Project Reality Forums

Posted: **2015-11-02 13:34**

I think the current usage of the map Operation Soul Rebel is not compatible with the standards of PR.

Don't get me wrong, I like the design of the map etc. but I think the usage of the modern Russian Army with the Mig-21 against the modern British Army has nothing to do with any possible real scenario.
IIRC, this map is in someway to simulate a Cuban crisis, correct me if im wrong please.

Wouldn't it be a better solution to use the scopeless Russian army against the Vietnam era US army/USMC?

Or are the modern Brits a placeholder for the Falkland Brits?

Would like to hear the background idea behind adding this map aside of being a April Fools joke gone wild.

Nevertheless, the map is nice, I only think the reality aspect of the usage of this map is wrong.

Use this thread for any other feedback on the map aswell.

Thanks,

Posted: **2015-11-02 14:16**

Cheers for the feedback

mries wrote:Would like to hear the background idea behind adding this map aside of being a April Fools joke gone wild.

Well that is literally what it is

mries wrote:Don't get me wrong, I like the design of the map etc. but I think the usage of the modern Russian Army with the Mig-21 against the modern British Army has nothing to do with any possible real scenario.
IIRC, this map is in someway to simulate a Cuban crisis, correct me if im wrong please.

Wouldn't it be a better solution to use the scopeless Russian army against the Vietnam era US army/USMC?

Well the Russians are more a Place Holder faction for the Cubans since Russia/USSR is/was Cuba's biggest ally.

The British also make the most sense in defending the islands since Jamaica was until 1962, Britons most strategic Conley in the Caribbean with a major naval base (Port Royal) established in the late 1600s. The UK still has very strong ties with Jamaica till this day and although yes America is very likley to aid Jamaica with any crisis, it would be very unlikely they would do it without the British.

As for the MiG-21 issue, the Cuban Air Force still flies the jet and the MiG-21 ingame is in Cuban camo, and if (the very far fetched scenario of) Russia was to launch an attack from or around Cuba, it really isn't that far fetched in turn that Cuba would provide its jets in air support for the Russians, possibly even under Russian command.

The actual bigger issue IMO from Russia flying the MiG-21 is the British flying the Harrier GR9 since the Harrier GR9 was retired (early) from service in 2011 and currently the British have no carrier born fixed wing aircraft in service, until the F-35B comes into service in something like 2020....

mries wrote:Or are the modern Brits a placeholder for the Falkland Brits?

We are looking into having a 1980s layer yes

Posted: **2015-11-02 15:32**

I can't put my finger on it, but this map just doesn't feel right for PR ...

And the large layout has way too many tickets as it in reality it's only infantry vs infantry with the sparse jet flying past.

Honestly, and I hate to say this, this map feels like something for Battlefield 4. What if this map was remade and made a vietnam map? I think that would fit it better.

Also, the team with the better logistics win (as in Heli-pilots).
There are no means (as far as I'm aware of) to get supplies except choppers, and that is really broken since choppers are such vulnerable assets, especially if flown by newbies. This way the team with the better chopper squad can deploy several fobs in a nice, well thought out grid, while the other team will be stuck with 1 FOB to cover the whole island. There should be a repair station + 2 supply trucks spawning in like on saaremaa.

Posted: **2015-11-02 16:56**

Finally stopped lurking and signed up to give my two bits on Soul Rebel.

First off, Flying CAS is fun as hell. The large amount of ocean, and the ease with which you can use trees to block SAM LOS, makes for a lot of crazy-low flying. Even though it's an April Fools map, or maybe because of it, I think the ridiculousness it brings really adds something unique to the PR map pool.

That being said, I think the air balance might need a bit of work. The Russians seem to have the British outclassed in the air in every way. Not only do they get a Hind, but their planes seem faster, more maneuverable, and generally more survivable than their heavier Harrier counterparts. None of the games I've seen have many Harriers live long enough to take advantage of their extra munitions.

I can't comment much on the ground play, but to reiterate, flying CAS is an absolute blast on this map.

