Project Reality Forums

Good evening,

Remember one-life events? They offer an exotic experience compared to regular pub AAS matches and even tournament matches. The rules force the player to value his life and assets and play differently than usual. That makes PR feel more real, and I liked it and I'm sure others also did. Obviously one-life matches can only happen as events, but what if we elaborate on a new gamemode that:

1. encourages realistic, careful gameplay, where you would value your life and assets more instead of dying and respawning over and over again

2. doesn't kick the deceased players out of the match or make them wait for too long, so it can be run between other gamemodes

3. is viable and playable

***

The rough idea that came to my mind today is:

- A small amount of tickets per team depending on the number of assets (150-200?). This will make every death count from the very start, and the ticket count would be more or less equal to the number of tickets a team can lose if all troops and vehicles died simultaneously. Which means.. that it's basically a one-life event, but ends quickly. The playerbase would have to adjust and learn to play a bit differently to win in this gamemode. More team and squad cooperation required surely. If there's blueberries running around alone and wasting tickets, the rest of the team should try to show them the ropes and take them in. If they don't comply, everyone else will probably shittalk them, right.

- The respawn time would be a bit longer to serve as individual punishment for dying (and be a motivation to stay alive) and prevent severe ticket loss for the team. How long? I'd say 120-180 seconds.

- No flags? Nah, maybe 1 flag with a decent radius and long cap time, 2 tops - actual strategic positions worth controlling. Capturing a flag would give your team 10 tickets or make the enemy team lose 10 tickets. No ticket bleed.

- All assets are NO RESPAWN. And they spawn instantly. Except vehicles that are able to rush too effectively (light APC's, CAS), they would have to be delayed 2-3 minutes. The layers would not include many heavy assets due to their risk of being overpowered, depends on the map.

The purpose of this gamemode - Clash? - would be simulating the very start of a realistic battle between conventional factions, and encouraging less casual tactics and strategy. The problem would be urban maps with enterable buildings, the T-shape for example. We wouldn't want a squad to sit in one for the whole match, maybe the flags could be placed so these buildings are not in the cap radius. Surely this wouldn't work on some maps.

Once again, this is only a rough idea. I'd like to know: what do you think? I want to see if this makes any sense at all and if anyone would be interested in a gamemode/layer like this at all. If anyone has any criticism/feedback or additional ideas for this - the discussion is open.

If we discuss and experiment well, this could become a nice addition as a quick, competitive deployment match, like a bigger tryhard skirmish. With less flags, there would be more freedom for refined tactics, and no confusion often seen on CNC. Just pure hardcore competition full of risk.

Cheers everyone

I like.

I doubt this would work with public games.

Reminds of Battlefield 3 with squad deathmatch mode where 4 squads fighting each other with only 15 tickets (2-3 deaths per squad member), promoting squad coordination. Felt really refreshing.

Also i already can see the flaws of such gamemode in PR:
1) People will be more tending to defensive approach. This might lead to exchanging mortar barrages until someone will get more lucky.
2) tank/ifv submarine warfare will be even more frustrating.
3) blueberries will drain tickets. you can't change that.

I like the idea but i afraid this is not a public gamemode. If only you could figure out how to promote more aggressive gameplay and deal with blueberries without wiping out 60% of server on such maps.

Why exactly Alon?

Hans_Strudel wrote:Reminds of Battlefield 3 with squad deathmatch mode where 4 squads fighting each other with only 15 tickets (2-3 deaths per squad member), promoting squad coordination. Felt really refreshing.

Also i already can see the flaws of such gamemode in PR:
1) People will be more tending to defensive approach. This might lead to exchanging mortar barrages until someone will get more lucky.
2) tank/ifv submarine warfare will be even more frustrating.
3) blueberries will drain tickets. you can't change that.

I like the idea but i afraid this is not a public gamemode. If only you could figure out how to promote more aggressive gameplay and deal with blueberries without wiping out 60% of server on such maps.

