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I think a kit that could be realistic as well as useful is a standard rifleman kit that carries 3-4 ammo bags instead of 1. They would only have 2/3 the amount of stamina (or even 1/2 depending on how many bags you want them to carry) as other kits (vBF2 had different stamina for different kits, so this should be doable), and would also only carry 1 smoke and 1 frag as opposed to 2. Maybe limit it to 4 being in play at a time. It would also not require a new kit texture, only changing the stamina and amount of equipment on the normal rifleman. Of course, you could also just borrow the more bulky AR kit texture but without the machine gun. Also require 5 people to be in the squad in order to select it.
With these requirements, I don't think this kit would unbalance things, as it creates a liability to your squad having someone move that slowly. It would also make it fairly undesirable to be the person moving that slowly, but carrying 4 ammo bags would be incredibly valuable when holding a position without support and without nearby crates. The 5 member squad minimum to request this kit also keeps it from being used in a lone wolf way with a HAT or AA kit, who often take jeeps with ammo crates anyway. I don't see it being used incredibly often, but there are some maps where it would be very nice to have someone carrying extra ammo for the whole squad.

BigBigMonkeyMan wrote:I think a kit that could be realistic as well as useful is a standard rifleman kit that carries 3-4 ammo bags instead of 1. They would only have 2/3 the amount of stamina (or even 1/2 depending on how many bags you want them to carry) as other kits (vBF2 had different stamina for different kits, so this should be doable), and would also only carry 1 smoke and 1 frag as opposed to 2. Maybe limit it to 4 being in play at a time. It would also not require a new kit texture, only changing the stamina and amount of equipment on the normal rifleman. Of course, you could also just borrow the more bulky AR kit texture but without the machine gun. Also require 5 people to be in the squad in order to select it.
With these requirements, I don't think this kit would unbalance things, as it creates a liability to your squad having someone move that slowly. It would also make it fairly undesirable to be the person moving that slowly, but carrying 4 ammo bags would be incredibly valuable when holding a position without support and without nearby crates. The 5 member squad minimum to request this kit also keeps it from being used in a lone wolf way with a HAT or AA kit, who often take jeeps with ammo crates anyway. I don't see it being used incredibly often, but there are some maps where it would be very nice to have someone carrying extra ammo for the whole squad.

Great idea. As for requestable, just don't know... How much is this thing gonna weigh for the crate? Like 3 rifleman kits?

Different stamina for different kits is a fantastic idea, idk why machine gunners are allowed to run as fast as alternative medics who just carry a binocular and a hook!

I'm not sure these runners should get all that much of a stamina penalty though. What I could see as possible solution, is having your runners to carry just a pistol - no shovel, no knife! And no frags for them too! Why would they have a frag on them? They could have smokes, that's sane though.

On a related topic, BigBigMonkeyMan you are gonna like this: https://monster.livejournal.com/40343.html
It's a German wheeled ammo cart. They had one for 30-50 people and also had a horse, but the cart could also be drawn by soldiers insted of a horse. Or by a motorcicle.

Imagine this in a game!

lao wrote:Great idea. As for requestable, just don't know... How much is this thing gonna weigh for the crate? Like 3 rifleman kits?

Different stamina for different kits is a fantastic idea, idk why machine gunners are allowed to run as fast as alternative medics who just carry a binocular and a hook!

I'm not sure these runners should get all that much of a stamina penalty though. What I could see as possible solution, is having your runners to carry just a pistol - no shovel, no knife! And no frags for them too! Why would they have a frag on them? They could have smokes, that's sane though.

Not letting them carry a rifle would mean nobody would ever use it, as I don't want to be caught in regular inf combat with just a pistol, nor would a SL sacrifice a spot in their squad for someone carrying only a pistol. Also not realistic. The shovel gives no combat advantage and most soldiers are equipped with it anyway so I don't see the reasoning with not giving them that either. The humvee/APCs serve the purpose of the ammo cart. Appreciate the input.

