Project Reality Forums

This is actually my first post in general discussion, however I feel it's for a good reason.
I've been playing pr since its first prmm release and I got to tell you without sounding to critical, something is happening, and it isn't good.

I usually play on Gloryhoundz, always have since it was erected public, not so much lately as its been locked or down. This has left me and a few friends of mine the only option and really no alternative bandwidth wise to play on these 'modified config servers' mentioned in the newest announcement regarding .6.
Now I don't have problems playing on a server that doesn't have incremental death delay time or decreased kit times. But what I do have a problem with is the overwhelming influx of new players who really are turning pr into simply bf2 with a bit better accuracy. Is this because of the server side changes? Are the server side changes influencing this type of gameplay and bf2 players to play pr?

What I've noticed is teamwork seems to be completely out of the question lately, let alone people with mics or having mic receive enabled. It seems as though all players want to do is fly, waiting on planes and helis or drive the tanks/APCs, thus completely disregarding the gameplay/map entirely which leads to just a complete waste of time. Al Basrah and Greasy Mullet are prime examples of this.
I mean these are some of the exact issues that made me stop playing bf2, uninstalling and storing it in my closet two years ago.
What is going on?

Something egg said in the 0.6 update post leaves me to believe I'm not alone in noticing this;
"Well if server admins want to force us into diverting energies from developing mod content and into locking down the server code, I suppose we might have to think about that.
I'd rather they just ran a different mod to be honest. That way we can focus our energies on building great mod content, not on addressing the two or three obstinant admins who might refuse to cooperate."

I strongly agree with the first part of the message, as in I do think some time should be spent trying to lock down some of the major serverside config files, in fact I see it as a necessity with any mod. I know this wont stop admins from running older versions, but what exactly will not supporting it do, DICE doesn't support pr, so ultimately nothing at all.
I say at least separate it so those who want to play bf2 with pr modifications are away from playing with the big boys.

This being said, what is the future of this mod?
If killing off all the new attention through a filtering process being unmodified server side configuration files, there are maybe half or even a quarter of the amount of new players that would actually want to play pr as intended.
This may not seem like a good idea for some, but if this dev team is as dedicated to original idea of making this mod as they intended it, filtering is a good thing. Otherwise, why not just play another mod?

So where do we play? What server?
I think an official PR server may actually be the answer to a lot of these issues, and I would actually be willing to take time out of my day to administer these servers if needed. If not, donate to pr to support official servers on all coasts...
I'm willing to do this because I don't want this mod that has a lot of potential to die off before it's even reached its final unmodified stage.

So...what now?

What did you read half a paragraph?
Come on now, alittle consideration and thought here.
You know bf2 itself is useless on any server above 100ms frankly.

"We can mod the game, but we cant mod the players"

by master Rhino


I played today on the TacticalGame and that was such a nice game ! (Great SL xXGuerra)

When I join in server with no teamplay, I creat my own squad and start recruit good players. If he uses the mic, great, stay, if no, out of the squad. I think everyone should do it, while the others are saying things, you DO something.

Dont give up the mod, PR still has a long life and long battles comming (belive I).

"Better an Army of sheep led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by sheep!!!" (is this corret ?)

I don't think it's a question of servers, I think it's down to the players. We need to educate the ones coming from vanilla (I'm still one that's learning).

This Mod is outstanding but lets not try to get elitest, it's a game after all. Education is the key for players and admins, education takes patience and time. It will take a long time for this to happen but I believe we'll reap the benefits.

I could be talking bollox as I've had eight pints of Speckled Hen tonight!!!!

Oh I'm not giving up on the mod...its the latter. If I gave up I wouldn't have posted this, it's out of concern.
And I'm not looking to modify the players either, but when you've played as long as I have, you can see the difference and if this effect is due to these recent issues of changing server side configs, then I think suggestions are in order and should be strongly considered. Something more then just, we won't support you cause that wont work. PR doesn't support cheaters either, but they're still rampant.


*Garabaldi you a ever take alook at bf2's code? any idea what phython is like when it comes to dealing with netcode? This is off topic and useless to talk about cause its not good.

*I agree with you too strima, but honesty and teamwork have little to do with elitism. If I wanted to just play a typical game I wouldnt be playing pr, and I dont think Im the only one.

=Romagnolo= wrote: "Better a sheep army leaded by a lion than a lion army leaded by a sheep" (is this corret ?)

Better an Army of sheep led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by sheep!!!

Hope this helps.

imo it's necessary for the PR devs to be more aggressive in forcing teamwork in the game. Force squads to stick together and while many will be unaffected because they actually practiced teamplay anyway, all the other squads will be forced to act as a unit as well. The simplest way of doing this is to have a very prominent prompt 'return to formation' if you move more than 20m from your squad leader. Effectively making any and every random pub squad a working cohesive infantry unit. Hell that should be the greatest selling point of this game - that unlike in other games (Armed Assault for example where if you plan to enjoy the game at all, you have to actually personally know the other players), in Project Reality complete strangers can instantly join a squad and work as a team instantly.

