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I dont like it. It takes too long to kill. Trading one shot kill for detachable mags is not worth it. I hate being forced into using it. The 1911 is better as a personal defense weapon than the m1 carbine.

dcm wrote:I dont like it. It takes too long to kill. Trading one shot kill for detachable mags is not worth it. I hate being forced into using it. The 1911 is better as a personal defense weapon than the m1 carbine.

WW2 isn't for you then

ALADE3N wrote:WW2 isn't for you then

WW2 aint good.

I haven't played WW2 with the new update.

The M1 carbine should be faster to deploy/move, also more accurate at moderate ranges with its lower recoil and shouldering. Reload should be quick and easy.

The M1 Carbine should easily kill at 100 meters, where as the .45 at just 50 meters would be a challenge.

Inside 50 yards the M1 Carbine should be awesome. Past that though it should start to show limitations in damage or accuracy.

It is basically a magnum pistol round in a rifle. But it is a semi auto rifle in a bolt action world.

If it is not these things, I would agree there is a problem with it. Though the rifle is what was used, and it is less effective than the M1 Garand.

dcm wrote: The 1911 is better as a personal defense weapon than the m1 carbine.

This will sum it up for those who dont want to read, M1 Carbine is a defensive and supplemental fire weapon. You shouldnt use it to aim/look at your enemy directly without a 2nd more reliable weapon in support or while hidden in bush. Once you fire with this weak weapon making noise while hidden you should run from anything else before it comes for you, 2 bolt action men or a single G43/STG44 is automatic advantage against 1 M1 Carbine mag. Its a weapon to kill what you can but then get away, more just a weapon to get away using it only if you need to. Your M1 Carbines bullets should land next to enemy meaning you stepped just out of view of them to fire safely backing them off while you bail out or walk it into them with pre-fire at most, choose your risks. "Draw the line where trying to kill somebody is and trying to stay alive is to keep them off you in the same situation. Pushing too hard with your weak weapon will get you killed likely. Make them run and hide, but dont give chase increasing the threat to their life for this increases their determination, need and capability to kill you faster if you go chasing them" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12GUm1WynxQ

Now that is and im sure was the debate of 1911 vs M1 Carbine. You need to change your outlook on the actual use of this gun, you see its limited in what you are given but I will tell you some ways and concepts for your mind to use it creatively. The balance is most Germans have bolt actions. Keep in mind realistically people get shot by small caliber and can still shoot back until they bleed out or destruction of bone/muscle prevents it, this is where FT lbs of energy comes into play, how hard you hit your enemy when putting a hole in them.

The idea of a gun is to aim directly at somebody and put them down, that is the most basic way you use a gun in video games or real life. Easy to do when hidden, un-seen and enemy sitting still for you, this becomes more of a standard requirement to kill with weaker weapons. But there are more advanced ways you need to shoot for survival no matter the caliber, but especially with the M1A1 Carbine in .30 Carbine. I always teach more like pre-firing, bailing away, dump your mag and run to friendly which should be in view for immediate support. Aiming directly at enemy looking for kills without support with this kind of weapon, that means you need to aim at somebody and they can have equal chance of seeing you.

The right way to use this weapon is pure self defense backing enemy off, killing ONLY if you can and supplemental fire. Tap them in the head if you can but if you try to snipe with this M1 Carbine they will likely take cover before you can finish them. But sitting still to aim while getting shot at or in active firefight will get you killed, so use this gun right way only. Dont let the enemy come in view of you or friendly is the goal at all times. Bullets back people up or they just stand in the way. Fire past enemy without seeing them, impact your bullets next to them without seeing them just 1 degree to the left/right of them, they will think you see them and want to get away from your shot grouping landing next to them. This saves friendlies cause that enemy was aiming and looking but now is backed off.

That is a supplemental fire role to back off trouble maker somebody didnt pick off, ideally kill them always but dont let trying to aim for too long sitting still with bad weapon get you killed or prevent saving friendly by backing enemy off knowing you will miss just suppressing. Take too long to aim you or somebody else dies for lack of action of backing enemy off, dont aim to kill just back enemy off. No matter what range it is best you dont see the enemy. Accept backing the enemy off is ok.

