Project Reality Forums

Hello PR Community!

At least the majority needs to care for a fair and fun PR team enviroment.
However, if many of you regulars keep stacking together in one team, fighting as 40 regular players vs 30 new players, we will lose the interest of new PR players.
Since how should they face fun and teamwork with a greenhorn team with 10 players less vs a regular team?

This individual elitarism will lead to an elitarism of the whole community and into a decreased growth or, even worse, an increased PR leave.

I see that the admins face a huge problem in solving this issue, because this stacking is happening on a consious level so the players simply do not want to join the weaker team and so the admins would have to react against the free-players wishes and decisions.

I also understand the wishes of those players to play in an organised team, where clans play with other clans. I also agree that this is the most fun thing to do. But not against a team with mostly new players and then even 10 players less.

Please understand that there is a RISK in harming the project reality community and attractivity for new players.

Here some pics, so you know this is real.





Regarding all that, I noticed that as the admins asked the regular playeres if they want to balance out for the next round, and a few agreed to that. Some refused, but some good agreed.

But this balancing should happen instantly and out of the community itself, to prevent this useless and negative games, to create a more greenhorn friendly enviroment and a growing PR community.

Please, the PR developers gave us such a great game for free. Now it is on us to keep it alive and growing. We owe them that.


Suggestions:
- Higher awareness in the community
- More interaction between admins and clans regarding balance
- Balancing should happen in the beginning of a round on spot and not pre-organising in the end of one
- Increasing match-start timer to 5:00

This is a very European problem. The US Server population is not nearly as dominated by clans as the EU one.

Right now:

imgur: the simple image sharer MeRK - not balanced

imgur: the simple image sharer NEW - balanced

imgur: the simple image sharer PRTA - balanced

It's not that bad is it? Also, a side full of clans does not always lead to auto-victory and steamroll.

I rather play one round with some imbalance than completely destroying gameplay mid-round by switching whole groups and clans around. If people join a server during the game, there is not much that can be done against people playing with their friends.

Balancing has to be done before the round starts, not during the round.

Or when you join

Ghostwolf wrote:Hello PR Community!

At least the majority needs to care for a fair and fun PR team enviroment.
However, if many of you regulars keep stacking together in one team, fighting as 40 regular players vs 30 new players, we will lose the interest of new PR players.
Since how should they face fun and teamwork with a greenhorn team with 10 players less vs a regular team?

This individual elitarism will lead to an elitarism of the whole community and into a decreased growth or, even worse, an increased PR leave.

I see that the admins face a huge problem in solving this issue, because this stacking is happening on a consious level so the players simply do not want to join the weaker team and so the admins would have to react against the free-players wishes and decisions.

I also understand the wishes of those players to play in an organised team, where clans play with other clans. I also agree that this is the most fun thing to do. But not against a team with mostly new players and then even 10 players less.

Please understand that there is a RISK in harming the project reality community and attractivity for new players.

Here some pics, so you know this is real.





Regarding all that, I noticed that as the admins asked the regular playeres if they want to balance out for the next round, and a few agreed to that. Some refused, but some good agreed.

But this balancing should happen instantly and out of the community itself, to prevent this useless and negative games, to create a more greenhorn friendly enviroment and a growing PR community.

Please, the PR developers gave us such a great game for free. Now it is on us to keep it alive and growing. We owe them that.

So which of the teams is the stacked one?

I am seriously asking by the way.
I guess the french?

edit: ah ok, no the other team. didnt see the new connections. But still this round was very even gameplay wise.
I was in that round and it was very balanced. On the other hand the next round, where Merk switched WGP to the other side, it wasnt anymore.



I agree though, imbalance can ruin the game.

Nate(GER) wrote:This is a very European problem. The US Server population is not nearly as dominated by clans as the EU one.

Right now:

imgur: the simple image sharer MeRK - not balanced

imgur: the simple image sharer NEW - balanced

imgur: the simple image sharer PRTA - balanced

It's not that bad is it? Also, a side full of clans does not always lead to auto-victory and steamroll.

I rather play one round with some imbalance than completely destroying gameplay mid-round by switching whole groups and clans around. If people join a server during the game, there is not much that can be done against people playing with their friends.

