Project Reality Forums

So I'm just brainstorming how we could get rid of the halo strafing and spraying in CQB. Earlier I thought descreasing the strafe speed, but that wasn't a good idea/realistic. Right now you can be pretty damn accurate at a short range while running sideways and full-auto with an AK. I really dont think that its modeled realistically. Shooting from the hip is really hard on full auto being that you dont have the weapon shoulder'd...thus the recoil has a more distinct effect on deviation...especially to the left or right...and DEFINITELY when you are running sideways! I do this all the time in PR's CQB and its DAMN effective, I can easily run through a mob of 3 guys sitting there in a nice defensive postion as I blast around the corner making grunting noises like rambo. I think we need to limit this, in real life I bet the % of bullets shot from the hip is VERY VERY low, but in PR is probably at least 20%. I'm not jumping to anything extreme, I think at point blank you should be able to kill someone, but as it is now....I can unload on a guy 30ft out and put a couple of hits on him...especially if I have the Support gun **insert double rambo grunts+yell**. Even if we have to make the "shooting from the hip" slightly unrealistic to force more realistic firefights...then it should be done IMO. Right now its not realistic, this creates BIG TIME arcade strategies, and totally messes up the CQB mechanics. You basically get punished for having a good defensive position (sometimes)...because 2 guys can come flying around the corner guns blazing like a running rambo...hell even rambo didn't run full-auto spraying and killing guys. Its not like I'm saying its 100% more effective but its definitely WAY unrealistic and gives the arcade guys unfair advantage in the situation; it completely leaves the PR ideals of strategy and coordinated movements...once CQB starts you start really moving quickly and everyone blitzes like mad, which is ok I guess if your spec ops, but this is def not a standard CQB experience for regular soldiers. So I say, increase the bullet spread when shooting from the hip.

Im pretty sure this has been suggested before

You don't really shoot from hip at any point - you have the weapon shouldered, but not aiming.

Also, I am not a soldier/police officer/mercenary/well-trained terrorist, but I doubt you would use ironsights at close ranges in real life. At a certain range, you can just point the weapon at the enemy and fire without taking the time to align the sights. I doubt forcing people to line up their ironsights to shoot someone two feet in front of them would be very realistic.

daranz wrote:You don't really shoot from hip at any point - you have the weapon shouldered, but not aiming.

Also, I am not a soldier/police officer/mercenary/well-trained terrorist, but I doubt you would use ironsights at close ranges in real life. At a certain range, you can just point the weapon at the enemy and fire without taking the time to align the sights. I doubt forcing people to line up their ironsights to shoot someone two feet in front of them would be very realistic.

Like I said, I'm not jumping to an extreme. In my post I said shooting someone point blank (aka 2ft) or 10ft or whatever should still be effective. I do believe how ever that the accuracy should be reduced....especially whilst moving if its possible. I'm just brainstorming some options to fix the existing strafing CQB nonsense. But hey maybe I'm wrong and it is realistic...I def dont spend my days killing guys with a machine gun IRL

VipersGhost wrote:...I def dont spend my days killing guys with a machine gun IRL

And the military does?

eh...beats me chief.

daranz wrote:You don't really shoot from hip at any point - you have the weapon shouldered, but not aiming.

Also, I am not a soldier/police officer/mercenary/well-trained terrorist, but I doubt you would use ironsights at close ranges in real life. At a certain range, you can just point the weapon at the enemy and fire without taking the time to align the sights. I doubt forcing people to line up their ironsights to shoot someone two feet in front of them would be very realistic.

I agree. When you see clips of soldiers in Iraq they are usually looking down their sights...while engaging targets that are a fair istance away. Forcing you to use sights when you are within spitting distance of a guy is just pointless and unrealistic

bunny wrote:I agree. When you see clips of soldiers in Iraq they are usually looking down their sights...while engaging targets that are a fair istance away. Forcing you to use sights when you are within spitting distance of a guy is just pointless and unrealistic

Again, I'm not suggesting anything extreme like what you are mentioning...I dont think anyone would in the first place. Yes within very close range the old spray and pray should be just fine. But in standard CQB it should not...as it stands now, you can definitely spray and pray whilst wasting guys well outside of "spitting distance". I intentionally mention the "no extremes" for a reason, I'm not speaking in definitives like "If I'm 2ft from a guy and can piss on him, my bullets should still miss him completely" no....not at all. I just think they should have more spread. Yes in IRL I do think that if you are running very quickly sideways that it would still be difficult to kill someone (AK47) full-auto within 15 ft....2ft no...but 15 ft,heck ya it'd be tough...not impossible but its not a sure kill. That gun kicks like a mule on full auto and if you are running sideways and blazing away...I bet you'd get REAL inaccurate quick. Right now its a piece of cake though, and I know I'm not that good. I've seen guys IRL fumble a gun after shooting it standing still...let alone FULL AUTO 7.62 round AK whilst running sideways...its just stupid and shouldn't be so damn prevelant in the game. Its the only thing in the game thats concurrent with Quake and Unreal Tournmant....and there shouldn't be any of those elements in this game. Come on dude, not even rambo does that...literally, watch his movies Of course if you are shooting a few shots a time, hip shooting is fine and accurate...but full auto AK, is rediculously inaccurate. I found a forum qoute on a gun site.