Posted: **2015-11-02 17:07**

Cheers guys

[quote=""'[TP"]Olsen;2103335']I can't put my finger on it, but this map just doesn't feel right for PR ...[/quote]

I think its because its simply a dense jungle map, which changes the combat a lot as its really hard to tell where your getting shot from. Some people wont like it, others will love it. W/e the case its some new unique gameplay to the mod which is only a good thing

'[TP wrote:Olsen;2103335']Also, the team with the better logistics win (as in Heli-pilots).
There are no means (as far as I'm aware of) to get supplies except choppers, and that is really broken since choppers are such vulnerable assets, especially if flown by newbies. This way the team with the better chopper squad can deploy several fobs in a nice, well thought out grid, while the other team will be stuck with 1 FOB to cover the whole island. There should be a repair station + 2 supply trucks spawning in like on saaremaa.

Ye I could look at giving a backup logi truck if enough people agree with this, although driving though the jungle isn't easy

[quote="Techercizer""]Finally stopped lurking and signed up to give my two bits on Soul Rebel.

First off, Flying CAS is fun as hell. The large amount of ocean, and the ease with which you can use trees to block SAM LOS, makes for a lot of crazy-low flying. Even though it's an April Fools map, or maybe because of it, I think the ridiculousness it brings really adds something unique to the PR map pool.[/quote]

Welcome and

Techercizer wrote:That being said, I think the air balance might need a bit of work. The Russians seem to have the British outclassed in the air in every way. Not only do they get a Hind, but their planes seem faster, more maneuverable, and generally more survivable than their heavier Harrier counterparts. None of the games I've seen have many Harriers live long enough to take advantage of their extra munitions.

Ye right now the MiG-21 has an insanely small turning circle and the Harrier should be far more manoeuvrable. Although that said, yesterday my squad managed to dominate the air for most of the round in the Harriers

Posted: **2015-11-02 17:21**

I also have to agree that the map feels a little "out of place". Not that big of a deal for me honestly. I really like that there's so much mushrooms

The one big thing however for me is the performance. I have pretty good computer and as of now this map is the only that can actually go down 20-30fps at certain places when looking into the island. And I run most maps around 40-80(map dependet alot). Other than that not much about the map itself.

Hind spawn on beginning? Reasoning? If he's lucky he literally rape all incoming GBs for the first 10minutes. BRDM for russians? Is that because brits have better HAT..?

I can see why you wanted the direct spawn in on boats but I don't really like it since you aren't actually guaranteed to spawn in with your squad. Sure you can stop and switch seats but then the point is even more proven that there could just as easily be a regular spawn.

Posted: **2015-11-02 17:40**

The map looks way to cartoonish.

Posted: **2015-11-02 18:27**

Raklodder wrote:The map looks way to cartoonish.

Given the amount of brown deserts and burnt out cities we have in PR, I think a little vibrant colour on a map looks downright gorgeous. Your mileage may vary.

'[R-DEV wrote:Ye I could look at giving a backup logi truck if enough people agree with this, although driving though the jungle isn't easy

This is actually very important, for more reasons than just spawn points. Getting the upper hand in the CAS layer means you're both free to bomb out enemy FOBs and to hunt down the choppers moving to drop supplies; without crates, the enemy can't build SAM sites; they're restricted to MANPADs, while your team has free reign to set up all the AA they want. This results in a slippery-slope situation where early air control can cripple the enemy team's efforts respond in any way to aerial threats.

For a map with a 2-flag bleed, that kind of crippling resource denial means that games are more of an avalanche than a tug-of-war. Even something light that can just drop half-crates could really open up tactical options for a losing team.

Posted: **2015-11-02 18:58**

Well, that was fun. And there is no clear way back to main base.

Noticible FPS problems.

Posted: **2015-11-02 19:23**

sweedensniiperr wrote:The one big thing however for me is the performance. I have pretty good computer and as of now this map is the only that can actually go down 20-30fps at certain places when looking into the island. And I run most maps around 40-80(map dependet alot). Other than that not much about the map itself.

Ye, this map has a lot more densely packed overgrowth than any other map, using a totally new method of how we are doing overgrowth which for the most part, works out pretty well. But in some places when on foot in the jungle the amount of draw calls and the amount of overdraw can become quite a bit much for some systems still. I might be able to optimize things a little further with making more LODs for trees that don't have any but right now got much bigger fish to fry.

sweedensniiperr wrote:Hind spawn on beginning? Reasoning? If he's lucky he literally rape all incoming GBs for the first 10minutes. BRDM for russians? Is that because brits have better HAT..?