You dont need to kill to survive right away everytime or this will get you killed, i see it in so many ways where people need to bail away and not get into a battle of accuracy sitting still with enemy seeing who gets who first. Back out and bail away from that fire fight of accuracy, switch to more advanced methods like pre-fire and suppression. Like I said use other skills, dont rely on the guns power to put target down, bail away, pre-fire, sideways lateral movements, new spots, get more guys to pop up shooting enemy location and other things to learn.

Not good having the weakest carbine rifle caliber on the map against enemy with more powerful weapon in a 1 to 1 encounter, second to second timing doing more damage per bullet counts for both. Its like a citizen getting into gun fight with criminal, citizen has bought a chosen high caliber he picked like .45 ACP, 5.7, .40 S&W where criminal has the stolen .22 cal pistol he cant pick. Who is delivering more energy per bullet? This is where you consider its role and how to use it based off capabilities and typical situations to keep yourself alive. M1 carbine is a close combat defense weapon for vegetation and urban areas use to back people off and kill if you can.

Draw the line where trying to kill somebody is and trying to stay alive to keep them off you is in the same situation, pushing too hard with your weak weapon will get you killed likely. Like real life. 1 on 1 against bolt action like the balance intends you might be ok, once you are done with one enemy bail out to friendly. A second enemy then you wont have the ammunition or collective added energy(FT lbs) of bullets in a mag to kill 2. Back to the criminal, he cant use his little pea shooter .22 to effectively wound the citizen with higher caliber, its just a small noise maker or control device to be like "I have a gun too" which still gives the effect of getting shot at allowing movement and not total domination by any one side so you make each other hide. If you had to i would say you could, without looking any data up at most 200 Meters in ambush situation or just un-seen in general with .30 Carbine.

The M1 Garand is a marksmen rifle in .30-06. The ammo of .30 Carbine M1 Carbine is not powerful enough. It was designed for self defense to be light weight, its only useful in a short range varmint type of marksmen role for accurate fire less than 200 meters while hidden, then defensive suppression in close combat. Self defense backing enemy off and supplemental gun fire that due to its capabilities encourages dedicated close range defenders in bushy areas among a squad of high caliber guns, they cant shoot far so might as well watch close. In hunting you would use this for small fast game animals.

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:This will sum it up for those who dont want to read, M1 Carbine is a defensive and supplemental fire weapon. You shouldnt use it to aim/look at your enemy directly without a 2nd more reliable weapon in support or while hidden in bush. Once you fire with this weak weapon making noise while hidden you should run from anything else before it comes for you, 2 bolt action men or a single G43/STG44 is automatic advantage against 1 M1 Carbine mag. Its a weapon to kill what you can but then get away, more just a weapon to get away using it only if you need to. Your M1 Carbines bullets should land next to enemy meaning you stepped just out of view of them to fire safely backing them off while you bail out or walk it into them with pre-fire at most, choose your risks. "Draw the line where trying to kill somebody is and trying to stay alive is to keep them off you in the same situation. Pushing too hard with your weak weapon will get you killed likely. Make them run and hide, but dont give chase increasing the threat to their life for this increases their determination, need and capability to kill you faster if you go chasing them" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12GUm1WynxQ

Now that is and im sure was the debate of 1911 vs M1 Carbine. You need to change your outlook on the actual use of this gun, you see its limited in what you are given but I will tell you some ways and concepts for your mind to use it creatively. The balance is most Germans have bolt actions. Keep in mind realistically people get shot by small caliber and can still shoot back until they bleed out or destruction of bone/muscle prevents it, this is where FT lbs of energy comes into play, how hard you hit your enemy when putting a hole in them.

The idea of a gun is to aim directly at somebody and put them down, that is the most basic way you use a gun in video games or real life. Easy to do when hidden, un-seen and enemy sitting still for you, this becomes more of a standard requirement to kill with weaker weapons. But there are more advanced ways you need to shoot for survival no matter the caliber, but especially with the M1A1 Carbine in .30 Carbine. I always teach more like pre-firing, bailing away, dump your mag and run to friendly which should be in view for immediate support. Aiming directly at enemy looking for kills without support with this kind of weapon, that means you need to aim at somebody and they can have equal chance of seeing you.