BigBigMonkeyMan wrote:Not letting them carry a rifle would mean nobody would ever use it, as I don't want to be caught in regular inf combat with just a pistol, nor would a SL sacrifice a spot in their squad for someone carrying only a pistol. Also not realistic. The shovel gives no combat advantage and most soldiers are equipped with it anyway so I don't see the reasoning with not giving them that either. The humvee/APCs serve the purpose of the ammo cart. Appreciate the input.

Oh yes they would. It just takes active usage of ammo hungry kits like MG and grenadier and SL will order one of his men take up this job, at least for some time during the round. This happens all the time with riflemen throwing bags at mortar pits for 60 minutes or medics not even getting to shoot.

as I don't want to be caught in regular inf combat with just a pistol

And you won't if you teamplay. There's gonna be that MG with 3 mags and that grenadier with 11 PGs. And a medic with 8 epipens. And LAT with 2 RPGs, too!
And if if your squad gets completely wiped, you might as well die together as they were obviously outnumbered and you are up against x6 of your firepower anyway)

nor would a SL sacrifice a spot in their squad for someone carrying only a pistol.

You ever played Vietnam maps or Insurgency mode, bro? It actually happens all the time.

The shovel gives no combat advantage and most soldiers are equipped with it anyway

But not everybody, and the thing IS heavy. Esp. for a guy with 40-50 killogramms of weight on his back (that 3 ammo bags weigh as much). This has to be a HIGHLY specialized kit.

The humvee/APCs serve the purpose of the ammo cart.

I wasn't claiming otherwise! However, this is unrealistic af: You can't drive a truck or humvee through a forest in any remotely realistic scenario, trust me. It also gives you away easily.

I also don't understand you arguing over it as if somebody from PR modders already jumped in and said "yes, we'll do that!"

I'm not arguing, just discussing some of the possible balance issues with the kit in the general modern maps and how it could best be implemented. Yeah Vietnam and WWII have different kit and weapon layouts than those, as would this kit if it was added I guess. Maybe it could be called machine gun assist and carry a pistol, but in the modern mobile infantry squad on something like Muttrah or Saaremaa, if I could choose having a member of my squad be ineffective beyond close range and not be able to put any fire on the enemy once my AR goes down or carry a regular rifleman kit and be able to take part in the battle, the normal rifleman kit would be the easy choice. As far as the shovel goes, if added, the kit would already have much lower stamina. If I wanted the stamina to be the same then losing the shovel, knife, grenades may be the right move.

Just let it be a rifleman kit with no frags, and 3 ammobags but with a less "all-rounder" rifle (If possible) Such as a PShh or a Simonov for milita isn't of AK, something along those lines for factions where they are possible.

Standard faction rifle with ironsights, 2 mags, 3 ammo bags, no field dressing, also the kit should cost slightly more when requesting from a crate. Even with the higher cost it will still be valuable as having 3 ammo bags means you will rearm 1 or 2 of them at a much faster rate then the rifleman

I like the concept but would this not turn into 'unlimitedsupply-man'?
With 1 ammo bag thrown it can reload its own ammo bags back to the full 3 (in this case of suggestion), as the cost of ammopoints would be 1/3 right?

So in an adventure where unlimitedsupply-man and a HAT guy go on a rampage, he can always help the HAT reload including himself, by reloading his bags...

A way to tackle this might be to give all 3 ammo bags a different slot perhaps?

If you give a regular rifleman more ammo bags it's obvious everyone would use this more often than regular rifleman (at least people who aren't lonewolfs). Just throw 3 bags for the squad and they will get more frags etc. than just from a rifleman with nades and one bag. So to balance it you need give them something different.

For example for WWII scenario you could get regular rifleman with rifle, nades and one ammo bag or ALT with pistol, smoke, maybe binos and more bags. So SL could have different options for different tactics. Long hold the objective - guy with more bags. Fast assault - guy with riffle and nades.

I see what you're saying so that could be an issue. Is that how the ammo points works? Like if there is 8 mags for a weapon, then the cost of ammo points is 1/8? I don't really know, I had always assumed each weapon has different values, like a LAT taking an entire bag vs as rifle being able to refill its ammo from one bag. Someone with more knowledge on the mechanics of the ammo bags and time to re-arm would have to comment. With the separate slots for each bag I think maybe the same issue would come up. Also only limiting the ammo runner kit to 4 per team would keep it from being over-used. I think having two different loadouts of it would be cool as well, such as iron sights with one smoke one frag, or scope and no grenades and less mags.

