Project Reality Forums

Hi everybody this thread is about countering snipers.

The following video shows how helpless an infantry squad is against a sniper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBLjwgu ... nel=Birdie

as we can see in the footage the sniper is located on top of the fortress in Masirah , and the infantry is by the hangers at the airport.
the actual range between the two units is roughly 800m , well beyond the visual range of the infantry he is engaging.

As I see it , one counter the infantry had was smoke grenades. but Since there's no muzzle flash from the sniper shot it would be hard to tell where to throw it.

A second counter could be a marksman kit , but depending on the range and scope on the rifle, the marksman kit could be an ineffective counter.

what would you say another counter is? Are snipers in the game fair?

Crylink wrote:Hi everybody this thread is about countering snipers.

The following video shows how helpless an infantry squad is against a sniper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBLjwgu ... nel=Birdie

as we can see in the footage the sniper is located on top of the fortress in Masirah , and the infantry is by the hangers at the airport.
the actual range between the two units is roughly 800m , well beyond the visual range of the infantry he is engaging.

As I see it , one counter the infantry had was smoke grenades. but Since there's no muzzle flash from the sniper shot it would be hard to tell where to throw it.

A second counter could be a marksman kit , but depending on the range and scope on the rifle, the marksman kit could be an ineffective counter.

what would you say another counter is? Are snipers in the game fair?

This is a tough one, forget fairness though. War is not fair, artillery is not fair. You can have the best soldier but nothing except a shovel and few big picture tactics can save him. The only thing I can say is un-fair about snipers, is no cross wind beyond 600 meters affecting bullet or steady drop. I wish it took a few of the real life ballistic data factors to consider into flight. Give a cone of fire to figure out where bullet will land.

Smoke grenades don't last that long, it needs to be used for an action or movement to recover somebody to safety.

You need teamwork from another squad, if you can't kill the sniper without getting killed from the squad he is giving problems. You need support for somewhere else. Send mortars, TOW, LAT, lots of HMG, APC fire, tanks to deal with him.

Problem is once this asset makes itself known before it gets to engage the sniper hides from it out of angle. Meaning if your support is looking for an accurate target to shoot, they will never shoot. Just get his location and send projectiles of any kind in there. Otherwise don't give the sniper the satisfaction

Grump/Gump.45 wrote:This is a tough one, forget fairness though. War is not fair, artillery is not fair. You can have the best soldier but nothing except a shovel and few big picture tactics can save him. The only thing I can say is un-fair about snipers, is no cross wind beyond 600 meters affecting bullet or steady drop. I wish it took a few of the real life ballistic data factors to consider into flight. Give a cone of fire to figure out where bullet will land.

Smoke grenades don't last that long, it needs to be used for an action or movement to recover somebody to safety.

You need teamwork from another squad, if you can't kill the sniper without getting killed from the squad he is giving problems. You need support for somewhere else. Send mortars, TOW, LAT, lots of HMG, APC fire, tanks to deal with him.

Problem is once this asset makes itself known before it gets to engage the sniper hides from it out of angle. Meaning if your support is looking for an accurate target to shoot, they will never shoot. Just get his location and send projectiles of any kind in there. Otherwise don't give the sniper the satisfaction

I agree mostly but you are missing one thing. There's no muzzle flash.
There's no reliable way to tell exactly where the sniper is even when he starts firing.
suppressing fire should do the trick but practically the infantry insight of the sniper CANT SEE the sniper because of low resolution(not everyone has 4k monitors).
The sniper is only peeking the tip of his head necessary to fire at his enemy, therefor even a marksman with a medium power scope would only see a dark dot where the sniper is and wouldn't be able to tell if its just an odd dark dot or a sniper since there's no difference at a distance.(No muzzle flash ,tracer or dust kicking up).

the only way to find the sniper is if the SL with his officer kit takes out the binoculars and spots him, this is problematic if the SL get killed first or the sniper is pinning the officer.