"On full auto with an AK-47 you won't hit anything except maybe an airplane flying above you and to your left. I've fired a few clips on full rock-n-roll from both an AK-47 and an M-16. I can see where you could do it with practice on single shot from the hip though."

Probably not very practical but It might be more realistic (I think) 2 have two zoom modes for all weapons e.g.:

Weapon at hips: Un-zoomed normal view no movement restrictions

Weapon shouldered: Not zoomed, much greater control without sights being used, impedes movement slightly, much more screen taken up by weapon but not as much as Iron sighted/Scoped view.

Aiming: Regular Ironsight/Scoped View with regular movement resrictions.

Not sure how you'd adapt the control system for this, maybe having multiple zoom modes or using different keys maybe if possible.

Something like this would allow for much greater loss of control when firing from the hip and to have some middle ground between a good view with horrible accuracy and very limited view with much better accuracy which is very ineffective for close range combat.

Hey, this is a good idea! What if it was treated just like a zoom on a sniper rifle. You click once and it shoulders your gun....and you click again you look down the iron sites. This could fix the "prone-flopers" problem too! No just insta-prone and shooting...now they at least have to shoulder the gun first. I think its very realistic., semi-simulating the action of bringing the gun up and then pulling up to the sites.

Just thought I'd post to get some attention toward my amazing idea hahahah

I do think if it were done properly it could allow the devs to sort some stuff out in relation to random kills with automatic fire from the hip (i.e. by making it impossible )

Good suggestion, but what if you wanted to go straight to your iron sights? In real life, you can shoulder the weapon and go to the iron sights in one fluid motion.

And as far as firing from the hip, Marines for example don't use that tactic. Now insurgents with AK-47s, that's another story.

well, IRL its not instant...you could just tap the button twice to get to the sites. And yeah AK's def fire from the hip...but only a few rounds at a time while watching where their shots hit....few people are going to be able to hit anythinig with an AK on full auto and moving unless its really close.

Shoting without ironsight ok for me, shooting during strafing/moving/going prone its not ok. This game should give advantage to guy who is already steady aiming not to guy who is running, strafing from left to right, jumps 2 times goes prone and kills you. So increasing spread a lot during moving would happy me even more .

Btw. Latly I saw lots of guys standing from prone and shooting instantly, its some kind of makro or what? I can't shoot for a good second after I stand up from prone...

I know people don't shoot from the hip but it is necessary for it to be there when your running around. Plus, I would of thought at least, there would be rare occasions where it might need to be done i.e. when you see someone run around a corner 2ft away from you and you don't have time to shoulder your weapon.

I realise it'd be annoying to have to double tap to get ironsights up, that why I suggest perhaps having another key for shouldering/use of sights. In my opinion it would make more sense for the shouldering to be right mouse button, because using your sights isn't something you need as a reflex action.

Canadian Forces train for "Reflex shooting" where you, WITHOUT using the sights, fire a few rounds in single shot to hit a target. When that guy in Afghanistan got smoked in his dome piece with an Axe, the 3 soldiers that fire, all shot without sites but with the weapon up and hit him 14 times. I think if you're trained as a rifleman, you should be fairly *note fairly, not extremely, not very good...fairly* good at hitting a close target without sights. Therefor I say keep it as it is. To be a nit-picker, the models all have their rifles shouldered so techinically they're shooting "reflexively" when not down the iron sights.

maybe we could just increase the recoil effect so full auto is modeled more realistically. I do agree single and bursts should be reasonably accurate and I wouldn't mind get killed like that...its the full auto Unreal Tournament style CQB that bugs me...its removes a lot of real life tactics from the game and gives advantages/disadvantages to the wrong parties in many situations.

pr's recoil is like 1-1.5 unzoomed

and when ur zoomed u get 90 percent of that so ur 10 precent less recoil

solution

make unzoomed recoil higher
and zoomed percentagle lower. so u reduce recoil when zoomed=)

I'd really like to see some of the Dev coders input on this, yeah its just for my selfish gain but I think its one of the most serious issues effecting gameplay and would like to see some internal discussion...but thats just me complaining Maybe its already been fixed.

Personally I think the issue is not iron-sights versus shouldered versus from the hip. I think the main issue is movement; if you're running at full tilt I don't imagine you would hit anything unless you were at absolutely point blank range. In other realism shooters that specialise in CQB (such as the Rainbow Six series) if you're moving, you'll almost certainly miss. Walking should be a serious accuracy penalty for CQB, and running should basically be "forget it". However when you stop moving your aim should probably recover quite quickly.