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Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-21 06:55
by lukeviper248
Hello,
Recently we have had a lot complaints about SLs not doing their job or just not getting into the game as much as they used to. New players are grabbing kits and running around like their hair is on fire, and tactical gameplay as we know it is not around. After spending 6 months with a fire department, I have learned a way to make PR leadership better. In the fire service it is called incident command and I believe it could be a common solution to a common problem. Treat the game like it was a fire scene. This is what happens at fires, the first arriving unit either assumes command or passes command to the next unit. Alot of factors play into taking command, but for short it is all about circumstances. If the officer on the unit takes command, he is now in charge of everybody that arrives on scene and is in charge of calling in for additional alarms and specialty resources/units. Now we all know the fire service has different apparatuses for different jobs, you have your Ladder trucks, your engine companies, rescue, haz-mat, tanker. All of them have a job, but one of the most important is water supply to the first due engine company, that is where a tanker or another engine comes in. So the tanker would roll from quarters to the fire, supply water, then go get more and bring it back. When other units arrive, depending on their specialty they are put to use, like ladder company gets ladder work, etc. Lets bring this to PR, lets say an infantry squad rolls up in a hummve with hostiles engaging them from a 4 story building. He returns fire, then gets on the radio and starts calling in other squads and assets. This i where a commander would play in, the commander would be like 911 dispatch, once he gets the call,he would send him a full assignment for the situation which would be another inf squad, supply, air support. The commander coordinates these efforts with all other SLs, to try to eliminate the problem. This template would is easy to follow and pretty universal. I believe it could help SLs work more together and make the game more enjoyable. It could also teach the new guys a few things. What we could do to help newbies, is to create assignments for different squads. Like for instance infantry, their assignments could include assaulting, room clearing, cache destruction, defensive operations, suppressive fire, search for downed squad members, etc. Listing these assignments for each squad in the game could help new players understand what they are doing when they are a part of that kind of squad. Using an incident command system, it simplifies things, and makes interoperbility a lot easier.
Have a good night,
Luke
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-21 07:30
by Wicca
lukeviper248 wrote:Hello,
Recently we have had a lot complaints about SLs not doing their job or just not getting into the game as much as they used to. New players are grabbing kits and running around like their hair is on fire, and tactical gameplay as we know it is not around.
After spending 6 months with a fire department, I have learned a way to make PR leadership better. In the fire service it is called incident command and I believe it could be a common solution to a common problem.
Treat the game like it was a fire scene.
This is what happens at fires, the first arriving unit either assumes command or passes command to the next unit.
Alot of factors play into taking command, but for short it is all about circumstances. If the officer on the unit takes command, he is now in charge of everybody that arrives on scene and is in charge of calling in for additional alarms and specialty resources/units.
Now we all know the fire service has different apparatuses for different jobs, you have your Ladder trucks, your engine companies, rescue, haz-mat, tanker. All of them have a job, but one of the most important is water supply to the first due engine company, that is where a tanker or another engine comes in.
So the tanker would roll from quarters to the fire, supply water, then go get more and bring it back. When other units arrive, depending on their specialty they are put to use, like ladder company gets ladder work, etc.
Lets bring this to PR, lets say an infantry squad rolls up in a hummve with hostiles engaging them from a 4 story building. He returns fire, then gets on the radio and starts calling in other squads and assets. This i where a commander would play in, the commander would be like 911 dispatch, once he gets the call,he would send him a full assignment for the situation which would be another inf squad, supply, air support.
The commander coordinates these efforts with all other SLs, to try to eliminate the problem.
This template would is easy to follow and pretty universal. I believe it could help SLs work more together and make the game more enjoyable. It could also teach the new guys a few things. What we could do to help newbies, is to create assignments for different squads. Like for instance infantry, their assignments could include assaulting, room clearing, cache destruction, defensive operations, suppressive fire, search for downed squad members, etc.
Listing these assignments for each squad in the game could help new players understand what they are doing when they are a part of that kind of squad. Using an incident command system, it simplifies things, and makes interoperbility a lot easier.
Have a good night,
Luke
There, much more readable

Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-21 08:22
by Jolly
LOL, Wicca u r definitely a teacher.
But dude, ur experiences from Fire department might works. but I doubt people will do exactly u said.
Experience is the key.
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-21 17:18
by Mikemonster
The thing you forget is that in the fire department you are working alongside professionals, who have been specially selected and then specially trained to use the formwork you described.
In PR anything complex breaks down because we try to do it faster than in real life, without any prior practise, with people we do not know, of skills that vary from quite good to very good to terrible (at getting something done).
This may be of more use in a clan forum, one that aims for 'realism' in it's tactics.
How things usually work in PR is there are a few great players leading a few other good players, with all the other players fitting in around (and sometimes ahead and behind). There is teamwork but nowhere near as much as most people believe. Although people do generally work for the good of the team, so the teams do often work together. But not usually deliberately. More as a side-effect of their own personal/small team (squad) efforts.
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-21 18:41
by obpmgmua
I think I know why there are no good SL's. They're playing vanilla until the shutdown. Same with myself. Why play PR when PR2 will pick up here we left off, but there's no replacement for Battlefield 2, now or ever.
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-21 18:50
by Gracler
Keeping it as simple as possible when leading a public squad is the key to success in my experience.
A long briefing will backfire most of the time, because some people won't hear it properly or won't understand it or they won't remember it in the heat of battle.
Talk a lot to keep the attention of the players, and use there names, and avoid saying "someone" to your squad.
