Project Reality Forums

Hello, I don't normally sign up to forums just to complain, so this is a bit of a first for me. Some of you will probably flame or be offended (especially the devs, I know you work hard to bring something to the ungrateful masses for free, I apologise in advance).

I usually play a lot of realistic (or so called) games, it's my favourite kind of gaming experience because you have to use your head as much as you have to use your hand-eye coordination.
Through IRC I was encouraged to get PRM, I had to reinstall BF2 (which, frankly, I found to be a pretty weak game but at the very least it was a fun "run 'n' gun" style game where you had some occaisional teamplay). The last BF2 mod I played was PoE2 which prompted me to uninstall BF2 after I realised that there's simply not a lot you can do to the BF2 engine as far as modding goes to make it any different, not to mention the lag was unbearable at times.

I give you this blarb just to let you know where I am coming from, I'm not some idiot who just wants to flame you for your hard work.

However, after playing the game for some 3 days now (trying hard to find a good European server that doesn't kick/ban for swearing or accidental TK's - the skins are ridiculously similar, and saying "shit" seems to be worse than spawn camping or purposeful wounding in most server admins eyes..) I'm pretty disapointed. The game was built up by the person who encouraged me to download it to such a point that I found it hard to believe what he was saying was true - various reviews built up the community and the gameplay to make it sound like Red Orchestra meets OFP; I found the game to be exactly like BF2 but with 1 or 2 shot kills - the people playing in 2-man locked squads, squad leaders and members wandering off on their own, the camping of ridiculous spots, the outrageous (and I mean fkn unplayable) lag spikes and the arrogance of players towards newbies made the whole experience a total washout for me.

Spawning in an open area and getting shot instantly by people camping on rooves looking into the spawn (seems to be a common theme in all the custom maps - by custom I mean the official PRM maps); lagging from one alleyway to another, across streets and getting shot by peopel camping the spawn exits - I dunno, nothing about the game seemed fun to me, and I'm used to some pretty annoying gameplay that can be found in 'realistic' games.

And that brings me to realism, I'm not entirely sure what was realistic about PRM - the class system and the damage might be considered realistic but when put into practice they both seem to fail due to the way BF2 is designed and the very little control modders have to change things. I hated the gameplay, and I hated getting killed by people camping spawns, waiting 30 seconds (or more depending on how buggy the game wanted to be, and how lame the Squad Leaders decided to be - not getting healed so you can't spawn on them etc) only to get shot by the same guy again. The flying is unchanged, as is the driving, adding high damage and long respawn times just doesn't sell the realism thing to me, there's too much that is untouched that detracts from it.

I won't be playing the mod again until I get hassled into playing it by my buddies on IRC, and I cerrtainly won't be eagerly awaiting the next version, it just seems that the whole experience has been very unpolished and a waste of time.

No offence (I'm sure nobody cares anyway ;D), flame away, do what you will. This game has failed at realism

It is a game and it does a bloody good job at realism given the LIMITS of the ENGINE.

I also don't see the problems with driving, maybe you're just shite

You need to find the right players. One day I can be kursing the aboslute diabolical **** I see in games and it makes me hate it, then hours later I can jump into a game with 5 guys/girls on VOIP,they work as a team and communicate and it becomes the best thing I've ever experienced on a computer.

You can only mod the game, not the players.
If you want to have fun, play late and join a VoIP squad.
Or join the PR Tournament, teamplay guaranteed.

Don't agree with much of your post but I can see where you're coming from. I agree with the Rooftop campers, it's ridiculous ....the amount of roofs accessable in PR is way over the top. Might aswell call it Battlefield 2: Spiderman.

It's annoying when you're having some good action on the ground, using cover and whatnot. Especially Muttrah, it would be a much more free-flowing map if it didn't have every single roof accesable by ladder.

Forget trying to get a good gaming expirience on a euro server, there's hardly ANY teamwork on them, pluss nobody uses VoIP ( language barrier?)
However, if you're lucky and come across the veteran players who do use VoIP I can guarantee you will have a pretty nice gaming expirience.

I too think this mod fails at realism(doesn't mean the mod is bad though), but that's not why I play it, I play it for having a very teamwork/mature oriented community, but as I and others have said, it all depends on where and when you play.

