Project Reality Forums

I have a few question for the developers concerning armor ballistics.

#Now that we know there will be maps with longer and more realistic engagement distances for armor, will it be taken into consideration that ammunition like Sabot (which is a kinetic energy based weapon) will lose power over distance and make HEAT rounds more favorable for the longer engagement distances?

#Is this already implemented, if not, is it possible?

#Isn't there something similar with regards to small arms ballistics in PR?

#Do shells lose velocity in flight creating an uneven arc, or do they just drop at a constant velocity?

#Is it possible to implement a laser range finder system on tanks which will adjust the gun barrel elevation to where the center of the reticule in the optics is aiming?

Thank you.

I know that rounds can skip already. Thats the only way i can take out abrams with t62. hit front portion and skip round into turret.

Im sure they can enter drop for the 1km engagments

The maximum range that I was able to take out an tank was from 489meters in Ejod, the bullet didn't drop much, but its hard to adjust the aim since you can't see the bullet after it leaves the barrel because of all the smoke. But you can have an idea.

If anything Sabot rounds should become more, not less, useful over longer distances. Their ballistic arc is much flatter and they travel faster, making hitting over long distances much easier than with slow HEAT rounds. The loss of velocity for APFSDS is negligible over any distance in the game.

Sabot effectiveness is lost over distance, a HEAT round is equally effective as long as you can score a hit.
I know that in real life a Sabot round would be preferred over a HEAT round against heavy armor at 1km, however I'm talking about engagement compression since 1km is still not a realistic maximum engagement distance for modern tanks.

Guerra norte wrote:Sabot effectiveness is lost over distance, a HEAT round is equally effective as long as you can score a hit.
I know that in real life a Sabot round would be preferred over a HEAT round against heavy armor at 1km, however I'm talking about engagement compression since 1km is still not a realistic maximum engagement distance for modern tanks.

No, Sabot is preferred over any distance up to 4 km over HEAT. The velocity loss is not significant enough to give HEAT an edge (modern MBTs are generally better protected against HEAT than APFSDS). Also hitting a moving target over several km distance is extremely hard with HEAT due to its slow speed and high ballistic trajectory.

Fair enough, I'm no tank expert so you win the cake, but still, would it be possible model the Sabot to lose momentum even if it's preferred over HEAT?

Guerra norte wrote:Fair enough, I'm no tank expert so you win the cake, but still, would it be possible model the Sabot to lose momentum even if it's preferred over HEAT?

Not sure how possible it is to code, but in any case the modern long-rod penetrators have so little aerodynamic drag that the velocity drop even over 4000 meters is not very significant - the penetration still far exceeds that of HEAT.

the energy dissipation would be insignificant at even the longest engagement ranges possible in BF2.

I use SABOT on tanks, and HEATon infantry.

Is this correct?

At what time should I use HEAT on enemy tanks?

Heat rounds can take out tanks for sure, just when you are in a rear position try and aim for back of tread or engine.

Sometimes it works...

ErusF wrote:The maximum range that I was able to take out an tank was from 489meters in Ejod, the bullet didn't drop much, but its hard to adjust the aim since you can't see the bullet after it leaves the barrel because of all the smoke. But you can have an idea.

thats why I always have a foward observer and spotter when im in a tank.

El_Vikingo wrote:At what time should I use HEAT on enemy tanks?

When you're out of sabot rounds

LOL LiquidSnake..

'[R-DEV wrote:Exel']Not sure how possible it is to code, but in any case the modern long-rod penetrators have so little aerodynamic drag that the velocity drop even over 4000 meters is not very significant - the penetration still far exceeds that of HEAT.

I am a Calculus student and if the game engine allows you to vary the velocity for each shot and calculate the distance the projectile should travel, then it should be very possible. The downside to this approach is that you would have to be using constant velocity projectiles to fake variable velocity projectiles, which would cause inaccuracies should a non-static object (e.g. a tank) change position causing the projectile to strike earlier/later than predicted.

Here is how you can calculate the proper velocities to make this work: If you can create a function (a mathematical function) that can model the velocity as a function of time, then it should be possible to divide the integral of that function, bounded by bounds a and b (with a being 0 and b being the distance at which the projectile will strike), by b minus a (or in this case just b) to give the average velocity at which the projectile will travel and therefore the velocity necessary to fake a loss of momentum.

If your Calculus skills are a bit dusty, I could do the integration for you to provide the necessary function to calculate the average velocities. The only thing that you will need to do is to provide the function that would realistically model the velocity as a function of time. This is, of course, assuming that it is an elementary function, although if it is not, there are methods in my textbook I might be able to use to approximate the exact function.

In RL tanks can kill targets from a mile away or even more i think.(i watch to much military channel). I know they can do this b/c of their range finding computers but since we dont have those they should just make it that the tank round goes right where the aim curser is.

modern tanks cant survive a frontal hit from sabot fired at a range of less than 800m. i cant remember exactly where i saw it but i think it was a program comaparing anti tank weapons vrs tank armor.

'[R-MOD wrote:Thunder']modern tanks cant survive a frontal hit from sabot fired at a range of less than 800m. i cant remember exactly where i saw it but i think it was a program comaparing anti tank weapons vrs tank armor.

Well if that's true, the Sabot should be modeled to have different damage values depending on distance.

Guerra norte wrote:Well if that's true, the Sabot should be modeled to have different damage values depending on distance.

It already does, just those distances don't typically come into play.

Good to hear!

now *ahem* my other questions.. lol.