Balancing has to be done before the round starts, not during the round.

I'm going to have to agree with this. Lately I have been playing more during the European peak times and far too often have I seen a team get steamrolled to the point that the game turns into a manhunt for the last man followed by waiting for the tickets to slowly bleed out.

Usually the problem solves itself when clans and veteran players agree or are forced to being switched around the teams.

Getting clans to switch is important, especially during the seeding stage.

I miss the days when it used to be iGi vs that damned Russian spetznaz crazyskills clan it was good fun to have our clans facing off in a full public server. iGi clan members used to sometimes lead entire teams as squad leaders and even a commander, taking on a stacked team with our clanless grunts and still winning victory.

If there was no opposing clan, we'd just half our clan into each team; but it was our house and it was our job to keep it clean.

Instructions clear, needs more stacking. On my way boss.

I just made a suggestion for balance at the [NEW] forums before reading this thread:
Newcommunity.eu ? View topic - Insurgency & Balance Suggestions

Those which can't be arsed to read through it, I basically suggest that the server admins allow everyone to load into the map first, to see actually who stays to play the round and then talk to clans, switch people if needed and then use the !restart command (which will just reset the briefing timer without reloading). IMO that brings several great points with it such as:
- More time to brief / coordinate the squad / team
- Coordinate the initial deployment and the first minutes of the round
- Players have time to realize what the team is missing

By rounds which lasts 1,5-2h everyone can invest 5min to get a balanced and long round of PR.

cheers,
Curry.

clan tag = skill

This is indeed a problem with alot of new players coming in, if we all get everyone up to a similar level we might have better games.

It might also have something to do with weapons in the game, f.ex the 20 round G3 versus the 30 round French famas. It takes skill to be good with the G3, and less skill to be good with the Famas IMO.

Same thing with the C7 or any other rapid firering gun.

The biritsh L85 is very well balanced against the G3 or QBZ.

All in all, its alot of factors playing it, not just players.

BTW why serveradmins with their clans don't switch first instead of asking others? It's their server and their interest to keep it balanced and populated. But they aren't interested for some reason. Once on merk I've played 2 or 3 games vs full stacked team with 0 clans on our side, imagine that even cas and any assets squads wasn't occupied during that game and we obviously got sealclubbed, admins was online but no one cared even when I pointed it out (during briefing time at start) so i've just left.

Also i think merk has some notify message to admins when someone switches the side so why don't keep an eye for those who join and switch after figuring which team is better? All up to admins in the end, community isn't that good to regulate itself.

INS also does the job and causes more switching so why even put it in the list until devs finally realize it's shit?

Because admins pay for the server, admin the server daily, both behind the scenes and during playtime, and have to deal with kindergarden attitude everyday, and now you also want them to switch/split so they cant play with their friends?

Sorry if you find this aggresive, but since 2007 ive heard this song. Clan Clan Clan...admins admins admins.

If you want something changed, start with yourself.

So they can't switch their friends too with them? Shouldn't even start to admin in the first place if you don't see the responsibility and have "I PAY FOR IT I DO WHAT I WANT" attitude.

Switching your squad/friends is the fastest step to balance that even could be done mid-game easily without any negative effect, instead of having to ask clans and hope they agree and what if they dont? Forceswitch and maybe watch them to leave and still have the issue? After that step is taken you could look further if needed.
Use your brain.

>start with yourself.
I'm all ears on how to change things, have anything to say?
Its too rare case when people switch without admins ask so it just does not works, the issue is still here. devs even did add the !scramble or something like that but it's not used.

Say it another way, if you wanted me to start from myself instead of complaining, then how about every single game i've had last 2 weeks (not many though) was on the weak team (because people from it leaving server and we join to their spot if server is full), in every single game i've checked the playerlist and have seen well-known clans joining, and after checking the list in 2 minutes they ended up switched to the winning team? Since I did not do the same thing because I care about it, I can say that i've started from myself already, is anything changed?

