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Okay I come here peacefully (kinda) and I don't want to shit on anybody's hard work or whatever but. I feel like you guys couldn't give two ***** about the jets and the way they handle in game. They need to be revamped please and retested because the changes for the most party are okay but they have glaring issues. Issues I believe Myself and Many others who used to (and yes people actually stopped flying because of it), and the people who fly CAS have gripes with. Now I don't know if you guys just decided to release the physics without i dunno, maybe having people that actually fly a **** ton of CAS test it out beforehand. Perhaps It's an Issue with the amount of Details and Fine tuning that can be Put into the actual Jet Physics itself. Anyway here are some problems with the new flight model.

First Of all There is a sway when turning jets. For example If the F-15, the most unstable jet in the game atm. It's literally unflyable you try to turn it to the left and it turns to the right. This sway is common within all jets, but for some reason its more common within the f-15 and this is what makes it soo horrible to fly. I don't know who thought that it was a good idea that jets sway the opposite direction in which you try to fly. Sadly this is unrealistic and I don't quite see the point in doing this. When a jet is turned to the left or the right it goes into the direction easily even when yanked hard. Please fix this issue as it is just that an **issue** not a part of flight model and it is not a mechanic that is realistic in anyyy wayyy.

Another Problem I'd like to bring forth from my point of view is the way that certain jets are able to turn and speed maintenance. This one is more of an opinion and a suggestion more than anything else. If it is possible would it not be more realistic to have some sort of Speed maintenance within PR?. For instance an f-16s tightest turn radius is achieved at maintaining a speed of 350-440 knots within a merge. This is done by using air brakes (to not become too fast and turn farther which allows the enemy jet to get within its turn circle) and also the management of afterburner. I suppose that Speed should be actively dropping while doing a hard turn for long periods of time. The only time I believe that speed should be maintained is during straight and level flight. Bigger jets such as (All two seaters or ground attack jets) should bleed more speed and energy than that of their fighter jet counterparts. Each Jet should have a speed which incorporates their Tightest and fasted turn circle. This would alleviate the Issue of Certain jets being more OP than Some like the f-16 is now. In doing so everything would be balanced, and more skill oriented.

For the Most part These are my only gripes, and recommendations. Again This post is Meant in no way to disrespect the devs of the jet physics. But I feel more needs to be done in refining this aspect of the game. More testers who actually fly Jets in game would be a welcomed change as we usually spend countless hours doing so. *I registered for testing 3 months ago never got a reply* *cough cough*. I only wish you guys cared about the jets like you do the armor.

gets entire jet rework

feedback: you don't care about jets



You get people to instantly stop reading that way FYI.

'[R-DEV wrote:Mineral;2153552']gets entire jet rework

feedback: you don't care about jets



You get people to instantly stop reading that way FYI.

the rework has made the jets shittier than what they were before is what he is trying to say, which gives off the impression that you just dont give a shit lol...
also whats up with missile spam and re-directs that need fixing?

'[R-DEV wrote:Mineral;2153552']gets entire jet rework

feedback: you don't care about jets



You get people to instantly stop reading that way FYI.

I think i said multiple times over i mean no disrespect, but a little testing would've uncovered these issues easily. Thats the only thing that peeves me I see the work you guys put into everything else and then when it comes to CAS it just falls short a bit (in terms of refinement).

I respect the amount of work put into the new physics, but I'd appreciate it if the devs took the feedback seriously instead of shitposting.

I love everything about these physiks. Everyting. The balancing is really well done now.

The only thing I could complain is that the ger tornado did not deploy its wheels when landing... twice
But that might have been my mistake.