If a person in your squad is doing the opposite of what he is told or he is not communicating let him know and if he still isn't complying then get rid of the dead weight with a kick. Letting a rogue stay in your squad might spread to others and won't make you look like a strong leader.
If your squad is really small like 3-4 people then you could incorporate some kind of pre-planned attack but anything bigger than that and it won't be any great success.
Keep the entire squad together whenever possible or split the squad in two if you got a friend in the squad to lead the 2nd half.
If you receive an order from a commander that you don't trust you have to validate the order and not blindly follow it. Camping out of the range of any flags and ignoring a defend order is always a bad idea though.
obpmgmua wrote:I think I know why there are no good SL's. They're playing vanilla until the shutdown. Same with myself. Why play PR when PR2 will pick up here we left off, but there's no replacement for Battlefield 2, now or ever.
Popular games always get revived by the fans in one way or another. I bet that BF2 and BF2142 will be revived by mods eventually if the demand is there. If EA decide to fight back on people giving CPR to there "left for dead" game then they deserve to go bankrupt.
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-22 02:54
by obpmgmua
@gracier
I have to disagree with you. Look at renegade X it took them 10 years to release it and by then most of the original playerbase never cameback. Myself included. I played it once or twice, but it wasn't the same as 10 years ago. Games evolved and people moved on. Renegade X is too fast and too arena like for modern day FPS tastes. And the devs tried to 'fix' the game to suit their tastes and that turned alot of people off.
Say 10 years from now, Battlefield X is released for free by a small group of devs. It's immediately noticeable that it's a carbon copy of BF2, save for a few changes here and there. Snipers No longer get claymores, Engineer now has a Rifle, Shotguns are secondary weapons, etc etc. It's gonna turn alot of people off, because you can't just lift the gameplay mechanics from an old game and change key features to suit your tastes. It just doesn't work like that. Games need to evolve aswell.
I'm gonna quote my self from the renegade X forums
.......yadda............yadda............yadda......
I appreciate the time and effort that went into this game, but already the player base is dying off. I think you would have more success if you copied some of call of duty's gameplay mechanics to appeal to a broader audience. But still keep the renegade feel of the game.
And then I got banned for comparing their hardwork to cod.
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-22 03:50
by lukeviper248
Well it could be a good template for commander and squad leaders, if the squad leaders used it to call in resources, it could be a good help, the squad leaders would have to have some sort of handle on their squad though
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-22 04:05
by USMC_Toney
We need players to understand squad leading is a vital role for the team. Just today on muttrah city had some really terrible squad leaders spawning in making a squad called "**** penis" or "***** club" and all they were doing the whole round was clowning each squad member in every key pad..... If this is what project reality is turning to I won't be playing much longer.
Posted: 2014-05-22 04:44
by Portable.Cougar
I consider myself to be a half way decent Squad Leader. With that, I try and teach or relay to new people how to be better at the job most times I play.
I have written about this topic more times than I can count. And with that I will keep this short.
Squad Leading is like lone wolfing with seven other people. You know how to keep yourself alive, just do the same thing as a leader.
Take the same routes, use the same tactics, and shoot the same way. Just talk about why your doing it while you are doing it.
Convey those thoughts vocally to your squad rather than keep them to yourself. This will keep them informed and keep you having fun.
Remember it's a game and fun should be priority one.
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-22 07:55
by Gracler
@obpmgmua
The remake of Battlefield is going to be called PR2 and yes it may take 8-10 years before it is complete, but If you want to continue playing Battlefield 2 a group of people is already on the case and plan to restart BF2 on day one of the shutdown of Gamespy. There is a huge difference on a remake and a revive.
The people who complain the most about bad squad leaders forget that it just takes one click and some basic rules to follow like Portable.Cougar mentions to get things back on track.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Posted: 2014-05-22 21:27
by Cavazos
You just need vocal leaders to be more abundant in the game. An incident report won't change the number of quality leaders available.
Sent from my XT1028 using Tapatalk
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-22 21:35
by Cassius
New players in general do not have much of a handle on how to play PR. A lot of players whom came to PR a couple of years ago either came from a military background or had an interest in combined arms sims such as operation flashpoint (has it really been that long already) and of course Arma etc. .
I would propose putting out a tactics and procedures guide in the same fashion and format as the manual, that gives new players but veterans as well a handle on how to play the game.
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-23 04:21
by OldGoat5
The fire fighting thing does work with one small modification, if you are closest to an objective but there are other more experienced squad leaders nearby, work with them on how your squad can assist their attack/etc. You can still be managing the fight by calling in mortar support and helping their flanks, but you can let the more experienced squadron take the attack. Wait just kidding that is what you were talking about anyways, managing it, so yes i can say that does work quite well in my experience.
Re: Fixing new SL problems
Posted: 2014-05-23 07:07
by MikeDude
Portable.Cougar wrote:I consider myself to be a half way decent Squad Leader. With that, I try and teach or relay to new people how to be better at the job most times I play.
I have written about this topic more times than I can count. And with that I will keep this short.
Squad Leading is like lone wolfing with seven other people. You know how to keep yourself alive, just do the same thing as a leader.
Take the same routes, use the same tactics, and shoot the same way. Just talk about why your doing it while you are doing it.
Convey those thoughts vocally to your squad rather than keep them to yourself. This will keep them informed and keep you having fun.
Remember it's a game and fun should be priority one.
Agreed, the only problem here is. I never see you playing anymore
Used to like being in your squad on TG.
Posted: 2014-05-23 15:36
by Portable.Cougar
I work on the road 4/5 days a week. When I'm home on the weekends I try to get a round or two in. If you see me on say Hello and I will make you a spot.