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Will Type 27 Frigate be first big boat in PR?And is it finished?

Its a Type 21 Frigate, yes it will be the first big ship in PR and no, it isn't finished yet, still got quite a lot of texturing, exporting and coding work still.

Great !, hope it's not symmetrical with the FV101 , and speaking in numbers were about 12 panhards against 4 scorpions in falklands , I think we could have 2 panhard against 1 FV -101 ?

A doubt , the gun 2A28 73mm bmp -1 fires about 400 m / s with simulated ballistic curve, while the 76mm l23 the FV101 fires about 500 m / s ( support weapon as bmp -1 ) why does not have a simulated ballistic curve ?

One thing to note is that I have not found ammunition APDS or APFSDS to l23 are not sure if currently produced for these weapons , but I believe in the war of the Falkland FV101 were equipped only with HE, HESH, smoke-producing, canister and ilumination ammunition.

blayas wrote:Great !, hope it's not symmetrical with the FV101

Well the Scorpion has a 76mm Gun and the AML-90 has a 90mm gun so the AML-90 already had the advantage in weaponry. Then lets not forget the AML-90 is also faster (at least on road, off-road very much depends on the terrain) and is also somewhat a smaller target than the Scorpion too, with also in some places having thicker armour than the Scorpion too. So putting one up against the other the AML-90 still comes out a bit on top although it is really going to come down to how its used ingame to which one will win head to head.

blayas wrote:and speaking in numbers were about 12 panhards against 4 scorpions in falklands , I think we could have 2 panhard against 1 FV -101 ?

The British also has 4x FV107 Scimitars with the 4x FV101 Scorpions, + a FV106 Samson Recovery Vehicle, although they should have really brought two of them

Its also worth noting that the AML-90s hardly came out of Port Stanley during the Falklands War and I've only got one ref which is on page 24 of this book that says that there was only one encounter of the Scorpion/Scimitars with the AML-90s during the battle of Wireless Ridge and they took pretty heavy casualties when trying to counter-attack it after the battle too : https://books.google.com.au/books?id=At ... &q&f=false

I won't totally rule out having an offset balance of AML-90s to the Scorpion/Scimitar but if I do, it will be down to mostly how much of an effect the Frigate has against ground forces which we have yet to really test, which the Argies are going to have many more bomber jets as it is to counter it, which can easily be turned on the ground forces, especially if the Frigate is sunk.

Another thing to note is that I don't want to put too much armour on this map, its mainly a Jet and Infantry map, but for the Large layer one thing I might do is have 2x AML-90s vs 1x Scorpion + 1x Scimitar.

blayas wrote:A doubt , the gun 2A28 73mm bmp -1 fires about 400 m / s with simulated ballistic curve, while the 76mm l23 the FV101 fires about 500 m / s ( support weapon as bmp -1 ) why does not have a simulated ballistic curve ?

Since the Falklands has such a large VD we should probably look into giving them a realistic round drop, just on other maps where the VD is only 1km tops, its not really worth it.

blayas wrote:One thing to note is that I have not found ammunition APDS or APFSDS to l23 are not sure if currently produced for these weapons , but I believe in the war of the Falkland FV101 were equipped only with HE, HESH, smoke-producing, canister and ilumination ammunition.

The High-explosive Squash Head (HESH) is its Anti-Tank round of the Scorpion, which is a "type of explosive ammunition that is effective against tank armour and is also useful against buildings". It isn't as effective at defeating tank armour as APDS, hence why the Challenger 2s main AT round is the APDS but its still a useful all-rounded round which is very useful against bunkers/buildings which is why the Challenger 2 still uses it today even and as per this video, is still effective vs APCs. Since the AML-90 has pretty thin armour (compared to a MBT) a HESH round is the perfect type round to go up against it to do the most damage.

I know What do I'm going to talk now can be treated a bit like off topic, but it comes about FV101.
I continued to look for sources that indicate the APDS production for l23 73mm and found nothing, making it convincing that the only ammunition with anti-tank capacity has the FV101 is `` HESH`` even in the present day ( I know many have been converted to 90mm guns too) but considering that the FV101 used by mec in PR are those acquired by jordan and everyone is version l23, the presence of APDS ammunition in them is incorrect. (can be seen on any map with the FV101 mec).