I want to revive this thread now that this would be a very valuable kit given that the buildable emplacements no longer start with ammo. A good loadout for this kit would be:

- Knife
- Normal infantry rifle with red-dot vs ironsights
- No frags
- shovel
- ammo bag
- ammo bag
- ammo bag
- patch

The shorter range scope gives the impression that the main role of this kit is as support kit. Maybe add binocs to the kit so that they can assist MG emplacements, LAT kits, etc by spotting. No frags because with three ammo bags, that could add up to something like 8-9 frags if I am correct.
Only 4 requestable per team, needs just 4 guys in squad to request, that way a small mortar squad can use the kit.
The only complication would be making sure the values for how much it takes to re-arm an ammo bag do not let the ammo runner perpetually re-arm themselves from their own bags.

BigBigMonkeyMan wrote: Only 4 requestable per team, needs just 4 guys in squad to request, that way a small mortar squad can use the kit.

I would suggest to make it that you need to have 6 guys in the squad as that numbers is big enough to properly man a super FOB needing alot of emplacements

Yes, but I also think sometimes mortar squads grow too large. It really only takes 4 people MAX to run mortars effectively, incentivizing larger mortar squads is not good for a team.

BigBigMonkeyMan wrote:Yes, but I also think sometimes mortar squads grow too large. It really only takes 4 people MAX to run mortars effectively, incentivizing larger mortar squads is not good for a team.

only 1/2 ammo runners on the entire team with a requirement of 3 people in a squad would be great.

I'd imagine the loadout for the ammo carrier would be
1. Knife
2. entrenching tool
3. rifle with only red dot/iron sight depending on faction, 4 mags
4. 4X ammo bag
5. 2x smoke grenade
6. binocular
7. none
8. 1x field dressing

edit:
and maybe limit it to 3 per team, primarily used by mortar and logistic squads

BigBigMonkeyMan wrote:I think a kit that could be realistic as well as useful is a standard rifleman kit that carries 3-4 ammo bags instead of 1. They would only have 2/3 the amount of stamina (or even 1/2 depending on how many bags you want them to carry) as other kits (vBF2 had different stamina for different kits, so this should be doable), and would also only carry 1 smoke and 1 frag as opposed to 2. Maybe limit it to 4 being in play at a time. It would also not require a new kit texture, only changing the stamina and amount of equipment on the normal rifleman. Of course, you could also just borrow the more bulky AR kit texture but without the machine gun. Also require 5 people to be in the squad in order to select it.
With these requirements, I don't think this kit would unbalance things, as it creates a liability to your squad having someone move that slowly. It would also make it fairly undesirable to be the person moving that slowly, but carrying 4 ammo bags would be incredibly valuable when holding a position without support and without nearby crates. The 5 member squad minimum to request this kit also keeps it from being used in a lone wolf way with a HAT or AA kit, who often take jeeps with ammo crates anyway. I don't see it being used incredibly often, but there are some maps where it would be very nice to have someone carrying extra ammo for the whole squad.

I don't understand. What kind of problem are you trying to solve with this kit?

The problem I am trying to solve with this kit is being out in the field and not having ammo in a place that is dangerous for a vehicle to bring ammo. Many people only have space for one rifleman in their squad and many people that need ammo.

Just increase the ammo rifleman carries already.. like whats the deal?

You don't need more ammo in the squad. You need to secure your supply lines and realize the value of the transport vehicle as a source of supplies. Stop dumping vehicles on the field. It's minus two ammo boxes per almost every abandoned convetional forces vehicle. Sivilian car is a different story but that's why hideouts now provide supplies.

What I would like to see instead is ability loot enemy vehicles. What I mean by loot is that anyone should be able to jump into unmanned enemy vehicle and drop all the remaining supplies. Recent events in the real world have shown that this kind of seizure of enemy assets is a thing, and that it can be important source of supplies to friendly forces.