Yes, skeletor that pretty much goes hand in hand with strimas comment. I have noticed many times that when I simply form a teamwork squad enforcing it we end up winning, but that isn't the point really and doesn't work to well on these modified servers especially when pr itself enforces this as a mod. But when you have nothing else to play on to where its an enjoyable and expected experience, what do you do?

PR will flourish over the years and Vannila will DIE!

Promagnum wrote:So where do we play? What server?

Join us on [TF21] Battlefield Cooperative 0.509 PROS, IP: 216.15.144.99:16567. We pride ourselves on teamwork, voip as well as teamspeak for inter-squad communication. We always have, and always will run stock pr settings. The server itself is centrally located in St. Louis, MO, so it has a low ping for nearly anyone within the U.S. Stop by our game server or visit our website at http://www.taskforcexxi.com. As you were.

$kelet0r wrote:imo it's necessary for the PR devs to be more aggressive in forcing teamwork in the game. Force squads to stick together and while many will be unaffected because they actually practiced teamplay anyway, all the other squads will be forced to act as a unit as well. The simplest way of doing this is to have a very prominent prompt 'return to formation' if you move more than 20m from your squad leader. Effectively making any and every random pub squad a working cohesive infantry unit. Hell that should be the greatest selling point of this game - that unlike in other games (Armed Assault for example where if you plan to enjoy the game at all, you have to actually personally know the other players), in Project Reality complete strangers can instantly join a squad and work as a team instantly.

This is a horrible idea that will cause more problems than good.

And to all you people bitching about teamwork in a pub, join a clan and start doing nothing but scrim. When I played BFV my clan worked in squads and everyone had a designated role. But when I went pubing I wasnt expecting the same thing.

I think everyone was too use to playing with the same group of 50 people and forgot what public servers are realy like. Just play in a squad you see working together and forget what the rest of the team is doing. You will never be able to "educate" (which sounds extremely elitest strima) everyone in to playing the way you think they should. Again if you want this go create a clan and be on your merry way.

As for the short spawn servers, they are clearly labeled as such so just dont play in them. If people want to who gives a shit; let them. They are not forcing anyone to play there or coming in here bitching and moaning about the long spawn times (unlike the nonstop thread after thread of people bitching about a server THEY ARE NOT FORCED TO PLAY IN). I played in a short spawn server once, saw nobody was working together and basicly running around like idiots and left. I never went back into one and have not had a single problem with them since.

In short, 1. you want more tight nit teamwork and strategy join a clan and play only clan matches. 2. You dont like playing in short spawn servers...then dont play in them. 3. Stop all the bitching, just play the game or dont but starting 20 threads crying about this or that solves nothing.

Just my two cents, if you have an issue with what I said PM me, I dont want to start a flame war.

he simplest way of doing this is to have a very prominent prompt 'return to formation' if you move more than 20m from your squad leader

In theory for the average joe squad yes. Although for better squads it makes spotters/intel scouts more difficult to include ... and lets be honest, sneaking around the front lines with a pair of binoculars reporting is amazing fun and tense.

EDIT -
To the above ... Project Reality is for those among us who want tactical gameplay. It used to offer this to even those who cant join clans because they are not always online, or cannot commit to clan matches and just want to jup in and play with tactics and teams. TBH, the influx of lone wolves is a bad thing, because its taking away the purpose of the original PR, since is nigh on impossible unless you go to the 'tactical gamer' server. If people want to play nilla style, there is a lot of mods for that (POE2, BF2 Lego etc) - and PR should always try and accomodate the niche is wanted to. Nillas have hundreds of mods to choose from, tactical gamers only have 1, which is being made impossible to play tactically for those with time constraints.

strima wrote:Better an Army of sheep led by a Lion, than an Army of Lions led by sheep!!!

Hope this helps.

Thanks, English is not my first language.

'[R-PUB wrote:Garabaldi']Look for servers running PROS (Project Reality Official Settings).

There are still a great deal of them.

Yea, but non of them are ever full though. Only servers that are full for us US guys are TG and DEV Basrah 24/7, and Basrah can get stale quick.

$kelet0r wrote:imo it's necessary for the PR devs to be more aggressive in forcing teamwork in the game. Force squads to stick together and while many will be unaffected because they actually practiced teamplay anyway, all the other squads will be forced to act as a unit as well. The simplest way of doing this is to have a very prominent prompt 'return to formation' if you move more than 20m from your squad leader. Effectively making any and every random pub squad a working cohesive infantry unit. Hell that should be the greatest selling point of this game - that unlike in other games (Armed Assault for example where if you plan to enjoy the game at all, you have to actually personally know the other players), in Project Reality complete strangers can instantly join a squad and work as a team instantly.

There is no point in that when you have VOIP. And I would like to have control over my squad, not the DEVs or the game. I would rather have people there who are willing to fight rather then be forced to. And even if you made this happen, you would still have idiots who wounder away and never take a flag, but instead play grabass in the desert somewhere(witnessed this today) and completely neglect the objectives of the team.

Promagnum, thank you very much for a thread where you actually argue your point.

Once again - I can hear my Hx mates laughing their heads off - I disagree.