?Another interesting feature that I found on the fv's101 is that according to this site: Army Guide, is that the Jordanians have equipped their vehicles with day and night fighting capability, riding a fire control with thermal sight:

''The Upgraded Scorpion Has Been fitted with the Thales Mithras thermal fire-control system Which is based on the companies High Definition Thermal Imager (HDTI) product range.
The thermal camera is mounted on the right side of the mantlet (is present in PR model ) so That It is coaxial with the 76 mm gun. This can be used for reconnaissance and fire control purposes under day and night conditions.'``




The frigate will be multi- manned ? I find incredible the idea of ​​three or more people using a frigate systems in PR !

And received all his AA capacity ? With 2x 20 mm Oerlikon guns
1 x 4 -rail launcher for GWS - 24 Sea Cat
6 x LY- 60N Hunting Eagle SAM ( was equipped in Falkland , or was it later ? ), Very AA power, perfect for killing some birds

It will be possible to land a lynx on your deck ?
And the radar will work? It can be a valuable tool for cooperation and guidance to the CAS / jet squad

I need this D:

blayas wrote:but considering that the FV101 used by mec in PR are those acquired by jordan and everyone is version l23, the presence of APDS ammunition in them is incorrect. (can be seen on any map with the FV101 mec).

The MEC Scorpion is actually based on the Iranian version since they have 80 of them and they are now producing their own version of the FV101 Scorpion called the "Tosan tank" which is more or less exactly the same as the orignal Scorpion that was sold to them, without night scope, other than they also feature a few different versions of it with other turrets along with the normal 76mm turret and a supposed 90mm turret version (can't confirm it), as well as possibly a 30mm version too.

Normal Iranian Scorpion without night scope:




Tosan tank, in a few different configs:







It is also worth noting that like the version of the Scorpion sold the Iran (and Jordan in its orignal config) that didn't have a night sight is also how our one is ingame for the MEC:


Where the British Version in the Falklands has its night sight (to the right of its cannon):


Its also worth noting that the British no longer have the Scorpion, they where sold off long ago and we only the Scimitar which is why you don't see the British Scorpion on any modern maps.


But yes, we really should change the HUD to say "HESH" round in place of the "APSD" and also the coding of the round to make it do less damage vs strong armour, more damage vs light armour and also better vs. infantry and buildings but a little low on the priority list, but will add it to our to do list.

blayas wrote:Another interesting feature that I found on the fv's101 is that according to this site: Army Guide, is that the Jordanians have equipped their vehicles with day and night fighting capability, riding a fire control with thermal sight

According to my sources all Jordanian Scorpions where upgraded by JERSCO, replacing their 76mm guns with 30mm automatic guns, adding 4x AT-14 Kornet-E launchers on the side of the turret, as well as adding day/night sights (to some of them on that list bit and not on the normal block it would be mounted) and they look something like this, note it is still mostly the old Scorpion turret with the old night sight block and the coaxial MG hole has been blocked up etc:




We did consider making this for the MEC but decided that a fully automatic 30mm version, with 4x AT missiles was a little too much for a vehicle as small as this

blayas wrote:The frigate will be multi- manned ? I find incredible the idea of ​​three or more people using a frigate systems in PR !

And received all his AA capacity ? With 2x 20 mm Oerlikon guns
1 x 4 -rail launcher for GWS - 24 Sea Cat
6 x LY- 60N Hunting Eagle SAM ( was equipped in Falkland , or was it later ? ), Very AA power, perfect for killing some birds

It will be possible to land a lynx on your deck ?
And the radar will work? It can be a valuable tool for cooperation and guidance to the CAS / jet squad

Yes, each weapons system on the Frigate will have its own player seat requiring a player to use it, and yes it will have all the weapons it had during the Falklands War, which doesn't include the LY-60N Hunting Eagle SAM which is a Chinese weapons system based/inspired by the American AIM-7 Sparrow missile system.

It will also be possible to take off and land the Lynx on the flight deck, shot during testing of that in an early version quite a few months ago:


and how the radar will work you will have to wait and see as we are trying out lots of ideas on it and we have yet to see what works well gameplay wise and may not have any kind of radar system if nothing works out well.

Amazing stuff, thank Rhino.

Then considering the systems of the frigate, it will be operated for 5 players?


Something very interesting would be the ability to shoot down the exocet considering it was a relatively slow missile , would be an addition and both the active defense capability of the frigate in contrast with chaffs liabilities, while a challenge for operators of AA guns , it would be possible in PR?

Once last question , will be added the realistic AA ability to Vickers Mark 8 gun ?

I think I'm asking too much ... but the subject is very exciting !

That Frigate, awesommmmeeee!



