Project Reality Forums

It is my humble opinion that the current PR maps have too much ticket bleed.
This induces an excessive sense of haste in assaults that damages the steady, careful, realistic teamplay that the mod seems to be striving at.
Think how often you snuff it, only to hastily respawn and try to get back into the fight ASAP because of ticket bleed.
Never mind regrouping with your SL and arranging a sensible assault, the bleed induces a sense of unreasonable haste.
I propose an alternative solution, remove ticket bleed but each flag cap adds X tickets to your team. Obviously, if you lose more tickets taking the flag than you gain then you are not gonna win, so this system encourages careful, yet offensive play.

you have to drive the enemy back to his last 2 flags on most maps before any kind of ticket bleed kicks in. If anything it comes it too late. Perfect example of this is the tournament. By now its recognized that kills are way more important than holding flags since ticket bleed wont kick in until u've pretty much lost the battle anyway.

ye bleed with AAS is kinda a hard issue about how excatly we should get it to work, thou I have an idea just needs a little testing.

'[R-CON wrote:BLind']you have to drive the enemy back to his last 2 flags on most maps before any kind of ticket bleed kicks in. If anything it comes it too late. Perfect example of this is the tournament. By now its recognized that kills are way more important than holding flags since ticket bleed wont kick in until u've pretty much lost the battle anyway.

I can think of a number of maps where one team starts off bleeding and has to cap a big wedge of the map or so before it even stops, so there is certainly a problem.

'[R-DEV wrote:Rhino']ye bleed with AAS is kinda a hard issue about how excatly we should get it to work, thou I have an idea just needs a little testing.

Oh thats right Rhino, just tease us, tease us like we're your *******.

DrMcCleod wrote:Oh thats right Rhino, just tease us, tease us like we're your *******.

k fine, my idea is to have ticket bleed not happen in the few center flags, so take OGT for exsample, it would not happen with unless a team had both brdige flags and was able to hold them for the other team, but they must have both the flags. but when they had that ticket bleed it would be very, very slight, we are talking like 2 tickets / min top, so it wouldnt mean very much. BUT, as you push the enemy further and further back, the ticket bleed will increase (for the enemy team) as your team gains each extra flag. by the last flag the ticket bleed is pretty high, like 10 or 15 tickets / min, maybe even 20. when that team has no flags left ticket bleed would be probaly as high as 500tickets / min meaning round over in a few secs so you aint waiting around for that last pesky sniper to die

thou i need to do some testing first to see how possible this is and if its workable + if there is any faults.

DrMcCleod wrote:It is my humble opinion that the current PR maps have too much ticket bleed.
This induces an excessive sense of haste in assaults that damages the steady, careful, realistic teamplay that the mod seems to be striving at.
Think how often you snuff it, only to hastily respawn and try to get back into the fight ASAP because of ticket bleed.
Never mind regrouping with your SL and arranging a sensible assault, the bleed induces a sense of unreasonable haste.
I propose an alternative solution, remove ticket bleed but each flag cap adds X tickets to your team. Obviously, if you lose more tickets taking the flag than you gain then you are not gonna win, so this system encourages careful, yet offensive play.

On the contrary. They are too deathmatchy. On most maps there is no reason at all to attack. It is much more effective to defend what you have all round instead of attacking a whole round to get 1 min of bleed. Unless you are playing a worthless opponent, you will not be able to wipe the other team off the map.

Need more bleed or just scrapping flags all together and making it deathmatch.

If flags
-don't give you a spawn
-don't give you bleed
there is no reason at all to bother with them unless for vanilla-inspired emotional reasons.

Perfect example: Hills of Hamgyong.
On this map, why would you want any flag other then the first one to stop bleed? You just go take out their RP's and stuff once you get one flag.

What would be best on the current system, is a heavily scaling bleed. When you have more (important) flags, you always get a small bleed, as you cap more flags, bleed increases by factor 2 or three. Heh re-read thread and I'm happy to see Rhino is all with me there, and so is blind. I'm happy the tournament pointed out what's been a pet peeve of mine since 0.5!

Biggaayal wrote: What would be best on the current system, is a heavily scaling bleed. When you have more (important) flags, you always get a small bleed, as you cap more flags, bleed increases by factor 2 or three. Heh re-read thread and I'm happy to see Rhino is all with me there, and so is blind. I'm happy the tournament pointed out what's been a pet peeve of mine since 0.5!

This would simply exacerbate the original problem of bleed-induced hastey gameplay. A team should be rewarded for a flag capture, but the capture should happen at its own pace, not dictated to by some arbitrary rule left over from Vanilla.
At root, this problem is down to the concept of capping flags to achieve victory, rather than performing a mission (blow a bridge, destroy a radar site, etc etc).

DrMcCleod wrote:It is my humble opinion that the current PR maps have too much ticket bleed.
This induces an excessive sense of haste in assaults that damages the steady, careful, realistic teamplay that the mod seems to be striving at.
Think how often you snuff it, only to hastily respawn and try to get back into the fight ASAP because of ticket bleed.
Never mind regrouping with your SL and arranging a sensible assault, the bleed induces a sense of unreasonable haste.

the current system is good, though we need more bleed. As already mentioned right now bleed doesn't have a huge effect, on most maps it's way better to just defend.

