Project Reality Forums

I swear to God I searched before posting this.

Since the USMC transitioned its ARs to the M27 (with SAWs still available at commander's discretion) and an M27 model already made by the community, any chance we could see this ingame in the future, maybe with the SAW as an alternate kit?

On a slightly different note I think the Mk12 as a squad level DMR was also retired for the M27IAR with a scope.

There's a reasonable chance you'll see it in the future.

Rabbit, that's exactly the resource I was looking at before. And yes I believe the Mk12 was replaced by the M27 also.

Camo, how might that work with the SAW? Each company still has six of them, vs 28 of the M27. If the SAW is kept as an alternate kit, then would it always have an ACOG? What if someone wanted irons? Or vice versa? The SAW and M27 are supposed to use the same optic, which has a backup sight, but I don't think this is in PR.

The M27 is apparently going to replace the M4 also, for the USMC, which in turn replaced the M16. At that point (let's assume PR follows suit in real time) what advantage would an automatic rifleman have over anyone else? HK rifles are great and all, but it almost feels like they just replaced SAW gunners with riflemen and then gave everyone better rifles. No idea if the other M27s will be issued with bipods and SDO optics though. So would the AR kit end up being a rifleman who just carries a lot more ammo and a bipod?

On a related note, the Army is replacing M16s and M4s with the M4A1 (full auto instead of burst). This could be a welcome change, but some of the reasons for it don't apply to PR (inconsistent trigger pull issues because of the cam system for burst fire, etc). Might we also see this coming sometime in the future?

This might be treading into suggestions territory but I thought it wouldn't be right to make a new thread, please move it if appropriate. Just my opinion, I would like to see PR replace all the USMC M4/16 family with the M27 (except for crew, engineers, and so on) for "non-historic maps" like Muttrah etc, and the older kits for other maps. And trade the Army's M4s for M4A1s, maybe with a slight improvement to range and accuracy to account for improvements in ammunition. USMC ARs should have a M27 with bipod and extra ammo, with an alt SAW kit. Marksmen should have the M27 with a scope Not sure how the Marines do it, but when I was in the Army, our medics also carried M9s in addition to M4s.

Ragnarok1775 wrote:And trade the Army's M4s for M4A1s, maybe with a slight improvement to range and accuracy to account for improvements in ammunition.

M855A1? Highly debatable if its an actual improvement.

Rabbit wrote:M855A1? Highly debatable if its an actual improvement.

Maybe not, but that's why I say maybe.

i thing the solution is M27 with 60 rounds mag....or 150 rounds mag

BlackGus wrote:i thing the solution is M27 with 60 rounds mag....or 150 rounds mag

I think it was suggested or tried, but I don't know the results. It's kinda ironic that we went from a mag fed AR (the BAR) in WW2, to the M60 (which wasn't a SAW but was used like one, actually meant to fill a GPMG role) and to the SAW, and now going back to the mag fed AR (M27). Which really isn't all that different from the Russians with the RPKs, internally they are basically the same as the AK family but with some heavier parts for sustained automatic fire etc. 50-rd mags would probably be the best choice for the M27 and is similar to the RPK also.

Maybe try getting in that sexy new issued M17/SIGP320 for those US Army officer kits?



I'll be willing to give a little sucky sucky if someone could make one

Ragnarok1775 wrote:Camo, how might that work with the SAW? Each company still has six of them, vs 28 of the M27. If the SAW is kept as an alternate kit, then would it always have an ACOG? What if someone wanted irons? Or vice versa? The SAW and M27 are supposed to use the same optic, which has a backup sight, but I don't think this is in PR.

If and when the m27 gets introduced into PR it will probably replace the AR kit outright, moving the SAW to alt MG.

Ragnarok1775 wrote:The M27 is apparently going to replace the M4 also, for the USMC, which in turn replaced the M16. At that point (let's assume PR follows suit in real time) what advantage would an automatic rifleman have over anyone else? HK rifles are great and all, but it almost feels like they just replaced SAW gunners with riflemen and then gave everyone better rifles. No idea if the other M27s will be issued with bipods and SDO optics though. So would the AR kit end up being a rifleman who just carries a lot more ammo and a bipod?

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the USMC does it really, in the short term though we'll probably go with the m4 replacing the m16 until the m27 is fully rolled out.

Ragnarok1775 wrote:On a related note, the Army is replacing M16s and M4s with the M4A1 (full auto instead of burst). This could be a welcome change, but some of the reasons for it don't apply to PR (inconsistent trigger pull issues because of the cam system for burst fire, etc). Might we also see this coming sometime in the future?

Yeah quite possibly, although it will admittedly mess with balance a bit. The burst fire is a nice gameplay mechanic to keep it relatively balanced with the slower firing ak's/qbz's of OPFOR factions. But then again we have fully auto c7's in other factions so we should probably switch the m4 to an m4a1 on non historical maps.

Ragnarok1775 wrote:maybe with a slight improvement to range and accuracy to account for improvements in ammunition.

