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Against the Leo 2 the T-90 is really OP. The TOW can basically 1 shot the Leo 2 to the front armor, whereas it takes 3 leo rounds to a t-90s front armor to kill it.

650-750 mm of RHA- Penetration of 9m119 Svir(AT-11)- wikipedia and asiandefence.com and weaponsandwarefare.com
Although it is classified it is estimated that Chabam armor used on Challenger/Abrams/Leo 2 provides between 1000-1500mm of RHA protection. -wikipedia

Not sure if you are trolling but this is how not to do a feedback post I'm afraid. Welcome to PR, we don't make symmetrical assets I'm guessing you are talking about silent eagle or the new dutch maps. Nobody said that the leo's have to combat the T90's straight on.

That said I'll try to do what you speak of myself later today.

Next time please make a more constructive post.

tankninja1 wrote:Against the Leo 2 the T-90 is really OP. The TOW can basically 1 shot the Leo 2 to the front armor, whereas it takes 3 leo rounds to a t-90s front armor to kill it.

Send in infantry or light armoured vehicles.

Unlike Russian HAT; german one actually hits stuff past 200m.

[quote=""'[R-DEV"]Mineral;2019748']Not sure if you are trolling but this is how not to do a feedback post I'm afraid. Welcome to PR, we don't make symmetrical assets I'm guessing you are talking about silent eagle or the new dutch maps. Nobody said that the leo's have to combat the T90's straight on.

That said I'll try to do what you speak of myself later today.

Next time please make a more constructive post.[/quote]

No I'm not trolling and yes you do make symmetrical assets like the t-72 has a million times more armor than it should if it were to be accurate. Also I was just pointing out the inconsistency. In the past several game versions the devs have put tons of effort into removing 1-hit kill spots and balancing all tanks. Although the TOW doesn't insta kill it does 1-shot other tanks. It used to be like this when the T-72 would fight the Abrams but the t-72 was reinforced and the Abrams was nerfed.

For reference I was talking about the Leo 2 for Canada vs. Russian T-90 on Yamalia.

[quote="ComradeHX""]Send in infantry or light armoured vehicles.

Unlike Russian HAT; german one actually hits stuff past 200m.[/quote]

That's not the point I was making. You can always attack something in multiple ways. I was just pointing out the massive discrepancy between assets. 3 shots to kill vs 1 isn't fair at all especially considering the Russian 125mm gun launched TOW won't even penetrate the front armor of a Leo.

650-750 mm of RHA- Penetration of 9m119 Svir(AT-11)- wikipedia and asiandefence.com and weaponsandwarefare.com
Although it is classified it is estimated that Chabam armor used on Challenger/Abrams/Leo 2 provides between 1000-1500mm of RHA protection. -wikipedia

tankninja1 wrote: It used to be like this when the T-72 would fight the Abrams but the t-72 was reinforced and the Abrams was nerfed.

Wow.. if the abrams was nerfed what happend to the leclerc auto acquisition system to make him able to hit targets while moving.

I personnaly found tank's on pr pretty balanced since the ATGM have pros and cons.

Do you even realise how often ATGM get suck in branches and blows up? Everytime I tank in a Leo2 I outgun all other tanks, thanks to it's incredible acceleration and agility. Furthermore, unlike the T-90 that basically comes in at 50% health due to terrain damage, you can go always full speed.

[quote=""'KillJoy[Fr"];2019855']Wow.. if the abrams was nerfed what happend to the leclerc auto acquisition system to make him able to hit targets while moving. [/quote]

FCS is something lots of tanks have sombody figured out how to mod it into PR but somebody decided not to include it in PR and why don't you believe the Abrams has been nerfed remember back in .95 or there abouts it was back luck if the abrams had to fire 2 ap shots against a t-72



https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f388-pr-bf2-community-modding/117689-concept-tank-fcs.html- Last updated in 2013

[quote="Brainlaag""]Do you even realise how often ATGM get suck in branches and blows up? Everytime I tank in a Leo2 I outgun all other tanks, thanks to it's incredible acceleration and agility. Furthermore, unlike the T-90 that basically comes in at 50% health due to terrain damage, you can go always full speed.[/quote]

I've rarely seen an ATGM get stuck in a tree branch or miss only time i saw that happen was when the ATGMs first got the looping effect but that got way toned back and they are basically 80% accurate now. If you take a lot of terrain damage in a t-90 get a better driver, I have never had a problem with terrain damage in a t-90 especially on a very flat map like Yamalia

The last time I did a LEO squad on silent we killed all T-90s on after another without loosing a single tank to them.
Also I think we only needed 2 hits (not sure).

tankninja1 wrote:FCS is something lots of tanks have sombody figured out how to mod it into PR but somebody decided not to include it in PR and why don't you believe the Abrams has been nerfed remember back in .95 or there abouts it was back luck if the abrams had to fire 2 ap shots against a t-72

Wrong, all things Mosquil did were not in BF2 but 2142 (updated Refractor engine). They didn't get introduced into PR because they are not possible.

tankninja1 wrote:I've rarely seen an ATGM get stuck in a tree branch or miss only time i saw that happen was when the ATGMs first got the looping effect but that got way toned back and they are basically 80% accurate now. If you take a lot of terrain damage in a t-90 get a better driver, I have never had a problem with terrain damage in a t-90 especially on a very flat map like Yamalia

On Silent the T-90 has the disadvantage because of the terrain and on Yamalia the trees negate the advantage of the ATGM. If people are retarded to stick around the open fields without a good perimeter security and eye in the sky, it's their fault. I've been wrecking T-90s since 0.9 and I cannot get behind your assumption. Meanwhile I always hated and still hate the bugged damage issues of the T-90 regarding terrain. In fact, judging by numbers and personal experience, it seems that all ATGM armed tanks (the Type 98 and the T-90) are always inferior to their counterparts.

