Project Reality Forums

As title says. How in the hell is it fair to give the defending side mortars when all they have to do is sit in place, die, respawn, and repeat. While the attacking force counts their loses as enemy mortars fall on them. Devs you guys have seriously dropped the ball on this one. Bring them back.

I wonder what the reasons behind this change are.

Like it was not easy enough in most pubs to win insurgency game, teamstack and outrage of the ones playing as insurgents when getting dominated repeadetly, and add mortar in the mix for the attackers, and they can sit somewhere safe dropping iron across the map and randmly damaging buildings and caches without even seeing the fight. And in situation where cache is located and displayed a single mortar hit would kill it. Its more a balance issue and has nothing to do with RL. That is done often to give game modes and maps better GP.

Of course in ideal scenario you would have both teams cooperate perfetly and if INS team is up to any good, BLUFOR has very low chances of success. And that would give a nice fierce fight, but in most pub games that is not the case. I dont actually care much who will win at the end, if I had the nice teamwork game which lasted quite long. The best wins or losses are with low ticket count. I had 1-0 wins and losses, and that was fierce and awesome to have so much stalemate and tactics that actually teams are even and rounds last long.

I would remove any CAS as well or even made it infantry only layout with just light transports. Kind of combination of skirmish and insurgency.

Haven't seen BluFor win an INS map yet since the update.

wait what happened? what happened to mortars I was using them just today?

Chefmoto1 wrote:Haven't seen BluFor win an INS map yet since the update.

Same but in other way. Haven't seen OpFor wins an INS map yet since the update.

Mortars need targets. If there's red rhombus somwhere on the map, it's a good damn target. You don't even need to do anything, you just start to beat the hell of that rhombus and voila, done, another one is there. That's why BluFor get its mortars removed.

Brozef wrote:As title says. How in the hell is it fair to give the defending side mortars when all they have to do is sit in place, die, respawn, and repeat. While the attacking force counts their loses as enemy mortars fall on them. Devs you guys have seriously dropped the ball on this one. Bring them back.

An organized civi squad will get your mortar shooters kicked from server.

Unlike AAS, the attackers in Insurgency have a deadly accurate marker saying were the enemy are and the game-mode itself "demands" the defenders to be quite near to that marker.
This leads to several rounds were the attackers just need to spam the marker to have cheap kills and there aren't civilians in every faction, for example, talibans.

To add to what Turista says, mortars are a supporting role in PR. In AAS (specially with the pre-v1.0 mortar requests) you need SLs to tell you where fobs are, where infantry is, where smoke is needed, etc... In Insurgency you obviously can provide support with mortars on fobs, SPG's, ... but mostly you just fire away at the cache to get free intel and kills. There is no need for actual searching for targets or anything and doesn't add additional teamwork to the team. If we wanna 'fix' insurgency this is one of the requirements as it just makes it stupid for insurgents to defend certain caches with blufor mortars.

[R-DEV]Mineral wrote:To add to what Turista says, mortars are a supporting role in PR. In AAS (specially with the pre-v1.0 mortar requests) you need SLs to tell you where fobs are, where infantry is, where smoke is needed, etc... In Insurgency you obviously can provide support with mortars on fobs, SPG's, ... but mostly you just fire away at the cache to get free intel and kills. There is no need for actual searching for targets or anything and doesn't add additional teamwork to the team. If we wanna 'fix' insurgency this is one of the requirements as it just makes it stupid for insurgents to defend certain caches with blufor mortars.

+1. Was a good change.

[R-DEV]Mineral wrote:To add to what Turista says, mortars are a supporting role in PR. In AAS (specially with the pre-v1.0 mortar requests) you need SLs to tell you where fobs are, where infantry is, where smoke is needed, etc... In Insurgency you obviously can provide support with mortars on fobs, SPG's, ... but mostly you just fire away at the cache to get free intel and kills. There is no need for actual searching for targets or anything and doesn't add additional teamwork to the team. If we wanna 'fix' insurgency this is one of the requirements as it just makes it stupid for insurgents to defend certain caches with blufor mortars.

Exactly. And the only counter-strategy to that constant cache mortar barrage was to have a dedicated civi squad stay close to the cache and catch the enemy ordinance. None of this was particularly fun or engaging.

*thumbs up* for this change.

IMHO get rid of Mortars for the defenders as well. It's clear that INS is going to the path of "BLUFOR OP, nerf them some more guys".