The right way to use this weapon is pure self defense backing enemy off, killing ONLY if you can and supplemental fire. Tap them in the head if you can but if you try to snipe with this M1 Carbine they will likely take cover before you can finish them. But sitting still to aim while getting shot at or in active firefight will get you killed, so use this gun right way only. Dont let the enemy come in view of you or friendly is the goal at all times. Bullets back people up or they just stand in the way. Fire past enemy without seeing them, impact your bullets next to them without seeing them just 1 degree to the left/right of them, they will think you see them and want to get away from your shot grouping landing next to them. This saves friendlies cause that enemy was aiming and looking but now is backed off.

That is a supplemental fire role to back off trouble maker somebody didnt pick off, ideally kill them always but dont let trying to aim for too long sitting still with bad weapon get you killed or prevent saving friendly by backing enemy off knowing you will miss just suppressing. Take too long to aim you or somebody else dies for lack of action of backing enemy off, dont aim to kill just back enemy off. No matter what range it is best you dont see the enemy. Accept backing the enemy off is ok.

You dont need to kill to survive right away everytime or this will get you killed, i see it in so many ways where people need to bail away and not get into a battle of accuracy sitting still with enemy seeing who gets who first. Back out and bail away from that fire fight of accuracy, switch to more advanced methods like pre-fire and suppression. Like I said use other skills, dont rely on the guns power to put target down, bail away, pre-fire, sideways lateral movements, new spots, get more guys to pop up shooting enemy location and other things to learn.

Not good having the weakest carbine rifle caliber on the map against enemy with more powerful weapon in a 1 to 1 encounter, second to second timing doing more damage per bullet counts for both. Its like a citizen getting into gun fight with criminal, citizen has bought a chosen high caliber he picked like .45 ACP, 5.7, .40 S&W where criminal has the stolen .22 cal pistol he cant pick. Who is delivering more energy per bullet? This is where you consider its role and how to use it based off capabilities and typical situations to keep yourself alive. M1 carbine is a close combat defense weapon for vegetation and urban areas use to back people off and kill if you can.

Draw the line where trying to kill somebody is and trying to stay alive to keep them off you is in the same situation, pushing too hard with your weak weapon will get you killed likely. Like real life. 1 on 1 against bolt action like the balance intends you might be ok, once you are done with one enemy bail out to friendly. A second enemy then you wont have the ammunition or collective added energy(FT lbs) of bullets in a mag to kill 2. Back to the criminal, he cant use his little pea shooter .22 to effectively wound the citizen with higher caliber, its just a small noise maker or control device to be like "I have a gun too" which still gives the effect of getting shot at allowing movement and not total domination by any one side so you make each other hide. If you had to i would say you could, without looking any data up at most 200 Meters in ambush situation or just un-seen in general with .30 Carbine.

The M1 Garand is a marksmen rifle in .30-06. The ammo of .30 Carbine M1 Carbine is not powerful enough. It was designed for self defense to be light weight, its only useful in a short range varmint type of marksmen role for accurate fire less than 200 meters while hidden, then defensive suppression in close combat. Self defense backing enemy off and supplemental gun fire that due to its capabilities encourages dedicated close range defenders in bushy areas among a squad of high caliber guns, they cant shoot far so might as well watch close. In hunting you would use this for small fast game animals.

Pls.... dont destroy this thread with your bs especially with your kd.

On topic. The gun feels not very accurate aswell while being weak.
Maybe shorten the settle time and reduce deviation

It's a weapon with a guaranteed 2-hit kill at every conceiveable ingame range for an unscoped weapon and uses the "standard" deviation template for for assault rifles.

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:... The M1 Garand is a marksmen rifle in .30-06. The ammo of .30 Carbine M1 Carbine is not powerful enough... In hunting you would use this for small fast game animals.

I'll admit, I didn't spend 5 minutes reading 9 paragraphs and 45 sentences - grabbed the CliffNotes from your publisher ... not trying to be disrespectful but this particular information quoted above is objectively false, unless you consider deer to be 'small fast game animals'. .30-06 is a powerful round that can deliver a world of hurt accurately up to 400 meters. It can smash bones and explode organs.

I'm surely not going to read any reply if it approaches 6,000 characters like your last reply; seriously friend, are you payed by the word? lol - I just feel that you have a lot of information you want to share, but if you would look up some information on one of the most popular rifle rounds for large game, such as deer, you may understand the .30-06 round more and be in a better position to write a volume about it with fewer false statements.


