Project Reality Forums

Good Evening,

Ok, I don't want to bring this up but I would like something good to come from it. I also know that this thread could be shut down in a New York second if it gets a little crazy.

With that said, I've heard players talking about rumors and all about PRISM and how it has been used for ghosting by server admins.

#1 - I totally understand that these are "rumors" or unfounded accusations at face value.
#2 - I also understand that this kind of lumps all server admins into this in some kind of small way.

Here is my main point, where is any type of transparency by any server, the community, or the devs regarding this? How can one prove that anyone is ghosting whether it be PRISM or something as simple as a phone call.

Would it be possible to include in the !admins command a list of admin names that are on PRISM?

Personally, I'm a bit suspicious of anyone on PRISM that is also in the game with most of their mates on their side. It's basic human psychology and nothing else.

Is there any others out there that share the same opinion?

Dont... just dont.

Good Evening,

Zeno, I understand and I hate to bring it up. Further note that I did not mention any specific server or admin. I personally don't know how you can prove anything in PR. Only a select few can prove anything and even then is that information doctored / tailored to support a specific view of a particular incident? I'm not a black helicopter / drone conspirator but rather someone that would love for more visual transparency. I also understand that BattleRecorder files help with this but not everyone knows how to view these even. I've read many tutorials but evidently it hasn't been presented in a clear guide, for me anyways, so I can view them.

My main thrust here is can the !admins command include any PRISM user? Now not understanding totally how PRISM and PR work together, is it possible or is it already required that the game name and PRISM name match?

RAWSwampFox wrote: Personally, I'm a bit suspicious of anyone on PRISM that is also in the game with most of their mates on their side. It's basic human psychology and nothing else.

There's a system specifically designed in place to prevent that, but that doesn't eliminate the chances of ghosting.

Since PRISM is a very powerful tool, I hope there is some sort of regulation where a select few/high admins from each server can only have access to things like that. Of course that brings other issues to the table, such as one admin vs the server where constantly switching can be a nuisance (esp. if the admin wants to play too...), but I'm sure you guys can weigh out the goods and bad and be the judges yourselves.

Yup swamp, I share the same opinion.

I still think ghosting is an issue in insurgency... especially if a insurgent team is doing great defending the known cache.

It's very hard to prove someone is ghosting. The only time I accuse... if our unknown cache has enemies camping on it then it is blown up when it's known to the blufor.

I tend to see if there are the same clan tag (non admins) on both sides. Then I will be curious on ghosting.

But I think ghosting is a issue in PR. I stand by your post Swamp.

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Ghosting will never defeat solid tactics. The enemy still has to gain access to the cache, and while knowing the location of the cache, and perhaps the locations of OpFor and their assets will aid in their assault, a properly defended cache will still be a difficult task.

Similarly, knowing the location of a BlueFor FOB will not stop the onslaught of destruction wrought from their overwhelming force, if applied correctly.

While I do not approve of ghosting, or hacking, or anything like that, it has always been my contention that if I'm not good enough to beat a hacker/ghoster/glitcher/etc., then I'm not good enough yet. I'll keep trying.

The minute we start assuming that ALL of our servers we play on are rigged, we're done for. Let the server admins and their communities deal with improprieties.

PRISM doesn't show any players if you are also in the server.

It's a given that limitation will have a loophole camo, like running the tool from different hardware.

Some communities have admins who will use any tool to give themselves an advantage, some don't. Play where you're comfortable and don't worry about it, it's not like PRISM is any worse than the majority of script kiddie stuff.

Its funny how NA people are concerned about this mostly. PRISM is best tool out there to help admin the server. If server admins are abusing it, I suggest stop playing there.

We make a tool, just like we made the mod, the server commands for admins,... It's up to the server admins and owners to figure out the guidelines and access to who gets to used those tools. If a server provides prism to a user who uses it for ghosting, they only damage their own server. It's not up to us to to manage that.

PRISM is does not provide anything other than you could gain by having one quy on the other side. On our server we try to have one admin on each side to ensure good admins coverage. Would you say this is equally bad? Should we just let one team have chaos and have all admins on the other side?

If you are this scared of ghosting by the admins either go play on a different server, or if you want to go deeper, I would look to the 49 other guys on the team who also could be ghosting. If after realizing that anyone could be ghosting, you feel that MP PR might not be for you, I would suggest COOP.

[R-DEV]Mineral wrote:We make a tool, just like we made the mod, the server commands for admins,... It's up to the server admins and owners to figure out the guidelines and access to who gets to used those tools. If a server provides prism to a user who uses it for ghosting, they only damage their own server. It's not up to us to to manage that.

Good Morning,

Ok, while I understand that it is a great tool for server admins and that the DEVS do not want to step any further into server administration, my goal for this thread is to bring transparency and this can be helped by the DEVS. There is absolutely no way to prove anything on PR if your just a regular user. You can take screenshots and even then you are seriously questioned / rebutted by logs. I see where people are coming from in saying to just go play on another server but the community is kind of small which gives you limited choices so this argument is kind of well, like saying just don't play PR.