Good comments and taking the time to make them is much appreciated - tyvm.

We can't "mod the players" so teamwork and bad attitudes are unfortunately in the hands of players. If you are really into high level of teamplay you could look into the PR Tournament.

We have tried to create an environment where teamplay is rewarded. So, as an example, the spawn times are NOT 30s .. the spawn times are actually 0s. There is a 30s "unconscious" time that, unless you were headshotted, you can be revived by a Medic (using very unrealistic defibrillators that we left in because they really encourage and reward teamwork). Medics are an unlimited class so every squad should have one, stay close to them and you'll see less spawn time and more combat time.

If you are getting spawn camped... yeah there are some maps that have some issues that seem to "promote" spawn camping. We hope we have addressed the map specific issues there with the next release. But we can't stop players from spawning into a base that is being spawn camped. You need to spawn somewhere else.

The spawning mechanisms in BF2 are some of the last dimensions to the Infantry play that we have not overhauled. With the next release we're taking the first of two steps to overhaul the spawning mechanism. We're separating the concept of CP control and the ability to spawn at that CP. And putting the ability to spawn and where to spawn into the hands of players. So things should be much less predictable and should hopefully help minimise spawn camping.

Another area that we've not really done much with is around the CP capture logic. What's in PR v0.4 is pretty much the "vanilla" flag cap logic. While we use the AAS game mode, which enforces a linear order of "supply line" connectivity to the CPs, the problems with the "vanilla" flag capture logic are even more accentuated with AAS. So we're rewritten the game mode and the flag cap logic. We hope the new logic will also help to minimize spawn camping. With the current logic, spawn camping IS basically part of capturing a CP and this is a bad thing. We'll see how it goes in v0.5 and make some adjustments from there.

wrt flying and driving.. well .. not sure I understand what you are expecting there.. 4 wheels and a steering wheel... don't really know how much more we can do there.

wrt vehicles like aircraft, helicopters and tanks... we're just now getting to paying some attention to the vehicular aspects of the mod so it will take a couple of releases to get that where we'd like it. To date we've been focused on the Infantry play.

Lag issues are likely performance issues in the mod. We've made huge strides there for the next release .. which you don't care about

DICE / EA had a team of about 30 people work on BF2 for about 3 years as their full time occupations. That's about 90 man years of labor to extend BF1942 (which had about the same amount of man years into it).

We've had about 40 people .. on and off .. work on PR as a part time hobby for about 1.5 years .. so at 25% time dedication and an average of about 20 people, we've had about 7.5 man years of labor to get PR where it is today.

Or about 8% of the time EA / DICE put into BF2. I think we've done a great job to move the mod further from BF2 in that sort of labor comparison and will continue to do so over the coming months.

Let me flip it back atcha... since Project Reality is so disappointing .. can you give me examples of "first person, combined arms, realism and teamplay oriented multiplayer shooters" that you think we should look to for inspiration?

Give me a list of 3 good ones that have:
- multiplayer up to 64 players
- vehicles including jeeps, APCs, tanks, aircraft, helicopters and such
- moderate to high fidelity realism

... and I'll check them out (if I haven't already).

Thanks again for the coments.

Give me a list of 3 good ones that have:
- multiplayer up to 64 players
- vehicles including jeeps, APCs, tanks, aircraft, helicopters and such
- moderate to high fidelity realism

#1. Operation Flashpoint.

#2. Virtual Battlespace.

#3. Armed Assault.

I couldn't help myself.

Bohemian Interactive ROCKS!!!!

I'll shut up now

Guerra norte wrote:Forget trying to get a good gaming expirience on a euro server, there's hardly ANY teamwork on them, pluss nobody uses VoIP ( language barrier?)

I play in a VoIP squad almost every night on Thors Brigade.

I like egg's question of what game is preferable to PRM at this point. I loved OFP, I enjoyed RO etc. I think PRM has done a very good job at making vBF2 playable to those who enjoy more realistic games. I would love the jets to be much more realistic, but it's not going to happen due to the limits of the engine. (RWR, Laser Targeting, High level pinpoint bombing etc). I know that I have had some issues in the past (last night) geting spawn camped, but you pick another spawn location if possible and move on.

