14.5mm guns to shoot them down for some reason.

I have shot a huey with LAT before and it didn't go down.

for assets i think Tanks are to much for this map, even apcs have a bad time to move on the hills around the bridge.

i also don't like the BMP3 on this map because he can one hit kill all USMC APCs, he should be swapped for a BMP-2 and remove one cas huey to the USMC so we will have a more fair APC combat and MEC still can put down choppers with the BMP-2 the only ting is mec will lost one of they only apc witch have thermals but they still got quantity and mobility because they have to across a freaking sea to get to the combat

also there is a ninja DOD on the sea you dont see on the map and if you in you cannot out because the MTLB is a turtle and cant turn around and you cant go back backwards because he is to dam slower even more on the water, so please i just ask: Remove this unnecessary DOD or Show on the map.

I don't want to sound like a bother but it seem as though most of the people in this thread and others that I talk to seem to agree that Jabal really needs balancing and revamping to be up to the standards of contemporary pr.

Is anything going to come of Jabal in the near future? It hasnt changed since I posted this thread as far as I can tell.

To revamp it in any other way than assets is very difficult as it doesn't have its editor folder. So it would need new roads, colormaps, detailmaps, lightmaps, etc. Its a lot of work when you might as well spend the time making a new maps

That being said how would these changes be

*non destroyable bridges
AAS64
*MEC gopher replaced with Shilka(one of if not the best AAV ingame), no delay
*MEC transport helicopter

Nice and can't see any downsides, but leave the MEC trans trucks as I fear the helicopter wouldn't last too long.