Thanks for the feedback. I believe that we could try testing the configuration as events and see how it works out to further improve it.
1. That's true, so if there's no motivation to dynamic gameplay, there should be some kind of objective besides killing the enemy and staying alive. Should it be just a flag like described above?
2. That's why the assets should be limited. On most maps if there's a tank, it may decimate the whole team too easily. The gamemode would be focused on infantry and light vehicle combat, and utilize smaller layers on 4k maps. I would honestly disable mortars too.
3. It depends. If HOG runs the gamemode on EU morning with no-mics being the majority on the server, the match will end fairly quickly. Even then, the blueberries will become aware, that dying has more weight to it in, so I expect improvement to some degree. However, if it's an organised server with a mic requirement - take PR Boomers for example, and it's EU prime time, the gamemode should work out pretty well.

Obviously for starters an event is the way to go

AlonTavor wrote:I doubt this would work with public games.

As Alon said, i doubt it would work in public games.

Simply being said the PR community is in a sense to varied for such a gameplay mode. When you get NA or SA squads who believe everything they do is right; a bunch of European squads that refuse to communicate with each other or Asian squads that refuse to listen to other squads or talk english. The game will end in a matter of 10 minutes of the first engagement because of langauge barriers and everyone thinking what they're doing is what everyone should be doing. I can give examples of this in a normal match, but I don't want to bash anyone in anyway for how they play, neither would I want someone to bash me in anyway for how I choose to play.

No mics aren't really a problem if they stick with the squad and play along instead of going out and doing their own thing like this is a battleroyale.

Hans_Strudel wrote: Also i already can see the flaws of such gamemode in PR:
1) People will be more tending to defensive approach. This might lead to exchanging mortar barrages until someone will get more lucky.

Not many players play defensively no matter the game mode. I've been in games where an entire team decided to push and leave their flank exposed to a counter attack which potential cause them to be out capped and unable to recover.



And to be honest with a flag it will just feel like CNC, but with 1 Flag instead of 1 fob. And without the flag, its basically TDM. On gamemodes like this I'd advise not having UAV or heavy Air assets (CAS, anything with heavy guns honestly) it should be ground forces only and leave people to rely on what they think would be the best approach. I think there shouldn't be a ticket count, it should be ~1hr match and the team who lost the least assets (Inf included) wins. That might encourage more players to push honestly if there happens to be some that aren't.

I think it would work because what you're describing is basically current AAS but with way shorter round time. I wouldn't go for 3 minute respawn times though, I would limit repair&rearm as well.

I would however rather see CNC become this instead of adding yet another gamemode that would fall out of favor to AAS&INS, like CNC and VW already do.

Hmm...yes I agree that I don't think it'll work as you describes it on public servers but I like it too.

Perhaps forcing one team to play more aggressive and other defensive. I'm getting countestrike thoughts in my head - one team has to attack within a timer(could be round end or until defending team caps the flags or something). Attacking team has better assets. It could even be that shitty unconventional factions could be used. And there could even be 2 points of defense like in Counter-strike. The team has to spread out and when they figure out where the attack is the other side will have to react - and the team that does this the best wins.

Good ideas!

CNC has the problem of FOB replacing. While it's interesting for experienced players, it confuses the hell out of newbies, and without proper leadership the gamemode ends up being unfun and dragged out.

Maybe we could change it this way:

-Both teams have predetermined FOB positions with ready emplacements EXCEPT MORTARS, and they're the only spawnpoints for each team (no main bases).

-One respawnable crate next to the fob, can't build/replace assets. 150 tickets per team, 120s respawn time.

-Once you lose the FOB you can spawn only on rally points, the crate can't be destroyed (respawns).

-Once you lose your FOB and everyone is dead/wounded - you lose, just like on vanilla BF2 maps without uncaps

-Once you drain your tickets - you also lose ofc

In this scenario both teams would need to defend and attack. I can imagine a sneaky breacher placing 2 c4's on the enemy FOB and fend off the defenders until it disappears to drastically lower their chance of victory by getting rid of their sole spawn point.

But this scenario wouldn't like vehicles.. it would need to be pure infantry combat due to the dangerous firepower even a light APC has, it would be too easy to destroy or camp the fob.