From personal experience plaing in MeRK, which is server I play the most, the admins always try to balance the teams by switching clans around, but of course they have to ask the clans before switching them, they don't just get to do it cause they fee like it.
It's the players responsability to keep the teams balanced.

Hm. Iam noticed that there are somedays when one team is leads over other round by round.
But there are a tons of people who dont use tags and therefore thay looks like noobs (and thay are not). And another, its not so long time when somebody said he lead full squad of noobs and thay were best.
I think main problem is in team organisation. If everybody cooperate. Fact is battle win squadleaders.
Different point of view? Its not bad experience losing whole night round by round against (skilled) other side. This losing is fun in different way. You can improve yourself. So if somebody cry, its not fair. He is weak. He should work on himself in strength of spirit. And this is in my point of view most fun in game and in life. Life experience. So stop crying and start hard working.
I dont think so we are losing players if thay "just start" and thay stay against skilled players. What will happen for example if everybody from us should stay agains US army in real conflict? Heh I think we will die everybody very fast. Few of us will get lots of experience and thay will continue in fighting and training others. So if somebody has lots of skills he should try start leading. I tried it yesterday it was like i played game first time and totally new game. Full of frustration. But it doesnt mean iam going to give it up. And I saw on myself that good squadleader with noobs in squad can make super movement and noob squadleader (even skilled player but no skills with leading) can totally destroy skilled sq members (like me )

I haven't got much to add, as everyone has outlined all the basics.

All I'd like to say to address the OP's concerns are that this issue's one that most clans and most admins take seriously. One sided rounds are not conducive to good times on a server for anyone, least of all admins. When you see an unbalanced game, remember it takes time to sort out which clan and who specifically is switching sides. The admin need to join a few different TS channels to organise stuff and there is nothing worse than having your whole squad team-switched when you're about to launch a sweet attack.

I like Nate's suggestion of planning the team balance prior to round start, as the balance has as much to do with the map (and the rifles as Wikka pointed out) as clan players vs skilled clanless guys and less experienced clanless guys.

Cheers, Murkey.

I also like the suggestion of the 5:00 round start timer.

Those additional 1 or 2 minutes in the beginning of the round are indeed a good investment, regarding an increased chance of a fair and enjoyable 90 minutes match.

And yes, the admins need to check the teams before the round starts, not at the end of the pre-round, since the teams usually change a lot at mapchange.


I guess I'll update the first post with reasonable suggestions from you guys and then I'll pay every admin team a visit and present our results/suggestions.


EDIT:

Btw, if the servers really agree to set up the timer to 5:00 they probably can agree on a common squad-opening time?

Best thing to do here is all clan members remove your tags for one round and no one will never know

Ghostwolf wrote:I also like the suggestion of the 5:00 round start timer.Those additional 1 or 2 minutes in the beginning of the round are indeed a good investment, regarding an increased chance of a fair and enjoyable 90 minutes match.

I would agree except they're always those trolls that ruin coms before a match. Not all the time but a fair amount. I usually remove my headphones until I join a squad but even after joining there's the non-stop chatter sometimes outside of your squad making it hard to hear orders from your SL.

Thanfully you get kicked or temp-banned for that on the NEW server. They take briefing time very serious, and I would like to see this happening on other servers too.

I play American servers (HOG, Candy Van) and find the team balancing most off when insurgency is played. Or maybe I notice it more due to the frustration of fighting with no optics against an enemy with optics. I dont mind being insurgent assuming the team is relatively organized, focused and playing insurgency properly. Oh and balanced with opposing force. But if teams are stacked like they tend to be it is always balanced against inurgent team. Always! It is only a matter of time before server is so out of balance the game becomes a joke and it empties out completely. As an insurgent when I see teams with the usual clan tags stacked on west I jump out of server. Just no fun getting your aski kicked for 45 minutes or more.

On the other side I dont even notice (or dont care) if there is team stacking going on during AAS maps. I dont even look. Give me a few guys using mumble in my squad and I am happy. This may be due to my dislike for insurgency. But I dont see as many sever exodus's in AAS as I do in insurgency.

The feeling I get is this will not change. Those that particpate in stacking understand the issue. But hey just once let me see an entire clan stack themselves on the insurgency team.