About the sway: I like it It adds another mechanic that makes it harder to controll the jet. The harder the better

About the 2nd point: It would destroy the dogfighting again. Currently, the differences between jets are so light, that you dont really feel them anymore (unless you are me ofc ), so all jets can kinda compete with each other (jets of the same role). Also, the dogfights are way more dynamic now. You have less of these simple turn fights now and more scissoring, head-to-head and whatever... but less circling until someone is on the back of the other jet. This feature would probably take some of these dynamics and bring us back to that old turn fighting with you knowing in the beginning who is going to win it (example: 1.3 MiG-29).

Instead of complaining I suggest getting used to it. Most enemies have no clue about this and are not really used to these features. So it is pretty easy to establish supremacy, currently atleast.

About the redirek and the missile spam: From my point this happens less now? Missile spam makes the missiles simply drop and redirek got mostly fixed. Or am I wrong?

ONLY problem for me is about losing controls when you are turning. (NOT ALL JETS HAVE THIS PROBLEM).

Deadmanfoot wrote:Now I don't know if you guys just decided to release the physics without i dunno, maybe having people that actually fly a **** ton of CAS test it out beforehand.

If I'm not mistaken, Danesh and myself were whoring CAS for years before you started playing, and Chuva is hardly a noob either. Not everything's perfect(we don't have infinite time/patience), but it's hardly enough to justify a huge rant where the only actual problem you mention is an issue with one jet(F-15).
As with anything, if there's something not quite right, post some feedback, describe the problem in detail, and who knows, maybe it'll be changed.

Deadmanfoot wrote:[long unclear paragraph] This would alleviate the Issue of Certain jets being more OP than Some like the f-16 is now. In doing so everything would be balanced, and more skill oriented. [...]

Not sure what most of this is about, but this bit stikes me as a bit... I don't know.
You remember the old physics, right? Was that balanced? F-18 vs MiG-29?
It's the opinion of everyone I've heard from so far that it's WAY more balanced now than it was before, and it's not finished yet either.

With the exception of the F-15 thing, this isn't feedback, just a rant. Could've said the same thing in a handful of sentences without an allcaps title and all the hyperobole.

Defeft wrote:the rework has made the jets shittier than what they were before is what he is trying to say, which gives off the impression that you just dont give a shit lol...

Jets weren't exactly underpowered, so they hardly needed to be buffed. I don't see the problem, and personally much prefer CAS now, despite it being a little less easy to killwhore.

Defeft wrote:also whats up with [...] re-directs that need fixing?

If you have any ideas let the team know. If you have any solutions, even better!

Not sure what most of this is about, but this bit stikes me as a bit... I don't know.
You remember the old physics, right? Was that balanced? F-18 vs MiG-29?
It's the opinion of everyone I've heard from so far that it's WAY more balanced now than it was before, and it's not finished yet either.

Have you flown the f-16 as of late? On bijar or maybe on khami? The F-18 vs Mig still isn't fixed the mig still owns the f18... The F-16 is now the new mig btw. And my point about the whole speed thing imo would fix the issue with jets just magically having a ridiculous turn rate than others (f16,frogfoot,migs). Have you tried the migs on Hades lately? How they went from bricks to Outurning everything on the Brits side and the roles are now reversed? This is a rant maybe but you're still neglecting what I intended this to be. Suggestions were made and I stated my opinion on the state of the new Physics. It may seem ignorant to you guys but it's not hostility at all.

This release was just the first iteration, further tweaks and balancing will be made in the future.

If you have specific feedback about certain jets/balance in general just post it straight, don't hide it in a wall of text sandwiched by assumptions about our lack of caring and/or ulterior motives.

Deadmanfoot wrote:Okay I come here peacefully (kinda) and I don't want to shit on anybody's hard work or whatever but. I feel like you guys couldn't give two ***** about the jets and the way they handle in game.

I actually worked for nearly year to make jets even greater then they were

Deadmanfoot wrote: They need to be revamped please and retested because the changes for the most party are okay but they have glaring issues. Issues I believe Myself and Many others who used to (and yes people actually stopped flying because of it), and the people who fly CAS have gripes with. Now I don't know if you guys just decided to release the physics without i dunno, maybe having people that actually fly a **** ton of CAS test it out beforehand. Perhaps It's an Issue with the amount of Details and Fine tuning that can be Put into the actual Jet Physics itself. Anyway here are some problems with the new flight model.