Brainlaag wrote:I've been wrecking T-90s since 0.9 and I cannot get behind your assumption.

I never made an assumption I simply stated that the T-90 can kill the Leo with 1 shot to the frontal armor whereas it takes the Leo 3 shots to kill a t-90s frontal armor. That round I killed two T-90s but I was also killed 2 times after pumping 2 rounds into t-90s before the t-90s fired 1 ATGM.

Brainlaag wrote:Wrong, all things Mosquil did were not in BF2 but 2142 (updated Refractor engine). They didn't get introduced into PR because they are not possible.

Check the linked thread. Also Kashan Desert.

tankninja1 wrote:I never made an assumption I simply stated that the T-90 can kill the Leo with 1 shot to the frontal armor whereas it takes the Leo 3 shots to kill a t-90s frontal armor. That round I killed two T-90s but I was also killed 2 times after pumping 2 rounds into t-90s before the t-90s fired 1 ATGM.



Check the linked thread. Also Kashan Desert.

Your thread's title is an assumption, because it isn't true. Also check Rhino's reply in that thread.

My mistake btw, seems like the FCS was not on 2142 but a local BF2 server. Still not possible. Mosquil imported Kashan to 2142 for various tests (like night and day cycle).

tankninja1 wrote: That's not the point I was making. You can always attack something in multiple ways. I was just pointing out the massive discrepancy between assets. 3 shots to kill vs 1 isn't fair at all especially considering the Russian 125mm gun launched TOW won't even penetrate the front armor of a Leo.

650-750 mm of RHA- Penetration of 9m119 Svir(AT-11)- wikipedia and asiandefence.com and weaponsandwarefare.com
Although it is classified it is estimated that Chabam armor used on Challenger/Abrams/Leo 2 provides between 1000-1500mm of RHA protection. -wikipedia

It won't penetrate the armour because you found internet source on a generous estimate of effective armour against HEAT?
Btw it's Refleks. Svir is the one for T-72.

Estimate is worth nothing when no actual testing have been done.

Closest to an actual test, iirc, was cited to be on Jane's about Germany testing 120mm rheinmetall gun against T-72 with kontakt-5 from old EG stock. (iirc the result was apparently T-72 + kontakt-5 was immune frontally to M829A2)
But there are many claims that it's bull**** since East Germany didn't have kontakt-5.

So T-72 in-game could be a stand-in for either T-72 with kontakt-5(era just not modeled because no one has the time to make a new model for PR) or even relikt which is supposed to be a lot better than kontakt-5.

ComradeHX wrote: Btw it's Refleks. Svir is the one for T-72.

Same missle diffrent generation like compairing a M16A1 to an M16A4 same basic structure and abilites but with refinements for accuracy and reliability. But I did find some extra information when I double checked myself the 9m119m1 (a doubled down moded version of the refleks/svir) penetrates an estimated 900mm of RHA.

I'm sure actual test have been done but those tests would be top secret, estimation is the only real tool available as no Leo 2 has ever been fired at by a Refleks from a t-90.

tankninja1 wrote:No I'm not trolling and yes you do make symmetrical assets like the t-72 has a million times more armor than it should if it were to be accurate. Also I was just pointing out the inconsistency. In the past several game versions the devs have put tons of effort into removing 1-hit kill spots and balancing all tanks. Although the TOW doesn't insta kill it does 1-shot other tanks. It used to be like this when the T-72 would fight the Abrams but the t-72 was reinforced and the Abrams was nerfed.

For reference I was talking about the Leo 2 for Canada vs. Russian T-90 on Yamalia.



That's not the point I was making. You can always attack something in multiple ways. I was just pointing out the massive discrepancy between assets. 3 shots to kill vs 1 isn't fair at all especially considering the Russian 125mm gun launched TOW won't even penetrate the front armor of a Leo.

650-750 mm of RHA- Penetration of 9m119 Svir(AT-11)- wikipedia and asiandefence.com and weaponsandwarefare.com
Although it is classified it is estimated that Chabam armor used on Challenger/Abrams/Leo 2 provides between 1000-1500mm of RHA protection. -wikipedia

Frontal hit with the russian ATGM won't kill the leopard.

Kerryburgerking wrote:Frontal hit with the russian ATGM won't kill the leopard.

In game experience tells me otherwise. Leo 2 catches on fire and no more than 5-10 secs later explodes. The ATGM also will usually break something like the turret or a track.

tankninja1 wrote:In game experience tells me otherwise. Leo 2 catches on fire and no more than 5-10 secs later explodes. The ATGM also will usually break something like the turret or a track.

It does not always kill instantly from front for sure unless pre damaged by other weapons.



I would complain about mtlb if I were you.
Those atgm are too awesome. Fires fast kills hard.

I would not complain about atgm damage nerf if reload of everything gets buffed to compensate.