I've read the m855a1 has much more reliable fragmentation compared to older rounds, but given damage in this game is not randomized, with the exact same damage given each time i guess we already have this 'feature'. I don't think we'll touch range or accuracy unless it comes out to be significantly better. Probably won't even be able to tell the difference ingame anyway.

I personally would like to the the M27 as AR std, and ironsight m249 as AR alt, I think that would be a nice spread.

[R-DEV]camo wrote: I've read the m855a1 has much more reliable fragmentation compared to older rounds, but given damage in this game is not randomized, with the exact same damage given each time i guess we already have this 'feature'. I don't think we'll touch range or accuracy unless it comes out to be significantly better. Probably won't even be able to tell the difference ingame anyway.

Yes it is supposed to. However there are quite a few major issues involving accuracy with it. First it has a huge MOA issue, I've seen reports of anywhere from 4 to 5.5 MOA which is horrible. On top of this mother army was still sending units both M855 and M855A1 rounds, so each soldier gets a mixed batch meaning their rounds will land differently depending which bullet comes up, making it harder to zero your rifle.

Second a lot of rifles are not made to handle its power, hopefully the m4a1 conversion kits might fix this, but that means EVERY 5.56 rifle would need fixing, even the m27.

The problem, Marine officials have said, is that the newer round causes problems with the Marines' M27 Infantry Automatic Rifle, with tests indicating use of the round with the IAR results in reliability and durability issues.

https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/06/ ... -says.html

I hope this replaces SAW.
SAW is just way too op in few meter fights -.-

USMC Fields M38 Squad Designated Marksman Rifle - Soldier Systems Daily

Finally found photo proof after searching for awhile. The M27 IAR marksman variant has been designated the M38.

I believe the Mk12 is fully out of service for US forces now

LEGIYA wrote:I hope this replaces SAW.
SAW is just way too op in few meter fights -.-

High ROF on an Automatic weapon with a large ammo capacity? ARs will always dominate CQB, you just can't compete with that much firepower.

Murphy wrote:High ROF on an Automatic weapon with a large ammo capacity? ARs will always dominate CQB, you just can't compete with that much firepower.

The M27 is still an AR, just a replacement for the SAW. Think of it the same way as the Russian AR... internally their rifles and ARs are almost identical. They also use the same mags, though the AR is supposed to use the 45 round mag, which is also compatible with the AK. Russian grunts carry two of the larger mags I believe, to resupply the AR but it can still be used with the AK.

The M38 is also using the same scope as the Mk12.

I don't see a reason to add the M27 as anything but a DMR; the M249 outclasses it in every aspect except mobility - which PR doesn't model. So unless the Devs decide to nerf the USMC's infantry or the actual USMC makes a push to include more M27s per squad as another standard issue rifle, I doubt the M27 needs to be in PR.

Frontliner wrote:I don't see a reason to add the M27 as anything but a DMR; the M249 outclasses it in every aspect except mobility - which PR doesn't model. So unless the Devs decide to nerf the USMC's infantry or the actual USMC makes a push to include more M27s per squad as another standard issue rifle, I doubt the M27 needs to be in PR.

The M27 is going to replace the M4 which has all but replaced the M16. It's also more accurate and faster to reload. The SAW is still available at commander's discretion.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/newsle ... eplace-m4/

Frontliner wrote:I don't see a reason to add the M27 as anything but a DMR; the M249 outclasses it in every aspect except mobility - which PR doesn't model. So unless the Devs decide to nerf the USMC's infantry or the actual USMC makes a push to include more M27s per squad as another standard issue rifle, I doubt the M27 needs to be in PR.

You forgot that a M27IAR will also have shorter reload time, as well as more accuracy when shooting at full auto undeployed vs the M249. The M27IAR can also have the SDO, originally designed for the M249, which comes with a Trijicon RMR on top. The amount of mags carried should be more than a rifleman kit too. Hopefully this puts it somewhat on par with the 249 if it were to become the new automatic rifleman kit.

I agree, the M249 is better overall, but it's use in the USMC has greatly diminished in recent years, now only Machinegunners use them. This should be represented in PR. It should be used as an alternate kit alongside the M240B.

mini-rant about the "M240G"(I know it's called the M240G ingame, this is a mistake, it looks like the M240G because the heatshield is removed, which is typical for machinegunners to do so to reduce weight and make barrel changes more easily. The M240B is more popular today. The ability to control the gas settings has been removed, and the "M240Gs" have side rails ingame, making them M240Bs technically)

In the USMC today, while not the official service rifle, M27IARs are everywhere, this also should be represented in PR, having more M249s per map vs M27s doesn't properly represent the faction.

The M4 is now standard issue for infantry and combat positions as well (IMO the Modern USMC faction should have the M4 for all kits now, the transition to the M4 from the M16A4 for grunts was completed last year)

In the basic 4 man fireteam, the automatic rifleman carries the M27IAR. 1 for every 4 enlisted grunts now carry the M27. This position was traditionally held by the BAR, when the 4-man fireteam concept was developed.

On the other hand, perhaps the IAR should be an alternative Rifleman kit instead? In this way, we can have approx 1 out of 8 USMC units on the map at a given time have the M27