True, will look into making the Hind have a delayed spawn but reason why it isn't currently is since it is kinda needed for its transport role at the start too, but can probably replace that with something else that doesn't respawn.

BRDMs are to counter the Brits WMIK Land Rovers.

sweedensniiperr wrote:I can see why you wanted the direct spawn in on boats but I don't really like it since you aren't actually guaranteed to spawn in with your squad. Sure you can stop and switch seats but then the point is even more proven that there could just as easily be a regular spawn.

Ye, lots of people are finding that rather counter productive. We are thinking of a few ways of getting around that issue

Posted: **2015-11-02 22:22**

I am in love with this map. Maps like Ghost Train and *gasp* Tad Sae were always some of my favorite maps in PR. Ultra close engagement range jungles just provide a massive difference in terms of gameplay from the usual deserts / urban maps that we see. Hell, even more than the forests like Fools Road. Got to do a great round on Soul Rebel yesterday and snagged a few decent clips. The water looks lovely, the terrain is great and colorful (as another player said, its a wonderful change). I love that we have a HIND as well as Harriers.

Players will quickly learn that Iron Sights are going to rule on that map, and the AK's iron sights are super nasty. My squad managed to ambush a number of Brits yesterday that seemed to not have learned that lesson just yet. The fact that the island is so small means that combat is always going on, but the dense foliage means that vectoring in on it is difficult. Really forces you to pay attention.

The large number of boats led to some great chases too.

I really love the new trees / bushes / terrain pieces that came with this map. They could easily be used in a West Africa style map or something along those lines, and I feel they better simulated dense tropical jungle terrain than some of the older maps.

A+ Map, really enjoy it!

Posted: **2015-11-02 22:34**

My feedback for this map:
It's a good idea but it doesn't feel good for PR. The colors are too cartoony, the jets are really just there for dogfights which is fine. The vehicle warfare layer is bugged, it kills you in a jet after 10 sec out of bounds.

But the worst thing is that it drops performance. I have 60+ fps on other maps while here I can't get over 25 on the Island.

This map would be great with Chinese vs British with less objects on the island and a bit more realistic colors.

Posted: **2015-11-02 22:43**

You guys are treating this map like any other one, while you should rather see this as a seeding and fun map. It has everything for everyone, you can hop in and have awesome dogfights, epic naval battles or intense instand CQB INF action. Its for everyone and THE perfect map for seeding (or for after-party battles when the server is dying and low on players). The only thing that might need a change, are the tickets on STD. Too high for seeding, otherwise I love the map as a warm up for the usual PR maps when the servers is filled.

Posted: **2015-11-02 23:39**

Right guys a quick heads up on a few things I've fixed with this map for the upcoming hotfix.

- Fixed the British Land Rovers not spawning at Kingston 5mins after its capped.
- Fixed the Vehicle Warfare layer jet combat zone bug (little bit of missing code the editor deleted and I forgot to put back in...)
- Added a Vehicle Depo and Logi Truck (max of 2) for both teams at their 2nd beach flag, with a 10min delayed spawn.
- Removed the "Enter Boats on Spawn", Spawns and for Russia I've got the players spawning on the beach with a few supply crates to grab weapons off of, and for the British I've gone for the "BF1942" style of strapping the boats onto the side of the carrier and they drop to the ground only once you engage the boats engines.

PatrickLA_CA wrote:The colors are too cartoony

Maybe I'm not seeing quite the same thing you guys are but I don't think the colours are not too far off the real Jamaica?

PatrickLA_CA wrote:This map would be great with Chinese vs British with less objects on the island and a bit more realistic colors.

Don't see what China can really offer that the Russians can't other than a much better selection of helicopters with the Zhi-9 Series and Zhi-8KA on top of the Mi-17. QBZ-95 is nice ye but AK has more power

Posted: **2015-11-03 00:59**

loved it. it's a great addition. vw layer is excellent to just have available, and again i wish someone put up a dedicated server for this as i said back in falklands. the brit carrier was a cluster, of course it was 48v48 at the time. the harrier v mig is not a bad matchup in my opinion. they'll pull away from the harrier, lets them extend fast... but the harrier wins in the turning fight. i didn't lose any turning fights, so the good migs pulled away, or shot and ran. fun cat and mouse. never had any performance issues at all

rhino i really appreciate the shit you do haha, this is your work again? i remember those falkland vw rounds we got in on the low pop servers, can't wait for that to come back around again. they were just fun to play whenever i saw the chance.