Also I suggest we keep TOW and other assets out of this thread because not all maps have assets, mortars(blurfor on ins) or TOW(ARF ,insurgents , Vietnam factions and Argentina don't get them)

Crylink wrote: what would you say another counter is? Are snipers in the game fair?

1) move sideways to direction to the sniper, targets which walk towards or away from sniper are easy, shooting on people toggling sprint and just walking sideways is complicated. Shooting on moving targets is very very hard on long distances, therefore keep your speed always: never lay down, never stay

2) dont try to find sniper visually, only sound, and dont allow others to search for sniper with optics. Snipers collect all these pokemons and end up with 30+ kills. Ignore sniper, he will want you to find him

3) use smoke to block his vision

4) know sniper positions which are top by popularity and top by effectiveness, expect that there will be somebody. Try to wound sniper if he doesnt pay attention to you, but dont compete with him in accurate shooting, send HE if he dont see you

5) have your own sniper who knows how to play for enemy sniper and can counter him if he wants to duel, but snipers often orbit in vacuum and dont try to shoot each other

Crylink wrote:Are snipers in the game fair?

fair in a fight against what? if APC then not so fair

Chuva_RD wrote:1) move sideways to direction to the sniper, targets which walk towards or away from sniper are easy, shooting on people toggling sprint and just walking sideways is complicated. Shooting on moving targets is very very hard on long distances, therefore keep your speed always: never lay down, never stay

2) dont try to find sniper visually, only sound, and dont allow others to search for sniper with optics. Snipers collect all these pokemons and end up with 30+ kills. Ignore sniper, he will want you to find him

3) use smoke to block his vision

4) know sniper positions which are top by popularity and top by effectiveness, expect that there will be somebody. Try to wound sniper if he doesnt pay attention to you, but dont compete with him in accurate shooting, send HE if he dont see you

5) have your own sniper who knows how to play for enemy sniper and can counter him if he wants to duel, but snipers often orbit in vacuum and dont try to shoot each other


fair in a fight against what? if APC then not so fair

1 - I agree that moving sideways is harder to hit but still very doable as seen in the video linked above.

2- Agree but still difficult to tell where he is exactly.

3-smoke is cool but doesn't stop bullets , and by the time the smoke disperses you are most likely dead.

4-I agree that you should know popular and obvious positions, but wounding a sniper is almost impossible because he is just 1 pixel on the screen often times.

5- Not practical since most snipers are snatched right away by lonewolves and no mics who often wont cooperate or even be able to communicate with since they're in a freekit squad or an asset squad that wont bother with them.

fairness - In my opinion snipers should be able to outrange rifles of an infantry squad but the machinegunner or marksman should be able to suppress the sniper back to hiding. but heres the problem ingame, snipers cannot be found due to low resolution and therefor cannot be suppressed , if there was a way to have muzzle flash or dust kick up from the firing of the sniper rifle it would be easier to find. and its just frustrating that 1 sniper can kill 30+ like nothing.

In Muttrah city for example, USMC snipers are dropped off on the mountains where MEC cant reach or see them.
and they are able to pick off mostly everybody.

Crylink wrote:I agree mostly but you are missing one thing. There's no muzzle flash.
There's no reliable way to tell exactly where the sniper is even when he starts firing.
suppressing fire should do the trick but practically the infantry insight of the sniper CANT SEE the sniper because of low resolution(not everyone has 4k monitors).
The sniper is only peeking the tip of his head necessary to fire at his enemy

the only way to find the sniper is if the SL with his officer kit takes out the binoculars and spots him, this is problematic if the SL get killed first or the sniper is pinning the officer.

Also I suggest we keep TOW and other assets out of this thread because not all maps have assets

Ok so only infantry dealing with sniper. Its a problem that pins people and working that problem costs lives and attention on other enemies supporting the sniper. Using the enemy reaction toward their sniper

No basic moves, no simple peeking around corners or even from other side of cars. Find loop holes in the environment where you typically wouldn't look through using it or focus on as a sniper against that type of terrain feature.

