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Added 'Anti Human Shield' function, Insurgent Collaborators get punished if they die within 10m of armed insurgents.

Anti human shield?

So insurgent didn't take cover in house of civis IRL?
Nervous calm grips Fallujah, but clashes nearby - Story - World - 3 News
"Sheik Ahmed Abu Risha, a powerful Anbar tribal leader who heads the Sahwa, told the AP on Friday that he believes he has enough fighters and weapons, some supplied by the Iraqi army, to confront the al-Qaida militants.
He alleged that some of the militants have been using civilians as human shields, making his men reluctant to try to confront them head-on because of concerns about civilian casualties."

Fixed BluFor soldiers getting punished when an bleeding insurgent drops his kit.

^This should not be there.
Troops: Strict war rules slow Marjah offensive | Army Times | armytimes.com
""I understand the reason behind it, but it's so hard to fight a war like this," said Marine Lance Cpl. Travis Anderson, 20, of Altoona, Iowa. "They're using our rules of engagement against us," he said, adding that his platoon had repeatedly seen men drop their guns into ditches and walk away to blend in with civilians."

They do blend in with civilians IRL.
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Those two "fix" made INS less realistic and less fun(less fun for civi; more fun for triggerhappy apc who guns down anything that moves). And neither is big issue if one has a breacher kit in squad.

Civi has always been my go to class when BluFor uses aimbot(close range running then sudden stop and you get headshotted, even through bushes); because they can't see difference in color of typical civi clothing(of medic) since they see only solid colours for players.

Now it's a lot harder to force BluFor to learn target identification if they ever want intel.

Previous civi rules offered a unique style of play to insurgency; it was healthy change from the usual AAS.
Before, some retard BluFor squads don't have breachers because all of them complain how they can't win against INS without magnifying optics(even though blufor weapons are overpowered in every form of AR15; only bad one is L85). Now there is no such issue.

Now, not only was Breacher kit buffed(with magnifying optics) so it's better than 90% of insurgent kit at medium range or above, civi got nerfed even more. I know Devs always had a BluFor bias but this is a little too much/obvious?
Now it's not as fun because you can't hide a medic among civi blob to ambush anyone trying to arrest civi by himself with restrainers. And it's even easier for BluFor to get intel just by minor wounding to INS because very few people even play as medic, added to the fact that ins has poor logistics(typical idiots drive supply technical out of base like taxi and leave it in middle of nowhere).

I agree with your first point about the civi's within a 10 metre radius but i disagree about the civi dropping his kit when bleeding. It was incredibly frustrating that you get punished for someone exploiting a rule. Thank fully not many people knew about it and so it didn't happen often.

Yes, the Kit-dropping-change is very welcome, but I feel the Anti-human-shield one isn't. As I said in the Changelog thread, let's play a few rounds with the new rules, but I feel that it really will detract from the uniqueness of Insurgency. To be honest, I would even vote for making target identification even more important than it is/was. E.g. give the civilians more options, make people actually want to play civilian.

I'm a little afraid of what you have done to the civi. I know these 'fixes' were made to prevent exploiters, but now the civi is just getting more and more useless. I feel that now with the huge hassle of having to spawn, drop your kit, wait 2 minutes, never touch any kit, stay away from empty vehicles, and completely avoid anyone with a gun like they have small pox will just mean that Blufor will never have to worry about losing intel points. And even though these are going to prevent exploiting, I feel that it will also stop Blufor from having to worry about killing civis. I really hope that if this happens to make Blufor a lot more OP, that the devs will consider reverting it back to at least the 1.1.6 state. Sorry for the rant, but I just wanted to share my opinion.

camo_jnr_jnr wrote: It was incredibly frustrating that you get punished for someone exploiting a rule. Thank fully not many people knew about it and so it didn't happen often.

That's BluFor's problem.

If they can't make sure someone is dead even with superior weaponry...why should INS be punished for it?

If BluFor wanted to prevent "exploit" then they should have one-shotted INS with shotgun/Marksman/Sniper rifle/grenades/apc/ifv/mortars/LAT/HAT/AA(yes that is a LONG list, and I am probably still missing something) or mow them down with MG/AR, or get close enough and make sure they are dead(which leads to INS having some option for closer range combat, always a plus for insurgency mode) or arrested. Really some insurgents can be killed in as low as two shots from M16(if not killed; he will bleed out before 2 minutes are up).

Martyring by dropping kit after getting shot is no where near common for good reason.

You should get punished for leaving someone alive but bleeding to death; that's unethical, and that's something BluFor should care about if they ever wanted decent opinion from the locals.