Posted: **2015-11-03 01:55**

IMO the beaches are too yellow and there are too many trees which cause very low fps when on the Island. If that can be improved I think it will be a very fun map to play. Maybe add a SAM site on the island which can be captured and operated by a team?

Posted: **2015-11-03 08:55**

fps drops when looking at the jungle from distance.

also infy gameplay on the middle flag is amazing but you have camp and wait untill the enemy fire his gun and reveal his position(hide and seek) which is fun

over all it a good map both for air and infy,i think APC and LAV going to have a hard time to fight in this map !

but please FIX FPS drop issue

Posted: **2015-11-03 10:50**

I might be able to optimize things a little further with making more LODs for trees that don't have

Wait, some of your overgrowth doesn't have lods????? how does that even work?

Posted: **2015-11-03 11:56**

Cheers guys

dysin wrote:the brit carrier was a cluster, of course it was 48v48 at the time.

Ye the VW Layer is more of a seeding layer for maps than anything else but I have plans for PR:Falklands to make it easier to play its VW layer with more players

dysin wrote:rhino i really appreciate the shit you do haha, this is your work again? i remember those falkland vw rounds we got in on the low pop servers, can't wait for that to come back around again. they were just fun to play whenever i saw the chance.

Ye this is my work and since the VW mode worked so well with PR:F I I applied what I had learnt from that to this but on a slightly smaller scale

PatrickLA_CA wrote:IMO the beaches are too yellow

Ye I agree, beaches are too yellow, spotted that too late and can't be asked to change it at this point, might do in time but ye, not a really big deal IMO.

Ts4EVER wrote:Wait, some of your overgrowth doesn't have lods????? how does that even work?

Basically traditionally in BF2 as I'm sure your aware, there are really three main LODs in Overgrowth in two separate mesh files.

There is normally a LOD0 and LOD1 mesh in the primary mesh file, with LOD0 only ever seen by high gfx users, and LOD1 only ever seen by low gfx users, and like in this case, LOD1 isn't even optimized at all and is just a waste of mesh memory, and in some cases the primary mesh doesn't have any LOD1 and as such low gfx users use the LOD0 mesh.

Then in the secondary "_lod" mesh, there is a single lod that at a set distance depending on the map setting, is swapped with the primary mesh though a fade transition.

This works fine for normal BF2 maps with their low view distance but with PRs high view distance, the transitional fade between the primary and _lod meshes, which while this is happening, means there is actually two trees for every one which is changing, not only seriously increasing the amount of draw call the clients CPU and GPU have to process, but also strains the GPU with a load of overdraw on the transparent materials...

As such ditching the BF2's traditional Overgrowth method by instead having all the trees in the staticobjects.con with the line "Object.isOvergrowth 0" under each OG object which stops the OG object from using the normal OG settings and the fade transition from the main mesh to the _lod mesh really helps a lot with performance. Not only that but this also allows you to have individual cull distances settings for each OG object so you no longer have to have tiny bushes drawing all the way out to the edge of the view distance and instead can cull them at a few hundred meters, seriously cutting the work load with long view distances.

The problem with doing this is that naturally, BF2's Overgrowth was not setup with this system and as such, doesn't have the full set of LODs you really want on the primary mesh (which is the only mesh used now) to make it as easy as possible to draw the OG over at a distance. That palm tree I posted above is still 352 tris with two materials if your 5m away, or 500m away....

As such for some of the higher poly trees I did make a full set of LODs for them which did help with performance quite a bit:

But naturally this takes quite a bit of time to do and I haven't had time to do them for all the OG objects, only done them for a select few and as such, at most some trees only have a slightly optimized LOD1 which high GFX users see from a few meters away, and low gfx users see when up close or far away.

Posted: **2015-11-03 16:46**

sweedensniiperr wrote:I also have to agree that the map feels a little "out of place". Not that big of a deal for me honestly. I really like that there's so much mushrooms The one big thing however for me is the performance. I have pretty good computer and as of now this map is the only that can actually go down 20-30fps at certain places when looking into the island. And I run most maps around 40-80(map dependet alot). Other than that not much about the map itself.

