Project Reality Forums

I've been playing this game for years, but still haven't figured out the basic flag mechanics in AAS as they seem kinda convoluted.
If there's a definitive thread or guide on AAS, I couldn't find it.

Please have a look at the few questions that I have:

1. Can you stop enemy from capturing a neutral flag by outnumbering them when you don't have attack marker on it? For example, can you rush enemy's first flag and stop enemy's capture without killing them, just by your presence?
2. Someone told me that the capture progress on defense flag doesn't show to the defender. So if the enemy sneak two attackers inside cap zone, the single defender overwatching the cap status won't see the progress bar move until it's fully neutral. Is that true or not?
3. How do double neutrals work? Does the order of neutralization matter?
4. PR Manual states:

   If the attacking team doesn't have a 2 to 1 ratio to the defending team on the flag they will start losing the capturing progress.

   Does the rule still work when the flag becomes neutral? What if it is neutral from the start?
5. It also says:

   It can take more than a minute to secure a CP depending on the ratio of attackers to defenders within the flag radius.

   If there are no enemies, is capture time the same for any number of men greater than 1? In this case "ratio of attackers to defenders" is #DIV/0.

6. Although you cannot capture CPs out of order, you can begin to neutralize or capture the next CP forward before the current CP has finished capturing/neutralizing, even if you lose another position during the capture period.

   Does it mean that you can have 2 enemy flags neutralized at the same time? Never seen that happening.

If there's a source where I can look that up, please throw it at me, will be greatly appreciated.

Bonvi wrote:Can you stop enemy from capturing a neutral flag by outnumbering them when you don't have attack marker on it?

It should be yes, but that is hard to pull out.

Bonvi wrote:For example, can you rush enemy's first flag and stop enemy's capture without killing them, just by your presence?

You will get ban on most servers for that.

Bonvi wrote:Someone told me that the capture progress on defense flag doesn't show to the defender. So if the enemy sneak two attackers inside cap zone, the single defender overwatching the cap status won't see the progress bar move until it's fully neutral. Is that true or not?

Yes, it is true, but in practice you would need to kill all enemy defenders to even try to capture flag. There is really small number of flags in game where you can sneak in and stay unnoticed until you neutralize flag.

Bonvi wrote:How do double neutrals work? Does the order of neutralization matter?

Both teams attack and neutralize enemy flags. No.

Bonvi wrote:PR Manual states: "If the attacking team doesn't have a 2 to 1 ratio to the defending team on the flag they will start losing the capturing progress."

Does the rule still work when the flag becomes neutral? What if it is neutral from the start?

Pretty positive it does.

Bonvi wrote:It also says:It can take more than a minute to secure a CP depending on the ratio of attackers to defenders within the flag radius.

If there are no enemies, is capture time the same for any number of men greater than 1? In this case "ratio of attackers to defenders" is #DIV/0.

From my experience, i think more friendly players you have on flag, you capture that flag faster.

Bonvi wrote:Does it mean that you can have 2 enemy flags neutralized at the same time? Never seen that happening.

Only if we are talking about double or triple active flags, like on Omaha whit VN flags, but in normal flag layout no.

Infantry, thank you for your answers! If you could back them up with a replay/tracker demo of these things happening, that would be utterly amazing!

InfantryGamer42 wrote:

Bonvi;2201789 wrote: Can you stop enemy from capturing a neutral flag by outnumbering them when you don't have attack marker on it?

It should be yes, but that is hard to pull out.

InfantryGamer42 wrote:

Bonvi;2201789 wrote: For example, can you rush enemy's first flag and stop enemy's capture without killing them, just by your presence?

You will get ban on most servers for that.

I know about the rules, was asking about mechanics. The reason why it bothers me is that I used to send as few people as possible to back-cap the home flags (2 per flag) and put all the rest to the point of possible contact. So if you're right, I should reconsider using this strategy as it can be countered by sending a squad to my first (or second) flag.

InfantryGamer42 wrote:

Bonvi;2201789 wrote: Someone told me that the capture progress on defense flag doesn't show to the defender. So if the enemy sneak two attackers inside cap zone, the single defender overwatching the cap status won't see the progress bar move until it's fully neutral. Is that true or not?

Yes, it is true, but in practice you would need to kill all enemy defenders to even try to capture flag. There is really small number of flags in game where you can sneak in and stay unnoticed until you neutralize flag.

Or you could just outnumber them. The original idea was to leave just one guy on a flag itself to watch the cap status, and keep the rest of the squad nearby, building FOBs and looking for enemy's spawn points, ready to come back if the cap budges.
If you're right, this tactic won't work. But I have my doubts, as I've never seen my flag suddenly changing color.

InfantryGamer42 wrote:

Bonvi;2201789 wrote: How do double neutrals work? Does the order of neutralization matter?

Both teams attack and neutralize enemy flags. No.

Are you sure that after both active flags are neutral, both teams that can proceed to fully cap the flag? So the first team to complete capture will cancel other team's progress, right?

InfantryGamer42 wrote: From my experience, i think more friendly players you have on flag, you capture that flag faster.

InfantryGamer42 wrote:

Bonvi;2201789 wrote: Does it mean that you can have 2 enemy flags neutralized at the same time? Never seen that happening.

Only if we are talking about double or triple active flags, like on Omaha whit VN flags, but in normal flag layout no.

I'm pretty sure that's not what the manual says. Is it wrong then?

Bonvi wrote:Infantry, thank you for your answers! If you could back them up with a replay/tracker demo of these things happening, that would be utterly amazing!