TLDNR;
If you want to hunt for small fast game, you would NEVER use a .30-06 if you didn't want that game to explode, and if you maybe want a chance at some meat or pelt. Small fast game is hunted with small fast ammo, such as .22 LR or maybe 17 HMR.

SemlerPDX wrote:I'll admit, I didn't spend 5 minutes reading 9 paragraphs and 45 sentences - grabbed the CliffNotes from your publisher ... not trying to be disrespectful but this particular information quoted above is objectively false, unless you consider deer to be 'small fast game animals'. .30-06 is a powerful round that can deliver a world of hurt accurately up to 400 meters. It can smash bones and explode organs.

but if you would look up some information on one of the most popular rifle rounds for large game, such as deer, you may understand the .30-06 round more and be in a better position to write a volume about it with fewer false statements.


TLDNR;
If you want to hunt for small fast game, you would NEVER use a .30-06 if you didn't want that game to explode, and if you maybe want a chance at some meat or pelt. Small fast game is hunted with small fast ammo, such as .22 LR or maybe 17 HMR.

You mis-read what i said because i used comparison between .30 Carbine and .30-06 in same paragraph and again using the same M1 designation but i did distinguish Carbine from Garand. Giving me a TLDNR but trying to say what i wrote is false, but actually you just mis-read it. So it looks like im talking about .30-06 but i said right after that "The ammo of .30 carbine",. I know what im talking about, you just mis-read what i said here it is again. I use CTRL+F to find keywords in long posts/articles, word searches whole page.

"The M1 Garand is a marksmen rifle in .30-06. The ammo of .30 Carbine M1 Carbine is not powerful enough. It was designed for self defense to be light weight, its only useful in a short range varmint type of marksmen role for accurate fire less than 200 meters while hidden, then defensive suppression in close combat. Self defense backing enemy off and supplemental gun fire that due to its capabilities encourages dedicated close range defenders in bushy areas among a squad of high caliber guns, they cant shoot far so might as well watch close. In hunting you would use this for small fast game animals."

Notice i compare 2 different weapons to send home the point. .30 Carbine is basically a pistol bullet in a short rifle cartridge, but this ends up not being a rifle or a pistol round, so they call it a carbine. Do you really think I don't know to use smaller caliber on smaller game? That's common sense that could be learned the hard way with rocks. Which does more damage, do i use the big heavy rock or the small rock? That's where your confusion starts but wasn't fixed before reading the part when I said "its only useful in a short range varmint type of marksmen role for less than 200 M". You should know by saying that I'm talking about the .30 carbine even with M1 Garand ammo mentioned in same paragraph while majority of the rest is directly stated to be about the M1 Carbine or implied by its described low caliber attributes. We can also blame the geniuses who named 3 guns with M1 designations for World War 2 (M1A1 THOMPSON, M1A1 Carbine and M1 Garand).

Varmint means a wild animal, typically small nuisances near middle or bottom of food chain that causes trouble for live stock/farms(fox, badger, coyote), another hint I'm talking about the main gun of this subject. Obviously i know the caliber to use seeing how I factored in already that .30 carbine is weaker, which this whole forum subject is based on why we here. Then saying how to use this weaker weapon which OBVIOUSLY you would use on smaller animals because it barely works on destroying a fully grown human. Its obvious I know, so were you drunk or just trying to make it look like to those who wont read that I don't know what I'm talking about by you questioning? People are going to see your misunderstanding then check what I said. I suspect you were drunk because you actually read the whole thing to get to that last paragraph, only intoxicated and intellectual people read the whole thing. Only one reads hard or reads that sentence again to understand things twice.

Frontliner wrote:It's a weapon with a guaranteed 2-hit kill at every conceiveable ingame range for an unscoped weapon and uses the "standard" deviation template for for assault rifles.

A dude shot me like 4 times in the body with it today and i still got away in a straight line bush this enemy was also in, I mean he hit 4 out of 15 bullets in a mag dump. Cant say if it was arm, leg or torso. Thats 2 head shots right for the 2 hit kill? Makes sense because sometimes getting shot in the face once isnt enough with small calibers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfjWDTZTitY&t=62s

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:You mis-read what i said...