And now for my reasons:

1) New players
I strongly feel that they are not the doom and gloom of our PR community. I have not been playing at Gloryhoundz because of the ping, but I do feel I can speak. In European servers we are experiencing some of the same things. The things that you folks are annoyed off are the exact same things that the experienced players are doing. It is no the "smacktard nooobies" doing it. It is everybody.

That is what is troubling me. I find experienced players in PR going amok trying to "get that kit" or "flying that new piece" or etc etc.

As a member of a clan, or even worse, as the "leader" of a clan: where am I to put my foot down? I preach "The gentlemans agreement" of PR. Then again, I have been around since 0.32 and never had the pleasure of sniperrifle because that would be incouraging my clanmates to "whoring". Where is the line of right and wrong?

I think it is completely idiocy to deny some players with natural aptitude to take these kits, just because some think it is "whoring".

Another thing is that, since I haven't been around since before 0.32 I feel like I am a complete noob on these forums. Unless I programmed computers with magnets to get those 1 and 0's in place I am a complete ***.

Why is that?

2. Teamwork
Since I do not play on the same servers, I guess I should shut up. That said, I feel that I meet new "teamplayers" everyday that have just tried out PR. What I see is a decline in teamwork from regular PR players.

If I was to break the "Gentlemans agreement" I would name names, and point fingers. I will not. Why would I? I want to try the new hardware. I want to try out the sniperrifle. I want to try out the frigging supportgun without somebody yelling at me that I am a frigging lame *** destroyer of PR. Yet I do not. My choice, and it makes me an half-*** player of PR.

If I cannot fulfill the role of one class, what use am I to my clan in a match?

3. What to do, what to do?
If the developers wants to focus all their attention on idiotic small details as to where some wants to take their mod - then this mod is doomed.

This bitching, moening, crying, whatever you want to call it has to stop. I am fine with developers saying that this is not where we WANT this mod to go. It is when they are crying bloody murder and whining and bitching I think they are doomed. Doomed because they are focusing all their attention on the wrong details.

Fuck us, you have the power to move forwards. Now act like adults and (as I have said before) DO SOMETHING - don't ***** - JUST DO SOMETHING.

In my opinion, if they where to do something considering the server config, make it easier on the server admins. Don't make us folks run in loops trying to push a square in a round hole. (Anyone disagrees with me on this one as a dev - PM me and I will give you some examples).


3) Kill of the noobies
I feel very, very, VERY strongly that the noobs are not the problem here. We are. We are elitist, snobbish, arrogant ******** forcing a game experience on new players. We keep saying "Fuck you" - "noob" or saying "Read The Fucking Manual". We do not even bother to answer new players on their questions without attacking them on grammar, not using search function, telling them that the lacking manual will answer all their problems.

Stop treathing people like they where idiots. I don't care if you have debated that issue thousand times. The person who just asked a question has not. Answer that person. Don't give an ... "Oh what the fuck" answere - ANSWERE the new person. Instead I see time and time again people responding to threads with their opinions on a topic, but never contributing to SOLVING a problem.

To that, I want to say - in my terrible english - You are killing this mod. Yes. You are. KILLING this mod. Think about it.

4) Keep killing the noobs, cause we have always been elite!

Take a step back. Look at the grand picture. I have said more than once that I personaly want to take this 1 life, 1 chance - permanent death. People panic. It is not where they want to go. They are fine with 30 seconds, but not loosing their lives and waiting 25 minutes to spawn again. For me it is still arcade "bahahahha". To that I get "to each his own".

In one case, my clanmates wanted to take the server towards the "idiocy" that is "stupidity" and change the server settings. My word? "I will not admin a server like that, you will get every smactard in the universe on our server - [CENSOR CENSOR CENSOR] (if I was to write down what I said, I would get banned here for sure) 24 hours went by, and they changed it back. They just could not cope with the folks and banned 70% of the folks joining in. I was all smiles, but they where shocked.

5) Be very carefull of what you say, cause God might punish you and take you on your word
You lad, have never admined a server. I can say that much.

If you have, then you would not volenteer to this duty. You want examples of how it is like, PM me. I will give you some examples.






PS: I am not native in english. Give me a friggin break! If not. I can get sober - you will still be just you. Let that be a warning.

PSPS: Promagnum; I really would like this to be an agrument. No right, no wrong. All for the glory of PR. If you feel strongly that I am wrong, disagree and prove me wrong.

Promagnum wrote:If killing off all the new attention through a filtering process being unmodified server side configuration files, there are maybe half or even a quarter of the amount of new players that would actually want to play pr as intended.

That's always been the plan with every release. 10 people try it, 5 or so like it, 2 or 3 stick with it. We need to get back to having a filter heh. The future of the mod is looking great. I think versions 5, 6 and 7 will see the team deliver a fairly complete chunk of the goals and vision we have for the mod.

Ok well, I'm not reading your whole rant there claudius lol. Anyways the OP should just start playing on the [T] server, and feel free to send me checks in the mail.

Promagnum wrote: You know bf2 itself is useless on any server above 100ms frankly.

strange that i have no problem playing on gloryhoundz with 180-205ms then server is in US and im located in Sweden. had no problem