Dj.

Cheers

blayas wrote:Then considering the systems of the frigate, it will be operated for 5 players?

Currently its 5 but might make it 4, since we want as few people as possible taken away from the front lines but at the same time, want to make it work well and also not have any single role being boring which the main gun might be at times since we plan on giving it very little ammo so its not overused and just spammed the entire time

blayas wrote:Something very interesting would be the ability to shoot down the exocet considering it was a relatively slow missile , would be an addition and both the active defense capability of the frigate in contrast with chaffs liabilities, while a challenge for operators of AA guns , it would be possible in PR?

Technically its not possible to destroy projectiles on the Refractor Engine (current version at least), BUT there is one thing that might allow us to do it but then again, this could cause serious server strain at the same time and right now, its just a theory and hasn't had any testing

blayas wrote:Once last question , will be added the realistic AA ability to Vickers Mark 8 gun ?

Simple answer, no. Ignoring the fact that its not going to have anything like the same ballistics it dose in r/l since in r/l, it has a max range of 22km (27.5km with "extended range" rounds but these came after the Falklands War) which would mean you can hit even the Argentine Airbase from the British Carrier with the scale of the map ingame. But the main problem is that in r/l, a radar could lock onto a missile, or any aircraft for that matter, then a targeting computer can calculate the firing solution in a split second and have the gun automatically fire with that solution, where with the BF2 engine, we really can't come even come close to being able to simulate that

Mr.VdHeide wrote:That Frigate, awesommmmeeee!

Wait till you see it fully textured, that is just a flat colour there for the most part

interesting!

Sorry I was not being specific , what do I want to say `` realistic`` , is whether this cannon will have the same rate of fire of true and can be equipped with AA ammunition that has a proximity fuze , whereas the operator cannon would need to be skilled to hit agile aircraft in PR since he would not have fire control assistant at your disposal.

It will have the same rate of fire as r/l, which is 25 rounds per min and will have the same max/min elevations (of -10 / +55 degrees) + a 360deg rotation (although if it shoots backwards it will hit the ship and will cause it serious damage).

I'm unaware of any Proximity fused ammunition for the Vickers 4.5" Mk8 Naval Gun, the only ammunition I'm aware of is HE, Chaff and Startshell, and later on after the Falklands War HE-ER (extended range, which I mentioned in my last reply).

As such like in r/l, you will have to get a direct hit to kill, which is tricky in r/l but even more so ingame and its probably going to be next to impossible to hit a jet tbh.

Searching further , I found that there was no specifies AA ammunition, actually the ammunition HE was used with multifunction fuzes , including mechanical timing and Proximity fused AA function, This is excencial for a weapon as described multifunction`` including anti-missile and AA functions.

``The HE round is used for both air and surface action with the fuze mode selected electronically just prior to ramming. Two fuze types were originally provided, N7 (mechanical time) and N97 (multirole: direct action, proximity low or high altitude and post-impact delay). These have been joined by the UA 3345 Proximity Fuze, which is a derivative of the UA 3018 fuze used in projectiles for the 76.2 mm Compact.``

What did you think now Rhino ? We could see the Mk8 helping its smaller 20mm peers?

Interesting, I had missed that and surprisingly nothing mentioned on it in my other sources but ye, see where you found it which is one of the most detailed sources I have on the gun.

Will look into it but still, even with a proximity round not sure how effective its going to be vs aircraft

So would the frigate be a claimable asset? And if you made a squad for the frigate would that also include the lynx on the back so you know when to slow down for the lynx to land?

LiamNL wrote:So would the frigate be a claimable asset? And if you made a squad for the frigate would that also include the lynx on the back so you know when to slow down for the lynx to land?

Well that's really for players and server admins to decide but I would recommend that it is probably best for them to be in the same squad since the Lynx can also do a little recon for the Frigate, as well as like you said, let it know when its coming in for a landing but there is no need for slowing down, main thing is to sail in a straight line and for the other slots to be taken up by at least one spotter on the ground.

Another question, as there might be a night layout for the map, will the British get actual night vision goggles? As I can remember that that was one of the major advantages that the British had over the Argentinians.

British Infantry didn't have NVGs back in the Falklands War, nor did the Argentinians. Both sides had a few "Starlight" night scopes but these where not very common.

Shame, then it will just be 2 sides with FALs shooting everything around them in the dark.

Will you be able to walk on ship when it is moving? AFAIK you cant walk on ships in BF2 engine because it will kill you. How did you solved this problem?