***


Alternatively based on sweedensniiperr's suggestion, it could become a counter-strike style gamemode. Well. Even better, something similar to the Rush gamemode in BF3! One team defends 2 points pretty close to each other - A and B. All you gotta do to win is place a c4 on each of them.

- Main bases with vehicles available

- Defenders - 150 tickets and a time-limited forward spawn point at the beginning

- Attackers - 200 tickets and slightly better assets

- Heavy assets respawn delayed - 2-3 minutes?

- Once the defenders lose both points (they can be beacons, radio stations, or just fob objects), they lose instantly

Everything needs further discussion and testing, but I think this could work.

Honestly l wonder if 3 flags wouldn't be the best option as it would a) have less of a impact of the team that you arrive first at the flag (Xiang Nam is the best example to this, NVA has less Mobility, and the US end up inicialy winning by getting there first) it would prevent the win condition by controlling the best area (like owning on TV Station)

Maybe have only 1 mortar with slower reload rate or higher ammo consuption to require actual logistic chain that's worth defending and preventing complete mortar obliteration while they still do their job on preventing Super FOB domination

It looks like a interesting concept, its sad that it came a bit too late.
Non the less l guess it could be a fun thing to play when the more experienced players are out, unfortunately l don't think it would be a good gameplay for a full server when is when that condition is usually met.

AlonTavor wrote:I doubt this would work with public games.

It wouldn't because the people who don't like it wont cooperate, they rush on purpose already with maps and game modes they hate. Just like when somebody on Omaha you dont want driving the boat gets drivers seat, doesn't go to where everyone else is meeting up. They would rather force a loss from themselves, including rushing other vehicles with them just to end it faster or play like its Call Of Duty every time on repeat rather than try something new. Whether it be skills, new ways game makes you adapt or game modes to play.

Well, there are already maps with layouts that offer something that comes closer to this concept than regular AAS does (I like the concept very much though, just pointing this out):

- Falklands skirmish INF (argentines have 100 tickets, british have 40, destroy the objective)
- Black gold Infantry C&C or AAS (450 tickets each, BMP vs Type 86 IFV), only city and surroundings are combat area
- Basically all C&C is this, when played correctly.

The problem ultimately lies with how C&C is approached. It's considered a "meme" gamemode, and when it is voted, people often vote for 4k C&C's which stretch on forever.

If C&C tickets were halved, I think admins would be more confident about setting C&C's without deseeding the server.

axytho wrote:The problem ultimately lies with how C&C is approached. It's considered a "meme" gamemode, and when it voted, people often vote for 4k C&C's which stretch on forever.

If C&C tickets were halved, I think admins would be able to be more confident about setting C&C's without deseeding the server.

That's true, CNC has too many tickets and drags on forever on 4k maps.

The layers you pointed out are something I genuinely like, so I guess that kind of gameplay is what I strive for. The matches could be more dynamic, demanding, stressful, and most importantly shorter. While your life as an individual feels directly impactful on the outcome of the match, and the time penalty for dying would be greater. In most AAS layers, people just give up and respawn, noone cares about tickets until they hear the siren.

Unicode wrote:That's true, CNC has too many tickets and drags on forever on 4k maps.

The layers you pointed out are something I genuinely like, so I guess that kind of gameplay is what I strive for. The matches could be more dynamic, demanding, stressful, and most importantly shorter. While your life as an individual feels directly impactful on the outcome of the match, and the time penalty for dying would be greater.

I miss 2000 ticket per team layouts now that I have learned and most of us applied Combined Arms Breach to the game, based off the Omaha Beach boat concept.. One or few boats dies fast, while many in view of each other survive because its too much to kill. Same goes on all maps no matter the vehicle or infantry. If we steam roll now with less than 1000 ticket matches the game ends too fast. Where the old 1500 ticket bleed out time gave some fun counter attacks. 1500-2000 ticket map layouts should be brought back, only way to win fast is use real life steam roll tactics to get that last flag. The tanks have anywhere from 4000-10,000 COAX rounds just like how you see COAX used in this video when COAX starts up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ-sCT_maAQ&t=485s

The type of people who claim real life tactics are boring while both having unknowingly done it in Project Reality with me instructing the roles and/or having no actual knowledge of the tactics to recognize their use. Once the mutually supporting positional in view of each other tactics are secured, its down to the speed and skill of dealing with threats. Otherwise this type of asset brigade loses assets and falls apart.