Don't sit still for scopes. In the video I say increase range, those guys getting sniped at are just within view distance. Use the sound of enemy sniper rifle to know which way to move further away, it is a distinguishable sound. That airplane in the background, the underside and the round wheels could provide loop holes.

Long ago in Project Reality on Fallujah, I was the assistant sniper with a Mosin Nagant Ironsight to both a scoped Mosin and SVD in the building just north of gas station. I would wait for the scoped rifle to fire, then I fire as soon as I hear him shoot the target. If the scope for some reason didn't register or get him all the way, I got the kill. Use this concept with marksmen fires first, then everyone else.

Do 1 man per piece of cover pre-positioned then 1,2,3 EVERYONE PEEK. He can only get one at a time, the excitement could make him slightly less accurate, also most sniper rifles only have 5 shots. Do dodging movements. Guy who sits still the most exposed gets shot first unless the sniper is like me and leaves him as easy dumb target for later.

(Side note, if enemy came in building, my Mosin Nagant was rigged like a booby trap, stabilized and set off by me BOOBY TRAP MENTALITY. Play dead or otherwise be the fear without IEDs)

Crylink wrote:I agree mostly but you are missing one thing. There's no muzzle flash.
There's no reliable way to tell exactly where the sniper is even when he starts firing.
suppressing fire should do the trick but practically the infantry insight of the sniper CANT SEE the sniper because of low resolution(not everyone has 4k monitors).

The sniper is only peeking the tip of his head necessary to fire at his enemy, therefor even a marksman with a medium power scope would only see a dark dot where the sniper is and wouldn't be able to tell if its just an odd dark dot or a sniper since there's no difference at a distance.(No muzzle flash ,tracer or dust kicking up).

That is exactly why I say "Scan aggressively, anything suspect gets it. If it looks like a head or body part peeking tap it. 1 man per piece of cover in view of each other to save each other. 1 man hurt per mortar, tank shell and RPG" (by distraction of being target and shooting together)

Only thing I need to add to that, is if the uniform blends into the background of a building interior or background of terrain tap the window, tap the suspect thing sticking out. Even if its a rock. You could be looking over a section of tan buildings and wont notice the tan uniform head your eyes just pass over.

People get annoyed when I say that, I shouldn't say people cause they are toxic. I say it to program the mind to see targets faster with more suspicious paranoia and detail. It reminds and programs the mind. Scan aggressively for anything suspect, if it looks like it could be enemy peeking hit it.

Look at my profile picture, in the jungle this is why you want to scan aggressively for anything suspect that stands out.

If you see someone get shot by a sniper, don't go there, definitely don't stand there. Makes the job a lot more difficult for snipers. Locate by sound, find with binocs, open up with MG/LAT?
At least in PR snipers are not that much at an advantage, especially if you can talk to other squads or assets.

Sound is the best way to locate a sniper. Many times, I can pinpoint the direction of a sniper within 25 degrees after seeing someone go down and hearing the shot. Then I inform my squad "Do not expose yourself to the NE, sniper is that direction," or something to that effect. From there, I consult my map and look for possible buildings, hills, or vantage points the sniper could be located. Then I give a guess what map/keypad the sniper is and let other squads know in SL chat and mark it on the map. Intel and communication are key.
The more people know the approximate location, the quicker we can find the exact location and figure out how to deal with it. If its extreme range like the video, I most likely ignore them with caution, but at 500 meters or less it usually is not too difficult to kill them or cause them to relocate.
Of course, terrain plays a big role like in the video. FOB camping in the open is hard to get past, not sure why it was placed there when it could have been placed inside the hangar. I applaud the sniper team.

Crylink wrote:1 - I agree that moving sideways is harder to hit but still very doable as seen in the video linked above.

2- Agree but still difficult to tell where he is exactly.