The collaborator changes are brand new - and the radius, for example, is open to tweaking. 10m was decided upon to hopefully not allow the blufor to mow down everyone, while preventing collaborators from jumping in front of active fire on insurgents... or having insurgents shooting between the legs of collaborators (which I have done on several occasions).

I'm personally (as a player) against the 2-minute ROE, I think that 60 seconds was more than enough when combined with the new, less exploitable collaborator, but I guess we'll see how it turns out in gameplay.

[R-CON]Psyrus wrote:The collaborator changes are brand new - and the radius, for example, is open to tweaking. 10m was decided upon to hopefully not allow the blufor to mow down everyone, while preventing collaborators from jumping in front of active fire on insurgents... or having insurgents shooting between the legs of collaborators (which I have done on several occasions).

I'm personally (as a player) against the 2-minute ROE, I think that 60 seconds was more than enough when combined with the new, less exploitable collaborator, but I guess we'll see how it turns out in gameplay.

Bad BluFor will mow down anyone regardless of what rule there is(because he does not even know the rules).

Bullets move a lot faster than people; if BluFor can't even see what they are shooting at clearly yet are still shooting/tunnelvision hard, it's their fault for killing Civis.

And running into BluFor fire still isn't impossible if bullets are flying a relatively horizontal path.

Remember that we don't have nearly as many players in PR as they have civilians(or anyone else) IRL; civis in PR needs to have some more ability to martyr.

ComradeHX wrote:Bad BluFor will mow down anyone regardless of what rule there is(because he does not even know the rules).

Bullets move a lot faster than people; if BluFor can't even see what they are shooting at clearly yet are still shooting/tunnelvision hard, it's their fault for killing Civis.

And running into BluFor fire still isn't impossible if bullets are flying a relatively horizontal path.

Remember that we don't have nearly as many players in PR as they have civilians(or anyone else) IRL; civis in PR needs to have some more ability to martyr.

I don't disagree, and in fact I'd say I'm more on your side than you think (1, 2), but as the one who put forth the idea for the current implementation of the anti-griefing code, it's because I'd like to see martyrs happening for legitimate reasons, not for gaming the system.

Once the kinks have been worked out, giving the collaborators a more solid role is an important next step, at least in my opinion.

That being said, I don't think that the blufor should automatically lose the game due to one idiot on the team, unless we modify the ROE script to temp-ban people who kill too many in a round

'[R-CON wrote:Psyrus;2008202']I don't disagree, and in fact I'd say I'm more on your side than you think (1, 2), but as the one who put forth the idea for the current implementation of the anti-griefing code, it's because I'd like to see martyrs happening for legitimate reasons, not for gaming the system.

Once the kinks have been worked out, giving the collaborators a more solid role is an important next step, at least in my opinion.

That being said, I don't think that the blufor should automatically lose the game due to one idiot on the team, unless we modify the ROE script to temp-ban people who kill too many in a round

Don't we already have hilarious execution of BluFor if he kills 4 civi within two minutes?

This is stupid, the pre 1.1 feature was the best IMO. The Binoc batallions have been rendered useless and the INS have no chance of winning now.

Just had a round in fallujah when I got killed for helping insurgency(well after two minutes of dropping kit) even when no allies were within 10m(died 5s ago).

Buggy as hell, this change is.

Do you really get executed for killing too many civilians? Can someone explain the specifics of this rule to me?

fatalsushi83 wrote:Do you really get executed for killing too many civilians? Can someone explain the specifics of this rule to me?

IIRC if someone kills 4(or 5-6?) civi within 2 minutes, he gets executed automatically.

It happened in Marlin INS, when I was running with a civi squad, some "special" BluFor gunner(also one-manning the French bus) of 50cal decided to mow down all of us...when he killed most of us, he died and the french bus was left empty; we later blew it up with RKG.

Thats actually really funny ^

I like the new rule. Don't know about you guys.


Tons of people abused the drop kit shit.... THANK YOU DEVS

Wheres_my_chili wrote:Thats actually really funny ^

Ah in the old days the rule was stricted, al basrah was rather amusing when suddently the British armour raced home because it's gunner had died

No one is going to want to play civ now.

matty1053 wrote:I like the new rule. Don't know about you guys.


Tons of people abused the drop kit shit.... THANK YOU DEVS

You mean there were tons of people terribad blufor can't kill despite vastly superior firepower?

Just hit with TWO shots; that's all you needed.

ComradeHX wrote: 1. "Added 'Anti Human Shield' function, Insurgent Collaborators get punished if they die within 10m of armed insurgents."
Anti human shield?


2. "Fixed BluFor soldiers getting punished when an bleeding insurgent drops his kit."
^This should not be there.

They do blend in with civilians IRL.