Hind spawn on beginning? Reasoning? If he's lucky he literally rape all incoming GBs for the first 10minutes. BRDM for russians? Is that because brits have better HAT..?

I can see why you wanted the direct spawn in on boats but I don't really like it since you aren't actually guaranteed to spawn in with your squad. Sure you can stop and switch seats but then the point is even more proven that there could just as easily be a regular spawn.

I also have big fps drop when I am flying into the island .
Yesterday I played Operation Soul Rebel , I really like this map. I spawn on the US carrier and take one of transport helicopters and everything was fine. I started flying towards the island and then a big fps drop started and I crashed the helicopter in front of the lighthouse. A minute after I get the other transport helicopter and when I flew over the island again the same FPS drop appear(about 6-7 fps) and I crashed again. I am not very good pilot

, but this FPS drop makes me worried. In the other maps I also have fps drop but it's not so much. I turned on my windows' at best performance settings and turned off all unnessessary programmes (windows button+R/msconfig/system configuration/services/hide all Microsoft services checked/disable all/apply/ok/restart now). Also I reduce view distance scale at minimum (50%) and also set my graphic properties (3D settings) at best performence so I don't think my Laptop can do better . Here are my laptop specs.

Code: Select all

System Information
------------------
  Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate  (6.1.7601)
      Architecture: 32-bit
   Current Culture: Bulgarian (Bulgaria)
       Motherboard: LENOVO 7661FN6
         Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     T7300  @ 2.00GHz (Physical: 2, Logical: 2)
            Memory: 2,00 GB
      DIMM Modules: DIMM 1: 1024,00 MB @ 667 MHz
                    DIMM 2: 1024,00 MB @ 667 MHz
         Page File: 1,96 GB
    .NET Framework: 4.5.2, Runtime: 4.0.30319.34209

Display Information
-------------------
 Display Device(s): LCD 1280x800 on Mobile Intel(R) 965 Express Chipset Family
   Display Mode(s): 1280 x 800 (32 bit) @ 60 Hz
    Driver Version: 8.15.10.1930
    Display Memory: 384,00 MB
     Multisampling: 
               DPI: 96 (100%)

Audio Information
-----------------
  Primary Playback: Speakers (SoundMAX Integrated D
 Primary Recording: Microphone (SoundMAX Integrated
  Open AL Renderer: Software
               EAX: True
           EAX 1.0: False
           EAX 2.0: True
           EAX 3.0: False
           EAX 4.0: False
           EAX 5.0: False
             X-RAM: False

Disk Information
----------------
      Install Path: C:\Program Files\Project Reality\Project Reality BF2
                    Free: 1,83 GB, Total: 43,85 GB, FS: NTFS, SSD: False
          Mod Path: C:\Program Files\Project Reality\Project Reality BF2\mods\pr
                    Free: 1,83 GB, Total: 43,85 GB, FS: NTFS, SSD: False
     Profiles Path: C:\Users\pc\Documents\ProjectReality\Profiles
                    Free: 1,83 GB, Total: 43,85 GB, FS: NTFS, SSD: False
    Update DL Path: C:\Users\pc\AppData\Local\Project Reality\Project Reality BF2\Downloads
                    Free: 1,83 GB, Total: 43,85 GB, FS: NTFS, SSD: False
   Update Log Path: C:\Users\pc\AppData\Local\Project Reality\Project Reality BF2\UpdateLogs
                    Free: 1,83 GB, Total: 43,85 GB, FS: NTFS, SSD: False

Game Information
----------------
    Installed Mods: pr
       Current Mod: pr
           Version: 1.3.5.0
        PR Version: 1.3.5.0
          Language: english
   Debug Available: False
     Large Address: False
Supported Hardware: None

Profile Information
-------------------
      Profile 0001: =BG=BladeNakamura
              Type: Online
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        View Intro: False
        Fullscreen: True
      Display Mode: 1280x800@60Hz
Display Mode Valid: True
   Graphics Scheme: Low
     Multisampling: Off
             VSync: False
   Terrain Quality: Low
   Effects Quality: Low
  Geometry Quality: Low
   Texture Quality: Low
  Lighting Quality: Low
   Dynamic Shadows: Low
    Dynamic Lights: Low
 Texture Filtering: Low
    Audio Provider: Software
    Provider Valid: True
     Audio Quality: Low
               EAX: True

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