Jets haven't changed much since... forever? F.e. it's been a 6 years from 0.9 version, and flight physics were remaining pretty much same over time up to 1.4. It's pretty obvious that many people got used to it, and can't accept heavy rework cause they have to get used to it again.

Deadmanfoot wrote: First Of all There is a sway when turning jets. For example If the F-15, the most unstable jet in the game atm. It's literally unflyable you try to turn it to the left and it turns to the right. This sway is common within all jets, but for some reason its more common within the f-15 and this is what makes it soo horrible to fly. I don't know who thought that it was a good idea that jets sway the opposite direction in which you try to fly. Sadly this is unrealistic and I don't quite see the point in doing this. When a jet is turned to the left or the right it goes into the direction easily even when yanked hard. Please fix this issue as it is just that an **issue** not a part of flight model and it is not a mechanic that is realistic in anyyy wayyy.

That's intended. Circle battles in older versions were just boring, so now it require some actual skills to not overturn.
Regarding F-15 cas - it has too high roll speed, and it's not intended, and being investigated among similar cases.

Deadmanfoot wrote: Another Problem I'd like to bring forth from my point of view is the way that certain jets are able to turn and speed maintenance. This one is more of an opinion and a suggestion more than anything else. If it is possible would it not be more realistic to have some sort of Speed maintenance within PR?. For instance an f-16s tightest turn radius is achieved at maintaining a speed of 350-440 knots within a merge. This is done by using air brakes (to not become too fast and turn farther which allows the enemy jet to get within its turn circle) and also the management of afterburner. I suppose that Speed should be actively dropping while doing a hard turn for long periods of time. The only time I believe that speed should be maintained is during straight and level flight. Bigger jets such as (All two seaters or ground attack jets) should bleed more speed and energy than that of their fighter jet counterparts. Each Jet should have a speed which incorporates their Tightest and fasted turn circle. This would alleviate the Issue of Certain jets being more OP than Some like the f-16 is now. In doing so everything would be balanced, and more skill oriented.

It's actually ingame now. Can't remember exact values, but jets on 90% speed without AB turning better than on 110% with AB f.e.
I for sure could make jets bleed even more energy, but that would be too dramatic change that out of scale for this game.

CAS_ual_TY wrote: The only thing I could complain is that the ger tornado did not deploy its wheels when landing... twice
But that might have been my mistake.

Should be, i've been paranoid on tests to make sure that landing gears will come out even on silent eagle airbases.

Deadmanfoot wrote:Have you flown the f-16 as of late? On bijar or maybe on khami? The F-18 vs Mig still isn't fixed the mig still owns the f18... The F-16 is now the new mig btw.

All fighters using same flight model. Kinda fun to read such statements knowing that all values are identical

That's intended. Circle battles in older versions were just boring, so now it require some actual skills to not overturn.
Regarding F-15 cas - it has too high roll speed, and it's not intended, and being investigated among similar cases.

Regardless of Boring Every time you Initiate a dogfight it shouldn't end up being a rolling scissor or a flat scissor. Scissors in a dogfight is usually only initiated by the One defending not the aggressor. The scissor begins once the aggressor has overshot the defender and the defender forces him to overshoot during a scissor... Turn Fighting is boring but this is why I suggested the Speed and energy aspect. If each jet has the same model as you say then I assume they also have the same turn rate? If that what you're insinuating. Then could you not modify how tight they turn once maintaining certain speed parameters? You say you could modify the bleed more so why not try it then? The Physics have already been changed drastically in my opinion so why not experiment?
Btw I still didn't knock your work.

We have a jet feedback thread, so go there: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f254-v ... 1-4-a.html