I've encountered suspicious activity from time to time but there is absolutely no way to prove anything. Anyone that plays with me or in my squad knows that I do not provide any information about the other team if I have just switched. I mean something as simple as having some kind of notice that notifies everyone of teamswitchers would be nice. Little things like this helps bring the "visual" aspect to transparency. On the flipside of the coin I also understand the drama that this can cause as well but I think the transparency outweighs this in a big way.

I've encountered suspicious activity from time to time but there is absolutely no way to prove anything.

This is indeed a problem. Maybe it would be good to show the name of the person active in PRISM either in the ingame messages or the server logs. Furthermore you can check the server's TS to see who's in a channel with whom.

Sucpicious activity? care to give us an excample?

you do know that there are already an "all seeing eye in the sky" called UAV that is most likely the "Ghoster"

Zeno wrote:Sucpicious activity? care to give us an excample?

you do know that there are already an "all seeing eye in the sky" called UAV that is most likely the "Ghoster"

Good Morning,

Zeno, you haven't been reading my posts with comprehension.

Regardless of any "example" I could provide, it can be explained away by anyone. Take your pick of a simple majority of any Insurgency round and you can find "suspicious" activity.

I don't have access to IP addresses, MAC addresses, GUID's, or anything else that identifies anyone. Heck, someone could be holding a LAN party for all I know. Ghosting is HARD to prove as all evidence is circumstantial. Put that same evidence in front of a "jury of your peers" and you will find that most would consider it at the very least, "highly suspicious."

Regarding the UAV, it would be nice to at least see who is commanding the enemy which would allow you to use your history with that user to provide you any insight on how the enemy will react. I don't think this will ever happen due to the appearance that the DEVS are wanting to strip more information out of the scoreboard to make the gameplay centered more around how you are playing and interacting with other players, if that makes sense.

RAWSwampFox wrote:Good Morning,

Zeno, you haven't been reading my posts with comprehension.

Regardless of any "example" I could provide, it can be explained away by anyone. Take your pick of a simple majority of any Insurgency round and you can find "suspicious" activity.

I don't have access to IP addresses, MAC addresses, GUID's, or anything else that identifies anyone. Heck, someone could be holding a LAN party for all I know. Ghosting is HARD to prove as all evidence is circumstantial. Put that same evidence in front of a "jury of your peers" and you will find that most would consider it at the very least, "highly suspicious."

Regarding the UAV, it would be nice to at least see who is commanding the enemy which would allow you to use your history with that user to provide you any insight on how the enemy will react. I don't think this will ever happen due to the appearance that the DEVS are wanting to strip more information out of the scoreboard to make the gameplay centered more around how you are playing and interacting with other players, if that makes sense.

If you cant do anything to change it, why worry about it?

And you can see who is commander of the enemy team, in the end score.

btw, This thread is useless and only fuels drama and accussations. This thread makes is seem like all the admins are sitting on Prism and telling their team where everyone is.. That is not the case and its not going to be the case as the program is locked if you are ingame and if you cant trust admins then i see no reason why you would play multiplayer at all.

edit: I have played this game for 8 years now, and only 1-2 times have Ghosting been a real issue, and that was very quicly and propperly handled by the admins.

Good Morning,

I'm not "worried" about it but rather pushing for transparency.

Me stirring up drama? You want me to bring up "examples" which only stirs up drama. Not going to do it.

Is it too much to ask for a simple PRISM user list to be included in the !admins command? Is it bad of me to totally disregard human psychology when it comes to the desire to do what is "prohibited" like "eating of the forbidden fruit" ? Come on, really?

I state again and finally, can the PRISM user list be included in the !admins command? Not looking for will it or maybe it will, just a simple answer to the "can" question. After that, close this thread, no interest in continuing the thread because it does go to drama when people stir things up. While I would love a follow up if the "can" question is answered with a yes, when would it be possibly included or considered for inclusion?

edit: Don't really care how long anyone has played the game, that does not indicate anything regarding level of levelheadedness or any other indicator you may point to. Some people grow up and some grow down (lowest common denominator principle) over time.

Well IMO the main ghosting issue now a days in PR is people switching teams. Especially at the start of the rounds in INS.

On occasion I have a squad member say: "guys I know where their team is lol". I just ignore him and if he tries to say a location I'll report him to admins for ghosting.

Recently I had a squad member who got mad at me for not letting him take a sniper kit. He switched right after I gave plans to attack. Then what a coincidence... right when we get there....there's a enemy squad waiting for us at the same exact location. Well I reported him to admins and they did discipline him. Thank god.

But I think it's much easier to prove team switchers that are ghosting rather then admins.

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