1. Was this really necessary? Irregular forces exploiting bluefor RoE is part of them being irregulars. If you don't want bluefor to be careful with their fire because insurgents hide behind civilians, why was the civ introduced at all? And let's just say we keep this change, 10m definitely is too much. I'd say 3m is the absolute maximum that can be considered human shielding, anything further away means just casually walking past some friendlies gives you combatant status. hooray. Also, this makes it impossible for civs to heal insurgents, which afaik also doesn't make you a combatant (only the epipen does?).

Overall this weakens the role of the civ massively. Bluefor does not need to be careful with their fire anymore, they hardly need to fear losing intel anymore.
This is a move in the wrong direction imo, if anything, the civ should be made more important. I'd like to see the civ class from the spawn menu again to have more of them on the map, which would create more hassle for bluefor and a more realistic gamemode (because 1 civ among 49 insurgents is not much). I think more different civs right from the start would be a great addition to the gamemode. With the std/alt kit you could create different civ kits, one with a hook, binos and radio; another one with the medkit and epipens. Different clothes too, because bluefor is just looking for that guy in the white shirt, or they were before the civ class was replaced by a medic. Right now we have 8 (!) different basic insurgent kits available to anyone right from the spawnscreen without any squad requirements. While I'm all for weapons variety within irregulars, reducing that to 6 and having 2 slots for civ would give us 4 different civilians with different clothing. If players used these, bluefor would have a hard time identifying targets and possibly not steamroll the insurgents every round.


2. Good change. If you are wounded as a combatant, you die as one.

ComradeHX wrote:You mean there were tons of people terribad blufor can't kill despite vastly superior firepower?

Just hit with TWO shots; that's all you needed.

As if that's always possible. Sometimes you're in the middle of a firefight, hit a guy, hit him again right before he runs around a corner and the hit was not registered because LOLBF2NETCODE. If that guy then decides to drop his weapon he probably used to fire at you and bleed out, should you really be punished for killing a civilian?

Hurricane wrote:1. Was this really necessary? Irregular forces exploiting bluefor RoE is part of them being irregulars. If you don't want bluefor to be careful with their fire because insurgents hide behind civilians, why was the civ introduced at all? And let's just say we keep this change, 10m definitely is too much. I'd say 3m is the absolute maximum that can be considered human shielding, anything further away means just casually walking past some friendlies gives you combatant status. hooray. Also, this makes it impossible for civs to heal insurgents, which afaik also doesn't make you a combatant (only the epipen does?).

Civi can't heal anymore. It's already nerfed once.

Hurricane wrote: Overall this weakens the role of the civ massively. Bluefor does not need to be careful with their fire anymore, they hardly need to fear losing intel anymore.
This is a move in the wrong direction imo, if anything, the civ should be made more important. I'd like to see the civ class from the spawn menu again to have more of them on the map, which would create more hassle for bluefor and a more realistic gamemode (because 1 civ among 49 insurgents is not much). I think more different civs right from the start would be a great addition to the gamemode. With the std/alt kit you could create different civ kits, one with a hook, binos and radio; another one with the medkit and epipens. Different clothes too, because bluefor is just looking for that guy in the white shirt, or they were before the civ class was replaced by a medic. Right now we have 8 (!) different basic insurgent kits available to anyone right from the spawnscreen without any squad requirements. While I'm all for weapons variety within irregulars, reducing that to 6 and having 2 slots for civ would give us 4 different civilians with different clothing. If players used these, bluefor would have a hard time identifying targets and possibly not steamroll the insurgents every round.

Current diversified loadout(and clothing combination) is fine.

Hurricane wrote: 2. Good change. If you are wounded as a combatant, you die as one.

No. If you are wounded and you don't have weapon on you when you died; who is going to say you are combatant? The guy who shot you?(if he shot you; you should not be able to get away far)

Or is BluFor going to outrageously claim and anyone who got shot is a combatant and that all civi kills don't mean anything?

Have you not read anything in that link? Anyone who do not hold a weapon is a civilian(or at least considered one for ROE purposes).

Hurricane wrote: As if that's always possible. Sometimes you're in the middle of a firefight, hit a guy, hit him again right before he runs around a corner and the hit was not registered because LOLBF2NETCODE. If that guy then decides to drop his weapon he probably used to fire at you and bleed out, should you really be punished for killing a civilian?

How terrible. If you shot a guy once and he starts to bleed out; it's up to you to finish him off.
It's usually not LOLBF2NETCODE; it's LOLCODNOOBCANTAIM.

[R-DEV]Rudd wrote:Ah in the old days the rule was stricted, al basrah was rather amusing when suddently the British armour raced home because it's gunner had died

The gunner didn't "die."

He got arrested and was being transported back to base for questioning. huehuehuehuehue

In PR for all intents and purposes he is "dead" and with long respawn time.