Project Reality Forums

Hi all,

Long time player (since .5).

I was just wondering what is the rationale behind insurgents not being able to steal kits of fallen blufor players?

It makes sense that blufor players can't steal weapons used by insurgents (nor would they want to in most cases), but what is the reason for insurgents not being able to steal kits?

In real life, insurgents do this all the time. From a gameplay perspective I think it makes a lot more sense to let insurgents steal blufor kits. Having to look out for infiltrators creates a lot more tension and giving insurgents some scoped rifles evens out the odds, IMHO.

So what gives?

Its been talked about extensively in the past. You could probably find an answer by using the forum's search tools

The case, if you remember was that after a while you could have a team full of insurgents with scoped weapons. And the blufor actively not taking scoped kits. But that's not the only reason. Also because of some kits absolutely need special training. For examle the SRAW. And think of the ammo problem, surely an insurgent couldn't go to his main and get another SRAW? If the coders could prevent this they would, I am sure, but good old refractor you know...

Then there case with regular kits. Apart from the ammo issue you could argue the best you want why all kits are now "locked" or before when only certain kits were "locked" you could argue why some kits were locked and some don't.

And also up for a discussion, did this really solve the issues? I still see (and have done myself) picked an enemy sniper kit, zoom in, shoot and then pick up my old kit. And it sort of works, its only harder than it was before.

Basically what sweedensniiperr said:

- Picking up a gun is easy, but in this game this automatically means access to infinite ammunition of that weapon from realistically unsuitable sources

- While in real life, lost equipment can be replaced, in-game a limited kit that was lost is lost until the new owner dies and the kit despawns. This is not very realistic, as these things would not be quite as limited in real life as they are in the game.

- Propotions. A single gun is not very important in real life, but a single scoped rifle makes a big gameplay impact in-game because of the scaled-down nature of everything. The amount of combat seen by a single soldier is scaled up for more fun, and the amount of equipment is scaled down because of game design / player count limitations. So more lost guns per hour, and less guns per team. Would not take long for the entire insurgency to be inadequately well equipped.

- Then the training aspect for specialist weapons, takes some knowledge to handle a few, though admittedly that's the least of the concerns as figuring that out isn't impossible. But:

- Effectiveness of weapon usage. Using an unfamiliar weapon platform, while not generally impossible, should realistically yield worse results. Guns are balanced not only for their real life properties, but also for the skill of the presumed user - sniper rifles for instance are balanced to cause more damage than battle rifles using the same caliber, because of presumed higher marksmanship skill. This skill would be lacking by the insurgent who picks up the unfamiliar weapon.

Hope that's a few reasons you can agree with

@sweeden
@spec

The reverse is also true. Sometimes on some maps an Insurgent AK47 is alot more valuable than a scoped M16. Like Insurgency Pre 1.0, when sneaking and stealth were that much more important.

So the way I see it, this limitation definitely makes sense for ATGMs and MANPAD systems. Insurgents don't have steady access And the whole "enemy team full of blufor-rifles" makes sense too.

BUT, I don't think the "where will they get 5.56 ammo?" is a big problem, realistically speaking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxumsOQMxLE

5.56 ammo is not hard to come by in the third world. There are large stocks of m16a1s floating around the middle east, and we've all seen videos of ISIS militants using m16a4s stolen from iraqi armories. Russia and China both produce 5.56 rifles and ammo, and the US, UK, France, and Gulf States sell or give 5.56 rifles and ammo to groups that they like.

I thought it was because name tags no longer show above peoples heads all the time like in previous versions.

That's one reason I forgot to list.

What I listed was why it was introduced in the first place (and, indeed, at first only for special kits).

The fact that picking up a gun means picking up the outfit, too, adds to the issue, especially now that nametags are nearly nonexistant. But that's just one more aspect of it.

I thought the biggest issues were what Spec just listed and that if an enemy picks up a limited kit (medic, HAT anything else) the kit does not respawn/cannot be used if the enemy has it in their hands.

it was still more fun though

As others have mentioned, there is no single one reason for this but really a whole heap of reasons which all just adds up to it having an overall negative and unrealistic aspect to the gameplay.

If we could have:

• Faction/Weapon Specific Supply Types so you can't reload weapons that your faction doesn't have ammo for (unless you are able to capture some enemy ammo)
• Not picking up the enemy "kit geoms" when picking up their weapons, so you are not wearing the enemy body armour, helmets etc (technically it's possible to do but would require serious re-work of our kit geoms in order to make it work and there would be many hurdles to overcome as well for getting non-conventional kit geom layouts to match up with conventional ones, but biggest issue is the sheer amount of skilled work required to do it. This also being the single biggest gameplay and immersion issue which would allow you to "ninja" your way into enemy squads, making them think you where on their side)
• Being able to simulate your faction not being trained with a weapons system, which could mean longer reload/deploy times, less accuracy, and possibly in some cases the inability to use extremely complicated weapons.
• Taking a limited enemy kit means that the enemy can no longer get this kit back until the enemy with the kit has died and the kit has vanished, which for the very limited kits like the H-AT kit, this was quite a big issue since denying the enemy from having the kit was pretty much the single biggest reason for picking it up in many cases as even if it had no ammo in it for you to use, you where still massively helping your team...

I have probably missed a few of the issues too but got the core ones and most of the above are simply not possible to fix with the BF2 engine.

Ehh, limiting frag grenades, binos and ammo bags to only certain Insurgent classes sucks more.

DEVs hate Insurgents

IMI-GALIL.223 wrote:it was still more fun though

Souls Of Mischief wrote: DEVs hate Insurgents

Both of you hit the nail on the head.

Pre 1.0 Insurgency was alot more fun. Blufor had to be fast and sneaky and Insurgents had to be deceptive and cunning to win.

Post 1.0 Insurgency: Ins got nerfed so bad that blufor had no problem rolling over opfor, I've seen some rounds last less than 30 minutes.

Souls Of Mischief wrote:Ehh, limiting frag grenades, binos and ammo bags to only certain Insurgent classes sucks more.

DEVs hate Insurgents

I do think we have nurfed the insurgent kit a bit too much (although that started well before v1.0, which iirc, the not being able to steal enemy kits was also pre-v1.0 too) but tbh, this topic about not being able to steal enemy kits isn't just about insurgents, its about all factions, just the insurgents where the most to benefit from it especially if someone lost the HAT or AA kits which especially for AA, they didn't really need.