See? This is what happens when you write a 2000 word essay. Any points you may be trying to make get lost in the wall of text, and readers don't put much effort into trying to understand what you are conveying. TBF, I had stated that I had not read your entire volume of lore related to the M1, missing the word 'carbine' completely and thought u were on about the Garand, thinking you mistyped .30-06 as .30. Definitely could hunt small game with .30 caliber rounds, like Wing-Walker wrote, pretty much a pistol round similar to the .357.

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:Varmint means a wild animal, typically small nuisances near middle or bottom of food chain that causes trouble for live stock/farms(fox, badger, coyote)...

omg - did you literally take the time to write out a definition of Varmint? lmfao!

I had misread / missed the 'carbine', but certainly not unfamiliar with the term 'varmint'.

dcm wrote:I dont like it. It takes too long to kill. Trading one shot kill for detachable mags is not worth it. I hate being forced into using it. The 1911 is better as a personal defense weapon than the m1 carbine.

That's not even an argument. That's more of a failure in reasoning. The carbine's role is very different as are the roles of the kits it comes auto assigned in. Perhaps if people stopped misusing their equipment, the rest of the squad could actually get something done.

It's the same in Forgotten Hope. I always avoid the Carbine because I can't aim with it properly and I always seem to be dead behind in a few seconds.

Michael Z Freeman wrote:It's the same in Forgotten Hope. I always avoid the Carbine because I can't aim with it properly and I always seem to be dead behind in a few seconds.

I wouldnt have a problem with the m1 carbine if it wasnt so useless and underpowered. Dont matter which game. Its always the same. Takes 3-4 shots to kill. Inferior to the one shot garand. If the m1 carbine is supposed to be more of an early pdw type weapon give it more ammo or something to balance it out.

dcm wrote:I wouldnt have a problem with the m1 carbine if it wasnt so useless and underpowered. Dont matter which game. Its always the same. Takes 3-4 shots to kill. Inferior to the one shot garand. If the m1 carbine is supposed to be more of an early pdw type weapon give it more ammo or something to balance it out.

Medic USA ALT kit should be M1911 because medics werent supposed to use weapons but that is one that they would have.

If they could implement into the game a component similar to the civilian martyr system, where its against the ROE to fire on medics not engaging you with a weapon in the European theatre only. With a score penalty, spawn penalty and maybe invent a 3rd thing.

IRL nobody got punished for killing a medic unless its a confirmed kill situation and un-needed, extremely immoral. The enemy medic is similar to the nature of friendly medic. Logic would follow medic volunteers to be the most helpful with intel, duties, being peaceful in general

For pacific theater we should have the M1A1 STD and ALT completely un-armed medic, Doss style.

@Grump
We already have civilian medic collaborators ingame for the insurgent team. Nobody gives a shit and slaughters them anyway. Until they see their respawn timer. Outside of insurgency there is no reason to take POWs.

Just spit balling here. But what if there were incentives and trade-offs to taking POWs. Like there is no ticket cost for getting arrested but your respawn time is increased. And if you get killed as blufor POW after your civi/pow timer is up. You get something like being martyred. Ticket loss yes. But very fast respawn.

dcm wrote:@Grump
We already have civilian medic collaborators ingame for the insurgent team. Nobody gives a shit and slaughters them anyway. Until they see their respawn timer. Outside of insurgency there is no reason to take POWs.

Just spit balling here. But what if there were incentives and trade-offs to taking POWs. Like there is no ticket cost for getting arrested but your respawn time is increased. And if you get killed as blufor POW after your civi/pow timer is up. You get something like being martyred. Ticket loss yes. But very fast respawn.

Next to the arrest function of the game. Taking in someone who surrenders as POW at a defensive flag under guard away from kits takes that person out the battle till executed. Thats one natural incentive. Since its the defense flag it doesn't reveal much if they decide to still comm their team. Incentives can be created hopfully for Project Reality: Virtual Reality needs to do this, hopefully we can get some PR team developers to start playing with VR devving, guiding that games development and learning VR development.

In my experience a few times, pre-firing with instruction for my squad to not kill the player, or to let people surrender has produced surrenders out of their fear and their want for amusement rather than death. I have taken a few salutes from un-armed enemy after this. They pop out hands up, not with weapon.