I can only back them up whit my experience and what i saw since 1.3.

Bonvi wrote: I know about the rules, was asking about mechanics. The reason why it bothers me is that I used to send as few people as possible to back-cap the home flags (2 per flag) and put all the rest to the point of possible contact. So if you're right, I should reconsider using this strategy as it can be countered by sending a squad to my first (or second) flag.

Depends on map, flag layout and assets given to each team. Maps like Operation Falcon and Beirut give good ability to both teams to rush enemy 2nd flag, so sending 2 guys to back-cap on those maps is really bad idea in most games.

Bonvi wrote:Or you could just outnumber them. The original idea was to leave just one guy on a flag itself to watch the cap status, and keep the rest of the squad nearby, building FOBs and looking for enemy's spawn points, ready to come back if the cap budges.
If you're right, this tactic won't work. But I have my doubts, as I've never seen my flag suddenly changing color.

Again depends. They is really small number of flags on all maps in game where enemy squad can sneak in and hide without anybody noticing them or someone getting killed. In general, leaving 2 guys behind on flag and building 2 reserve FOBs around defending flag can be good idea, if done fast.

Bonvi wrote:Are you sure that after both active flags are neutral, both teams that can proceed to fully cap the flag? So the first team to complete capture will cancel other team's progress, right?

No, if both teams neutralize each other active flags, they will need to recapture there respective flag if they want to capture enemy flag and go to next one. Even if one team captures enemy active flag, but enemy team makes there active flag neutral few seconds before they finished capturing, that team will still need to recapture neutralized flag before they can attack next enemy flag in line and capture it.

InfantryGamer42 wrote: Depends on map, flag layout and assets given to each team. Maps like Operation Falcon and Beirut give good ability to both teams to rush enemy 2nd flag, so sending 2 guys to back-cap on those maps is really bad idea in most games.

Okay. Do you also need two "captors" for each such "rusher" to win the "tugging war" on your first/second flag? It wouldn't make sense to call the rushers a "defending team" as the flag was never theirs.

InfantryGamer42 wrote: No, if both teams neutralize each other active flags, they will need to recapture there respective flag if they want to capture enemy flag and go to next one. Even if one team captures enemy active flag, but enemy team makes there active flag neutral few seconds before they finished capturing, that team will still need to recapture neutralized flag before they can attack next enemy flag in line and capture it.

Agreed on that. What I've meant is: in a situation when the enemy has neutralized your flag and you have neutralized theirs, they can proceed capturing your flag. But can you start capturing theirs, or it becomes locked at neutrality?

Bonvi wrote:Okay. Do you also need two "captors" for each such "rusher" to win the "tugging war" on your first/second flag? It wouldn't make sense to call the rushers a "defending team" as the flag was never theirs.

Do not get what you mean. In general, Russian team can easy rush village and firebase flags whit 30 people, specially when they get two village flags that Netherlands team can not rush effectively. That leads to 3 squads whit APC support rushing Netherlands 2nd flag, while 2 squads are back capping. Same can happen if layer gives city flags as 2nd Russian flag, which Netherlands team can rush.

Bonvi wrote:Agreed on that. What I've meant is: in a situation when the enemy has neutralized your flag and you have neutralized theirs, they can proceed capturing your flag. But can you start capturing theirs, or it becomes locked at neutrality?

It depends when enemy neutralizes your flag. If you started capping flag before they neutralized yours, you can fully capture that flag. If they neutralized flag before you fully neutralized that flag, you will not be able to fully capture that flag until you recapture neutralized flag.

InfantryGamer42 wrote: Do not get what you mean.

I mean, if the enemy rushes your home flag with 2 people, you will need 2 * 2 = 4 people to back cap it without killing these 2, right?

But I think I get it now: in any case when you want to shift the flag in your favor (either enemy's to neutral or neutral to yours), you are considered an attacker and you need to outnumber the enemy by a factor of 2 on that flag, regardless of anything. It doesn't matter, if the flag was previously yours, enemy's or neutral from the start.

InfantryGamer42 wrote: It depends when enemy neutralizes your flag. If you started capping flag before they neutralized yours, you can fully capture that flag. If they neutralized flag before you fully neutralized that flag, you will not be able to fully capture that flag until you recapture neutralized flag.

That makes sense.

Funny thing I've noticed: in a double neutral the game doesn't show you the attack marker, but you can still cap the flag, like in this game. That might even confuse some people and make them leave the flag they were capping. Thanks for your help, Inf! That cleared some things. I would still like to test them on a training server sometime in the future to make sure, but it's more than good enough for now.

Bonvi wrote:I mean, if the enemy rushes your home flag with 2 people, you will need 2 * 2 = 4 people to back cap it without killing these 2, right?

But I think I get it now: in any case when you want to shift the flag in your favor (either enemy's to neutral or neutral to yours), you are considered an attacker and you need to outnumber the enemy by a factor of 2 on that flag, regardless of anything. It doesn't matter, if the flag was previously yours, enemy's or neutral from the start.

Yeah, that is right.

Bonvi wrote:That makes sense.

Funny thing I've noticed: in a double neutral the game doesn't show you the attack marker, but you can still cap the flag, like in this game. That might even confuse some people and make them leave the flag they were capping.

Spoiler for screenshots:

Most veteran players (usually squad leaders also) know this, so there is no place for confusion.

Bonvi wrote:Thanks for your help, Inf!

No problem mate.