And as for rushing to the flag just when you spawn.. well that doesn't work too well. You get killed, 1 ticket lost and 30+ seconds to wait. That flag is going to be capped much faster if the team works together. Instead of everyone rushing to the flag all the time you can get one organized attack and take the flag. Much faster with less casualties.

Biggaayal wrote:On the contrary. They are too deathmatchy. On most maps there is no reason at all to attack. It is much more effective to defend what you have all round instead of attacking a whole round to get 1 min of bleed. Unless you are playing a worthless opponent, you will not be able to wipe the other team off the map.

Need more bleed or just scrapping flags all together and making it deathmatch.

If flags
-don't give you a spawn
-don't give you bleed
there is no reason at all to bother with them unless for vanilla-inspired emotional reasons.

QFT.

I agree with big gay al.

The concept of gaining territory is a pretty important one on a battlefield surely. Obviously it goes a little unrewarded (at the moment) in terms of having territory that gives you safe access to a road may give you some armour support in real life and having territory which is suitable for chopper drops might give you access to some re-enforcement (I have no idea how the modern battlefield works but I might as well have a stab at it eh?

End of the day certain pieces of terrain will be advantageous to have on a battlefield and the flag system emulates that. I don't see how the gameplay is rushed to be honest with the massive amount of tickets involved.

I think the bleed concept is vital to giving the map a purpose. Without it as already stated there is no incentive to push. Sure even without a bleed I still push hard to cap more flags but it doesn't really pay off sometimes. I have played maps were my team dominated the other team as far as holding the majority of flags for most of the game but we still loose from sheer ticket loss trying to go on the offensive. There needs to be a reward for dominating the map. Perhaps ice cream for the team everytime you cap a flag

mammikoura wrote: And as for rushing to the flag just when you spawn.. well that doesn't work too well. You get killed, 1 ticket lost and 30+ seconds to wait. That flag is going to be capped much faster if the team works together. Instead of everyone rushing to the flag all the time you can get one organized attack and take the flag. Much faster with less casualties.

That is the point.

Example Al Basrah. If the USMC team is not coordinated enough to cap the village (by joint operations like spawncar demolition while others attack), then they deserve to bleed to death.

If you have some good working squads you will always be able to stop bleeding for your team (even on Muttra). The problem the author of the thread is refering to only arises with confused squads/teams where the teamwork-/organisation-level is very low. Those teams probably loose anyway, the question is only if sooner or later...

you are forgetting one big point here.

Maps (atleest mine) have certain CP value (lets say 10 points) so when your team capture point oposing team looses 10 tickets (aldo i would rather see a possibility that your team gains 10 points).

So capturing flags does have sence and bleed is at the finale when one team is pushed way back to its main base just to faster brings end to allready lost/won match.

Cheers!

'[R-CON wrote:DJJ-Terror']you are forgetting one big point here.

Maps (atleest mine) have certain CP value (lets say 10 points) so when your team capture point oposing team looses 10 tickets (aldo i would rather see a possibility that your team gains 10 points).

So capturing flags does have sence and bleed is at the finale when one team is pushed way back to its main base just to faster brings end to allready lost/won match.

Cheers!

Sure, a final bleed when all flags are capped makes perfect sense (until victory conditions are introduced), but bleeding per se encourages the wrong sort of gameplay (i.e. fast and vanilla, rather than cautious and real).

What about making flags give you weapons or more support.
IE if you have 1 flag... you only get 1 sniper rifle.
Capture another flag, another sniper rifle.
Capture another one maybe another APC spawns back at the base.
Makes flags worth capturing with out encouraging hasty assaults....
/shrug

DrMcCleod wrote:Think how often you snuff it, only to hastily respawn and try to get back into the fight ASAP because of ticket bleed.
Never mind regrouping with your SL and arranging a sensible assault, the bleed induces a sense of unreasonable haste.

If you do this, you'll never cap that flag and hold it. You have to regroup with squad strength. If you didn't have a bleed, there would be no reason to go as a squad. Everyone would just hide on a rooftop with a UGL and maintain a positive KDR to win the game.

Hah, ppl are realizing that defense and kills are way more important than flags. The bleeding needs to happen much earlier.

I dislike ticket bleed and think that, for the most part, it screws up maps.

In PR the bleed when teams are down to their mains primarily as a method of bringing on the end of a round. wrt "why capture a CP" uh.. cuz it's a game and that's the objective in that particular game mode

And keep in mind that v0.5 is only part of the spawn system changes.. v0.6 will bring in more changes to the system that enable a team with more CPs some greater tactical options.

The ticket system will start to be used as an "economy" in v0.6 and we'll expand on that in future releases. Having them bleed away because of how the *mapper* set it up is not as attractive as having them bleed because of how the *players* are choosing to utilise that economy.

'[R-CON wrote:DJJ-Terror']you are forgetting one big point here.
Maps (atleest mine) have certain CP value (lets say 10 points) so when your team capture point oposing team looses 10 tickets (aldo i would rather see a possibility that your team gains 10 points).

Perhaps increase the value of those points lost/gained CP's
When you have evenly matched teams playing ping-pong with the middle ground can go on for hours.
Holding 90% of the map for a majority of the time then loosing on tickets doesn't seem right to me.