You can't mod the players, I was there when Counter Strike went from the college kids to the little kids. When VOIP came out and they couldn't hide the high voices... Can't mod the players, but you can make it fun.

If you find that one great game that we're all looking for PLEASE! let me know. For now, PRM is the best that's out there. I the next few years, who knows.

Guerra norte wrote:#1. Operation Flashpoint.

#2. Virtual Battlespace.

#3. Armed Assault.

I couldn't help myself.

Bohemian Interactive ROCKS!!!!

I'll shut up now

Heh uh.... VBS is uh.. not a relevant comparison as most people aren't willing to shell out that kind of money.

OFP.. er.. well... I *guess* you can call OFP a multiplayer game.

ArmA looks promising, but due to the buggyness I've not really been able to enjoy a good game of it as yet.

I think you are one of the few ppl who have just joined servers at the wrong time to find the non-teamplay ppl.

Join the right server at the right time, and you can have a hell of a game!

If I where you I would spend more time on the mod to find the good sides to it. When i first played this mod i thought it was utter ****, and it took me afew tries to get into it and look where I am now.

Try to join other servers, before joining a squad look at the minimap to see if they are moving together etc, or maybe why dont you take the step to crate a squad and lead your fellow team members into battle. What mainly makes games crappy is when you do not have a GOOD squad leader and when that happens you get no team work. No Leader, No team work its as simple as that.

OFP.. er.. well... I *guess* you can call OFP a multiplayer game.

Wowowow hang on! Have been in/seen any of the WGL sessions at Shack tactical? Have a look ---> Clicky

ive gotta agree with all these guys.

Its truely shite you had such a bad experience, but stick at it and look for good servers. Thors and igi are the most popular, and you will almost always finad a good level of teamplay in them.

if not, look for some forum guys in the server, they all play well

Some things are not for everybody. No big deal.

The BF2 engine is much smoother than BI games and that's why I like it.

1) If you got spawn killed the first time, why on earth would you spawn back at the same place? The other team now has control of that area, and you've no business spawning there. They may not have capped the flag yet, but it's a matter of time. Often somebody will first move to cover the flag area and kill anybody as the come out of buildings or from behind cover, while the rest of their squad awaits the "go go go!" before moving in to actually cap. I don't consider this "spawn camping". Apparently there's people out there that actually camp spawns to help their KDR, but I haven't seen them. Maybe the European servers are worse.

2) IRL, you're going to have enemies in buildings and on the rooftops. That's part of urban combat. Probably best to just get used to it.

3) The spawn times only become a problem if you're careless with your life. The spawn time grows by 1 second every time you die, so keep those deaths minimal and you'll be fine. This has the welcome effect of discouraging rambo tactics.

4) I almost gave up on PR after the 0.4 patch came out. There's a steep learning curve, and you've got to really alter your playing style, which will only happen if you dedicate the playing hours necassary for your style to evolve. Give it an honest chance or don't. But realize that there's certainly something to this mod, as the passion and dedication of it's core group of players can attest to.

EDIT: 5) Sucks that you found so many people not playing with real teamwork. While I remain convinced that you've probably just happened to be in a series of wrong places at wrong times player wise, there is a growing smacktard population in PRM. I hate it too. It pisses me off and I think it's ruining the mod. But what are you going to do? The only way to keep the smacktards off is to play a really inaccessible game like ArmedAssault. But I'd rather have some fun to go with my play, and I can't match the system req's anyways for a good sim.

I think PR already is great. I have had some moments in this game/mod that gave me flashbacks to real life. That alone is awesome!

many players has experienced many rounds, that weren’t that great. But as some already has said, u can’t mod the players. Besides, everyone is learning all the time. Including the experienced players.


Note: I’m surprised to read that the DEV team has consisted of so few people pr. year. I think the results are amazing when u take that fact into consideration.

Go back to Vanilla BF2 and realise how great an improvement PR is.

Guerra norte wrote:#1. Operation Flashpoint.

#2. Virtual Battlespace.

#3. Armed Assault.

I couldn't help myself.

Bohemian Interactive ROCKS!!!!

I'll shut up now

^^i agrre with this post