Sadly some of these people who ignore this find themselves worthy of their team to be assets consistently refusing to acknowledge their ignoring of the only person teaching tactics they will never learn nor practice it. They try it once, it goes better than what they do, but due to time learning where they die they claim "it doesnt work". Down to understanding reasons for "random shooting at nothing everywhere" to keep enemy from peeking their team which should be in view, its how you save each other and mutually support each other. They are un-willing to learn, try something new and stick to waiting for something to not only look at them, but they need to see it at the same time as they get peeked. If they shoot casually on COAX while looking around with 1000s of rounds of COAX, where ever they dont want enemy to peek.

They cant see what im saying that keeps them alive. Its logic, put jeep and tank in view of each other, what is enemy likely to blow up first? Put one or more logis doing repairs with 3 tanks in view and enemy has 2 or more targets to take out, enemy has something to weigh. The typical noob response tactic (way project reality is supposed to be played) of logi repairing tank they think that "Logi must first be destroyed" but if logi is in view of tank perfectly that gives tank chance to shoot enemy tank while it reloads.

Then theres the matter of being spread out to not get blown up with one thing but you have to be in view. Their minds separate all these tactics rather than bringing it together, they separate and cannot balance stay in view but be spread out. Even knowing the existence of area attacks as the biggest threat they act like they dont know how far to spread out. Its simply staying in view for mutual support, dividing enemy fire and attention.

We got rid of that 2000 ticket layout style because people dont want to play that long playing the wrong way without ever learning the right way to at least mimic. You dont need to know every fine detail of real life tactics, just mimic what they do. People get bored because their lack of skill, knowledge, leadership, conveying and accomplishing ideas with incentive instruction. Basically high IQ easy to understand instruction that breaks the "lone wolf" mentality I see especially with jeeps, anti-air vehicles, you see it with all vehicles and its with people playing who cant understand every english word said. They dont listen, the CAS goes where ever it wants on map not dividing map in half for enemy AA territory then they die.

All teams assets(tanks, CAS, APC, jeeps, infantry, logi repairs) in view of each other connecting the dots visually for support. Stay in view of each other to save each other, anti air vehicle protects tanks which are CAS bait and provide safe zones for friendly CAS to bait enemy CAS into range of AA. Use logi repairs at distance capable of saving burning armor, logi in distance to supply new infantry FOBs. First let nothing advance or kill anything protecting objective with chosen positions that are also capable of helping attack. Apply the same things to tanks and all other assets on maps like Kashan, Khamisiyah, Burning sands

Won't work, only because servers don't run things that are out of the normal. They don't even run alternate layers much. I did see a vote for CNC today on HOG, but no one knows how to play it since no one runs them, so it lost.

You should suggest in the forums ran by the different servers, then they can post suggestions here.

great idea

i like this idea

Unicode wrote:Good evening,

Remember one-life events? They offer an exotic experience compared to regular pub AAS matches and even tournament matches. The rules force the player to value his life and assets and play differently than usual. That makes PR feel more real, ....

This part of the OP's post speaks to the core of what would make an new game mode idea like this fun and original to PR...

I think it would be a good discussion here if we talked about how it COULD work...

...rather than people just saying it would not work...



If you had to, how could you MAKE a 1 life PR work?

WingWalker wrote: If you had to, how could you MAKE a 1 life PR work?

Become a spectator when you die and no one can see your chat/voice as opposed to the old fashion BAN UNTIL THE REST OF THE ROUND.
to combat the noobs that will ghost on discord, we can limit spectator to first person and members of their team only.

(Spectators shouldn't take slot on the server)

matches should only take 30 mins or less. when time is surpassed or a team no longer has people to fight, the match ends and everyone gets kicked and told to rejoin if they wish to play the next match

I agree, but the respawn timer have to go more longer.

so the more u dies the longer the respawn timer will go.

we can go from start like 80/90 second

and can go into full 5 minutes if u dies too much

(this will prevent tickets draining very quick)