3-smoke is cool but doesn't stop bullets , and by the time the smoke disperses you are most likely dead.

4-I agree that you should know popular and obvious positions, but wounding a sniper is almost impossible because he is just 1 pixel on the screen often times.

5- Not practical since most snipers are snatched right away by lonewolves and no mics who often wont cooperate or even be able to communicate with since they're in a freekit squad or an asset squad that wont bother with them.

1 - its not just harder, its much harder. Different rifles have different zoom on optics, meaning different offset from target. You can estimate the offset, but it will work for targets moving perpendicular to you and will scale nonlinearly with angle changing. Hitting targets who sprint a bit and then walk is just luck, might aswell use MG.

2 - Yes, especially if he is 800m away. You dont need to know exactly, just dont lay down and dont stop

3 - and where to shoot? snipers cant spray. They can preaim on tow going under smoke, but just know that you will die if you get in and wait until he shoots, then get in.

4 - well then just try to cancel him, deny him kills.

5 - just like any asset, you have better chances to take sniper than take cas actually

Crylink wrote:
fairness - In my opinion snipers should be able to outrange rifles of an infantry squad but the machinegunner or marksman should be able to suppress the sniper back to hiding. but heres the problem ingame, snipers cannot be found due to low resolution and therefor cannot be suppressed , if there was a way to have muzzle flash or dust kick up from the firing of the sniper rifle it would be easier to find. and its just frustrating that 1 sniper can kill 30+ like nothing.

and how many snipers making 30+ each round you see? when its taken by noobs they kill some and then use pistol.

Crylink wrote:In Muttrah city for example, USMC snipers are dropped off on the mountains where MEC cant reach or see them.
and they are able to pick off mostly everybody.

muttrah map design is outdated indeed. You can kill the sniper, he has half of the head sticking out from the ridge. Use your own sniper to kill him, thats where you need to shoot properly.

BigBigMonkeyMan wrote:Sound is the best way to locate a sniper. Many times, I can pinpoint the direction of a sniper within 25 degrees after seeing someone go down and hearing the shot.

Fully agree. After a couple of shots, if the sniper isn't moving, I can pinpoint him within a few degrees by just listening. That's why good positional audio setup is so important.

Crylink wrote:the actual range between the two units is roughly 800m , well beyond the visual range of the infantry he is engaging.

As I see it , one counter the infantry had was smoke grenades. but Since there's no muzzle flash from the sniper shot it would be hard to tell where to throw it.

A second counter could be a marksman kit , but depending on the range and scope on the rifle, the marksman kit could be an ineffective counter.

Muzzle flash wouldn't do anything for you since you probably wouldn't be looking in the direction anyway, and it would be 1 pixel. The best thing is the sound of the shot. It tells you what the rifle is (Sniper rifle), tells you the range he is at, and it tells you the general direction.

At 800 PR-meters you are at about the max visual range for a Sniper even, a lot of maps it is like 400-600.

You would loose if you tried to shoot it out with him at 800 meters. He would already have you in his sights, and at that range you can't see where he is at all soon enough, even with a flash.

So, the only way would be if he makes mistakes like...

... start shooting multiple shots...

... was lazy with his hide and was silhouetted at the top of or at the edge of something...

... or if he was moving constantly.


However, if shooting it out under 200m it would be risky for him. If he shoots more than 1 time, even just 1 shot can be too much, hitting or missing you. He risks getting others to notice him and close in on his hide.


The best things for you to do in general against a good PR-Sniper:

1. Hide, pop smoke and do not peek out at all when people pop smoke and hide you can generally watch until the smoke clears and wait about a minute to see if someone peeks out, but usually they fall back into cover.

2. Wait and hide as long and you have patience for, 2-5mins(or longer)... don't even peek out. most times people hide, and peek out right away, or part of them is still visible, if they were totally hidden for 2-5mins he would probably loose interest at start looking for other targets.

