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TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 10:57
by Knighthead
Hi there!
Yesterday I've realized that the TOW firing system has changed (you have to hold the mouse button for a while), but I havent found anything about that in the Manual. Is it me or is it really left out from it?
Thanks in advance!
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 11:01
by Mineral
Thanks! I was unaware of this change myself
I'll try to remember to put it in the manual at next revision.
But yeah, we added a realistic fire delay system by having to hold down the mouse for a few moments.
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 11:10
by Knighthead
It's quite a good idea. The bad thing is, I had to find it out in a hard way (was looking a tank and trying to take it down, when it spotted me and hit me really hard
).
Thanks for you quick response ^^.
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 11:18
by B2P1
I was soooooo confused why my HAT wouldnt fire...
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 12:46
by Jacksonez__
Knighthead wrote:It's quite a good idea. The bad thing is, I had to find it out in a hard way (was looking a tank and trying to take it down, when it spotted me and hit me really hard
).
Thanks for you quick response ^^.
There is a slight delay indeed in real life when you fire an ATGM. Squeezing the trigger starts the missile motor, can't remember exact name. There should be a slight "click" sound after the motor starts
More realism!
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 13:05
by ComradeHX
Jacksonez__ wrote:There is a slight delay indeed in real life when you fire an ATGM. Squeezing the trigger starts the missile motor, can't remember exact name. There should be a slight "click" sound after the motor starts
More realism!
Not realistic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txy6xkJadaA
You can hear it in this video; it's A LOT shorter(maybe 0.5 second or less) than the HUGE delay currently in PR.
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 13:30
by Jacksonez__
Not really. I've seen BGM-71 in action irl and actually watched the clip we captured on video at the drill and it was about ~90-110ms delay after the click sound until missile leaves the tube
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 13:35
by DonDOOM
Watch the video again, you hear the first quiet click at around 25/26 seconds and the missile is only fired at 29 seconds
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 23:53
by ComradeHX
DonDOOM wrote:Watch the video again, you hear the first quiet click at around 25/26 seconds and the missile is only fired at 29 seconds
That's not the sound of "motor" starting.
Here is a guy who pressed the trigger button once and left it:
https://youtu.be/WyWGHzXZZms?t=2s
Here is a guy who holds down the trigger:
https://youtu.be/wDOyjNjnQYo?t=23s
(this is what the delay in PRv1.3 is like)
Makes no sense to have to hold fire button there, at least.
Milan has much shorter delay than 3+ seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI9j68db5GI
Same can be found for Kornet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOFVCF1KtxI
Operator just pushes button and let go, it will fire after a short delay.
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-05-31 23:59
by viirusiiseli
You just posted an argument with a video that invalidates your argument. Good job. The missile motor can be heard 1-3 seconds before the missile leaves the launcher...
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-01 00:05
by ComradeHX
viirusiiseli wrote:You just posted an argument with a video that invalidates your argument. Good job. The missile motor can be heard 1-3 seconds before the missile leaves the launcher...
Again, not the motor.
Tell me how does missile booster charge take two seconds to send the missile out of the tube.
You can't.
Good job talking about what you don't understand... (You don't even know what my argument was)
This was due to a chemical battery charging the initiator circuit (the operator could hear a rising whine similar to the whine made by early integrated flash cameras when charging the flash circuit).
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-01 09:29
by Jacksonez__
ComradeHX wrote:Again, not the motor.
Tell me how does missile booster charge take two seconds to send the missile out of the tube.
You can't.
Good job talking about what you don't understand... (You don't even know what my argument was)
finnish defence force TOW shooter's manual book, it's in Finnish though
http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/wcm/08fc0 ... OD=AJPERES
page 31, the launch
Shooter pushes the trigger for a brief moment. The control unit of TOW will send a launch pulse to the missile. Then the battery and the gyro will start. The missile leaves the tube in 1,5 seconds after the trigger has been pushed. Timer in control unit will send a signal to launch motor that ignites it
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-01 09:59
by Mats391
It is not only about motor starting, but also gyro starting up and w/e other technical stuff is in there that needs some time.
The delay also is not the same for all ATGMs. As you already said, the Milan has a shorter delay in real life and in game.
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-01 10:37
by viirusiiseli
ComradeHX wrote:Again, not the motor.
Tell me how does missile booster charge take two seconds to send the missile out of the tube.
You can't.
Good job talking about what you don't understand... (You don't even know what my argument was)
The timer in the control unit launches the starter rocket which breaks the missile containers split pin, firing the missile through the front film enclosing the missile. The starter rocket dies off before the missile leaves the launcher completely. This takes more time than a 0.5 seconds or less.
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-01 11:34
by ComradeHX
That's my point; it wasn't the launch motor...etc. that was causing the long delay.
viirusiiseli wrote:The timer in the control unit launches the starter rocket which breaks the missile containers split pin, firing the missile through the front film enclosing the missile. The starter rocket dies off before the missile leaves the launcher completely. This takes more time than a 0.5 seconds or less.
No shit that's the TIMER causing the long delay; not the launch motor.
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-01 11:51
by Jacksonez__
ComradeHX wrote:That's my point; it wasn't the launch motor...etc. that was causing the long delay.
No shit that's the TIMER causing the long delay; not the launch motor.
Timer does the delay so the motor&gyro&etc is started for sure, I don't really get this stuff now. What's the point of this argument?
The delay in PR probably just simulates that. Having to hold LMB for 0.8 sec, who cares. At least no miss-click shots. And that could simulate the safety switch over the actual trigger. (iirc tow has it)
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-14 21:36
by tankninja1
Are the firing times different on different rockets?
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-15 00:53
by M42 Zwilling
[R-DEV]Mats391 wrote:The delay also is not the same for all ATGMs.
1234567
Re: TOW changes - Manual
Posted: 2015-06-19 05:35
by [F|H]Zackyx
1234567
Launch Motor:
Located at aft end of missile.
2.1 inches in diameter; 17 inches long.
Contains four tubular grains of M-7 double base propellant weighing 1.2 pounds
Activated 1.5 seconds after trigger pull.
Propellant provides 15,000 lbs of thrust for approximately 35-50 milliseconds, and is expended prior to the missile leaving the tube.
Accelerates missile to about 250 ft / second.
Attitude gyro:
It is mounted in the center section case.
The gyro is driven and accelerated to 42,000 rpm by a 3,000 psi nitrogen charge. This is a part of the sequence between trigger pull and launch motor ignition.
The nitrogen is release when an explosive piston ruptures a diagram at trigger pull.
Gyro is caged during spin-up. Caging device is released when nitrogen pressure is exhausted.
Gyro sends yaw information for only the first 0.76 seconds of flight, but sends roll information for entire flight.
The delay in real life is caused by the spooling time of the gyro, if you pay attention in real life ATGM video before the launch you will alaways hear a high pitch noise.