Blufor is the opposite of OP on INS. We aren't 'nerfing' anything. We are improving gameplay for both teams. If you want to see everything in black and white, in OP and NERF then be my guest but that's pretty narrow minded view IMO for a complex game as PR...

[R-DEV]Mineral wrote:Blufor is the opposite of OP on INS. We aren't 'nerfing' anything. We are improving gameplay for both teams. If you want to see everything in black and white, in OP and NERF then be my guest but that's pretty narrow minded view IMO for a complex game as PR...

More a simple swingset, when a certain part complains, the other is happy, and it's just back and forth. Really 0.9 era INS with Incendiary grenades was the perfect balance between fun and getting dunked on.

Civis used as human shields -> community whines -> nerfed
Civis replace it with into moving APCs for martyrs -> community whines -> nerfed
MEINS takes to desperate measures using Skorpion + bino teams to massacre kids-> community whines -> nerfed
*Swing*
BLUFOR CAS gets work done -> community whines -> nerfed
BLUFOR using Mortars as a means to assault a cache with insurgents - > whines -> removed
BLUFOR APCs get tons of kills -> community whines -> turrets nerfed so they can't track moving cars

X-Alt wrote:More a simple swingset, when a certain part complains, the other is happy, and it's just back and forth. Really 0.9 era INS with Incendiary grenades was the perfect balance between fun and getting dunked on.

Civis used as human shields -> community whines -> nerfed
Civis replace it with into moving APCs for martyrs -> community whines -> nerfed
MEINS takes to desperate measures using Skorpion + bino teams to massacre kids-> community whines -> nerfed
*Swing*
BLUFOR CAS gets work done -> community whines -> nerfed
BLUFOR using Mortars as a means to assault a cache with insurgents - > whines -> removed
BLUFOR APCs get tons of kills -> community whines -> turrets nerfed so they can't track moving cars

CAS wasn't a BLUFOR thing; CAS was nerfed because it was game-breaking in AAS too. (before, the only counter to CAS is a better CAS squad because ground-based missiles were mostly useless)
Blufor mortar was also a source of civi-trolling; it wasn't so one-sided.
APC got a lot of buff last big patch with working smoke + thermals, plus splash on 12.7mm bullets. This nerf isn't unjustified even if intended.

Bluedrake42 wrote:wait what happened? what happened to mortars I was using them just today?

In case you haven't found out in the meantime, mortars for Blufor were removed on insurgency maps.

[R-CON]UTurista wrote:Unlike AAS, the attackers in Insurgency have a deadly accurate marker saying were the enemy are

Deadly accurate my *** I have seen many caches at least 100m from where they were shown on the map. The mortars were vital for killing hideouts without the mortars the insurgents have a limitless reinforcements and most maps don't allow for the Bluefor easily to move around on the ground.

On a side note if you really think they are OP then remove them for both sides.

at least read the code before you make statements like that :s Maximum difference between marker and cache is 75m.

We didn't say they were OP, they just weren't serving their purpose as they should in PR as support role. The insurgents mortars on the other hand do IMO. So I personally don't see a reason to remove them for that same reason...

Brozef wrote:the insurgents have a limitless reinforcements and most maps don't allow for the Bluefor easily to move around on the ground

IMO this is usually the fault of Blufor tactics and not the game meta. For some reason, most of the time Blufor squads rush straight to the cache and get bogged down against said endless waves of insurgents.

What they really should be doing is flanking around first, taking out the hideouts and setting up a perimeter. Once the area is locked down, with squads overlooking the cache area and armor cutting off enemy reinforcements, some guys can go search for the cache.





Squad 1 builds and mans FOB with TOW and .50 cals. Starts suppressing cache area with heavy fire.
Squad 2 flanks all the way around to the west to suspected hideout location and takes it out.
Squad 3 flanks around to the west and holds position west of the cache. Sets up perimeter west cache.
Squad 4 flanks around to the east, takes out suspected hideout and sets up perimeter south south-east of cache.
Squad 5 armor squad sets up south of the cache and cuts off enemy reinforcements coming from afar.
--> Squad 1 and 2 are now free to assault the cache location with relative ease.

Brozef wrote:the insurgents have a limitless reinforcements and most maps don't allow for the Bluefor easily to move around on the ground.

It's not that hard to take down a hideout, especially when insurgents can't build many defensive weapons.