3. Sprint out in a Zig Zag motion. A lot of movement is hard to hit, not impossible, but a Sniper can only get off about 2 shots if you were sprinting to cover, also he might get baited into shooting too many times and be located by others.

4.Communicate the possible location to anyone that can help, your squad, other squads, or assets like armor or cas.

5. If you have to... Shoot it out...
a. Look around with optics and maintain constant motion side to side, up and down, and be unpredictable. (some try to just pop up and down, but it doesn't work well)
b. be totally hidden and barely peek out at the very edge of seeing what you are looking at (tops of things first, then lower, looking at edges, objects, and cluttered details)
c. rapid fire to suppress with motion if you can (this is your advantage, you would force him out, or he would eventually get hit)

Grump/Gump.45 wrote: I wish it took a few of the real life ballistic data factors to consider into flight. Give a cone of fire to figure out where bullet will land.

We used to have this with a drop in the aiming point at longer range.

It was terrible, too big of a learning curve for normal players. Noobs would take the kit and not know how to use it.

clueless_noob wrote: After a couple of shots, if the sniper isn't moving, I can pinpoint him within a few degrees by just listening. That's why good positional audio setup is so important.

THIS.
People give me so much **** for having my effects Vol up to 100% and my sound all up because I can't hear them in a 30second helo ride.

If you hear a Sniper, take the opportunity to hunt him, and locate him by sound.

Chuva_RD wrote: never lay down

LOL

This happens so often, I have no idea why.

Crylink wrote: Not practical since most snipers are snatched right away by lonewolves and no mics who often wont cooperate or even be able to communicate with since they're in a freekit squad or an asset squad that wont bother with them.

This is not true.

It has been my experience that Squad Leaders in general have no clue how to LEAD or utilize a Sniper.

We end up a a "SUB-Squad", within a Squad, that has a totally different mission, and is mostly an after thought of the SL.

Having a whole Squad devoted to being a "Sniper Squad" is a total waste of players, since the entire role requires no more than 2 people, if that.

WingWalker wrote:

clueless_noob;2216161 wrote:Fully agree. After a couple of shots, if the sniper isn't moving, I can pinpoint him within a few degrees by just listening. That's why good positional audio setup is so important.

THIS.
People give me so much **** for having my effects Vol up to 100% and my sound all up because I can't hear them in a 30second helo ride.

AutoHotKey can be configured to adjust PR and Mumble volume on the operating system level. I use an adapted version of this guide and it really helps with the volume problem.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showth ... p?t=119843

In addition to the Windows' per-application volume hotkeys, I also have configured keys F10 - F12 for Mumble Mute+Deafen, vol down and vol up, respectively.

No more bleeding ears.

WingWalker wrote: It has been my experience that Squad Leaders in general have no clue how to LEAD or utilize a Sniper.

tell him where enemy fobs and tows, slap him on the shoulder, say "good luck gamer" and forget about him

Audio cues always give them away. Also, if there are non horizonal surfaces, you could assume the position of where you've been fired upon by where the bullet hits.

Chuva_RD wrote:tell him where enemy fobs and tows, slap him on the shoulder, say "good luck gamer" and forget about him

literally the best approach for leading a sniper duo on their way.

Chuva_RD wrote:tell him where enemy fobs and tows, slap him on the shoulder, say "good luck gamer" and forget about him

Yes, this is normally what you have to do. I also think it is what gives Snipers a bad rep in PR.

The nature of the kit means you are on your own even if working with a squad. So no matter what you look like a lone wolf.

You can bring guys with you, but its really not necessary for the role unless you get hit.

If you bring someone, they generally get you killed because while you are over watching in stealth and waiting, they get bored and try to do things.

Ideally for me, a "Sniper SQ" would be 2 snipers, a Spotter, Breacher, AT, and a Marksman operating separate from each other in an area, closing it off to enemy use, with the SL communicating to the rest of the team on mumble.

Though, trying to get others to adhere to this tactic is like herding cats...